He is clearly ignoring the context and the fact that it was Jesus who brought up the idea of work or labor
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Christ's blessed atonement is comprehensive and complete. Christ makes a person "at one" (atone) with God. Christ fully, not limited, but completely atones (covers) the sins of us, His own people. Your "Why have you ignored your own confession? limited atonement is a false doctrine" doesn't make sense.
You wrote "Mat 15:9 says nothing about free will - that is eisegesis", but God has me specifically reference the traditions of man that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9). Two realns exist and there is no third - there is the Word of God about Heaven or there is the traditions of man about hell. The traditions of men includes free-will because no Holy Scripture indicates that God imparted man with the ability to choose Christ, so man's heart must add ("eisegesis") free-will into the Word of God resulting in things like the following.
According to free-willian philosophers, Christ atones for absolutely everybody everywhere in all time resulting in Christ's atonement miserably failing for every single unbeliever which further results in Christ himself being an abject failure. Do not be deceived, the free-willian tradition of men has Christ's precious shed Blood atone for the sins of persons doomed eternally in hell.
According to the Truth (John 14:6), God's beautiful Plan of Redemption by Christ has the Christ's atonement apply exclusively to persons whom Christ chooses (John 15:16-19); therefore, Christ is always successful in his gracious and loving work of atonement:
The Lord YHWH has opened My ear (Isaiah 50:5).
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand (John 10:27-28).
You mock the Sovereignty of God, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1).
It is written:
I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever;
For His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
And His kingdom endures from generation to generation.
All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
But He does according to His will in the host of heaven
And among the inhabitants of earth;
And no one can ward off His hand
Or say to Him, "What have You done?"
(Daniel 4:34-35)
But YOU publicly stated "Dan 4:34, 35 does not tell us God determines everything", so your heart conveys:
I blessed the LESS THAN Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever;
For His dominion is a FRACTURED dominion,
And His kingdom endures NOT from generation to generation.
All the inhabitants of the earth CONTROL GOD,
But He does NOT according to His will in the host of heaven
NOR among the inhabitants of earth;
And EVERY one can ward off His hand
AND TOML SAYS to Him, "What have You done?"
(the tradition of TomL and ceased to be Daniel 4:34-35)
Every one who God causes to transfer from unbeliever to believer in Christ (John 6:29) is a part of true Israel (Romans 9:6, Romans 11:17-27).
Let's review just how you refer to the Word of God.
You wrote "That statement fails on the face of it" very specifically about the Christ's saying ""I was sent only to those being lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24); therefore, you do not believe Christ's words, and the Christ refers to such unbelief of the world with "if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world" (John 12:47).
@civic, you are united with TomL because you heartily agree with your Like of TomL's post.
Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE MOST HIGH GOD WHO REIGNS SECURELY!!!
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civic
Well-known member
Nothing but presuppositions ie eisegesis of the texts.
Rockson
Well-known member
How about you say ones who believe God created man in LOVE with true genuine liberty to choose.
One is NEVER a failure when they stay in the realm of LOVE. Ones who choose not to receive the goodness and grace of God are ones who failed themselves. God is never a failure for staying in LOVE.
Rockson
Well-known member
Sorry but there is absolutely nothing beautiful in any way shape or form with how Calvinists view the character of God. It takes the kind loving gracious character of God who does not show partiality and swings the total opposite direction.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Yeah, some of us grew out of the image of God as Santa Claus who keeps track of your good and bad deeds but loves you so much he'll bring you presents anyway.
Your first problem is scripture
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
It clearly shows Christ dying for more than the limited numbers your theology posits
Your second problem is your failure to understand the provisional nature of atonement
Its design is to save all that believe
John 3:16–18 (NASB 2020) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
It succeeds in doing that, so that any failure belongs to the man who does not believe
Allow scripture to correct your faulty doctrine and understanding
Um you should mean according to scripture Christ died on behalf of all men. So that the believing ones may not perish but have eternal life
Fact is Christ blood was shed even for Judas
Luke 22:14–23 (ESV) — 14 And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. 15 And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, “Take this, and divide it among yourselves. 18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. 21 But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table. 22 For the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom he is betrayed!” 23 And they began to question one another, which of them it could be who was going to do this.
Any failure here is on the part of man who refuses to believe
So it behooves you to obtain a biblical theology
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You wrote "you cannot leave out of all mankind" with respect to the word "world", so you, TomL, include as part of "the whole world" yourself as per the Apostle John's writing of "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19) - that is self-condemnatory.
We God's chosen (elect) are a part of the world before God delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son (Colossians 1:13) for it is written "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come" (Revelation 17:8), so the name of every single one of God's elect (chosen) persons is known prior to the birth of anyone of us God's chosen (God's elect) persons.
In the continuation of this post, you can find Spiritual Truth (John 14:6):
Context in the New Testament Establishes the Meaning of the Greek Word κόσμος/Kosmos (World)
Context in the New Testament Establishes the Meaning of the Greek Word κόσμος/Kosmos (World)
The word "world" possesses a variety of definitions in scripture, and the context of the word "world" generally sets the definition.
The Greek word κόσμος (kosmos, Strong's 2889 - world) translates to "world".
The Word "World" in Ephesians 1:1-14
Paul mentions "before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4) in the passage.
The "world" as used by Paul here indicates all the earth and all that is in it.
Paul refers to the time before the earth ("world") was created.
The word "world" in Ephesians 1:4 is the earth and all that is in the earth.
The Word "World" in John 3:16 (John 3:14-16)
The first order is to look at Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:
"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).
The second order is to examine the history of "the serpent in the wilderness" that Jesus mentions (see John 3:14):
Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.
(Numbers 21:8-9)
The third order is to listen to the Master.
Jesus sets "the serpent in the wilderness" "lifted up" in relation to "the Son of Man" "lifted up" (all in John 3:14).
Jesus then states "so that every believing will in" Jesus "have eternal life" (John 3:15), but He intensifies this statement by repeating it right away.
Jesus continues with "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16), and here is where Jesus mentions "world".
Jesus follows up with intensifying his prior declaration (John 3:15) with "that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
The fourth order is to acknowledge the Master's words.
Jesus mentioned "the serpent in the wilderness", so by this He brings up the account of the bronze serpent (John 3:16 includes Numbers 21:8-9).
The relation that Jesus set between the bronze serpent lifted up and Himself lifted up bears significance upon the population of persons that Jesus establishes for the word "world" in John 3:16.
For the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).
Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world" (John 3:16).
Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every one" (John 3:16, note that the singular (not plural) Greek word pas [Strongs 3956] translates accurately as "every one" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous "whosoever" [KJV] or "whoever" [NASB]).
Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing" (John 3:16).
Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life" (John 3:16).
God told Moses that a person bitten by one of the serpents "will live" when the person looks at "the serpent in the wilderness".
Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" (Numbers 21:8) and the results of the bronze serpent that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness".
In other words, the population of persons associated with living by looking at "the serpent in the wilderness" was restricted to ONLY the bitten persons that looked at the bronze serpent. For simplicity, I'll call this the "population of bitten look livers".
Furthermore, there is a different population of persons. This population of persons are not in the "population of bitten look livers". For example, this population of persons could include bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" after the "the serpent in the wilderness" was set on a pole/standard (Numbers 21:9). As another example, this population of persons certainly includes bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" due to the many people of Israel (Numbers 21:6) who were dead before God Almighty commanded Moses to make the "the serpent in the wilderness" "and set it on a standard" (Numbers 21:8). This population of persons I'll call the "population of bitten-non-lookers".
Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16). There was the "population of bitten look livers"; meanwhile, there was the "population of bitten-non-lookers".
Jesus utilized a comparator in which a group of many persons in the "population of bitten-non-lookers" were incapable of looking at the "the serpent in the wilderness" because that subset of people were dead prior to Moses fashioning the bronze serpent (Numbers 21:9), so Jesus sets the same standard for a subset of persons in the "world" (John 3:16) because that group of people are incapable of seeing King Jesus (John 3:3-8).
God requires for persons to believe in Jesus in order to be granted eternal life by God (John 3:15, John 3:16).
So, it follows, when Lord Jesus says "God so loved the world" (John 3:16), then specifically He is saying God loves the ones who will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
This relation set by Jesus establishes that the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:14-16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.
The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.
Before and after saying "world", Jesus establishes the requirement of believing in Jesus in order for persons to be in the population of persons granted eternal life by God.
Jesus, the Word of God, says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
Jesus defines righteous faith/belief such that a person believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29).
Jesus attributes a complete package, a whole gift, a finished work which He refers to as "that you believe in Him whom He has sent".
God deposits "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" in a person as a complete, sufficiently functioning work by God unto salvation of the person with nothing additional by the person as necessary, no choice by the person, no work of a decision by the person, no acceptance by the person, nothing by the person to achieve salvation.
So, "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" is a complete thing with nothing more to add by the person to the righteous faith/belief deposited by God unto being saved from the wrath of God.
Jesus clearly explains that the "believe in Him whom He has sent" is locked inside of the "you" specified by Jesus (John 6:29).
This "locking" is "the work of God" for God secures all of God's own persons unto eternal life (John 10:27-29).
The whole pagkage is done, finished, and complete.
There is nothing more "to be done" by the "you" with the finished package in order to obtain the gift of eternal life in God.
Thus, the only persons with righteous faith/belief implanted by God for a person's salvation are in the population of persons with eternal life in God (John 6:29, John 3:16).
The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.
When self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) define the "world" in John 3:16 as everyone everywhere without exception, then such persons assert that the Truth (Jesus - John 14:6) tells a lie. The deception results because such persons have Jesus losing persons eternally in spite of Him saying "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28).
The "no one" in "no one will snatch them out of My hand" means no one, not the devil, not the person himself or herself, not another person. The "no one" means absolutely NO ONE.
If the word "world" in John 3:16 includes the population of persons who die while in disbelief/unfaith, then God lost some persons to eternal punishment instead of eternal life.
Since believing in the Son of God whom God the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29) and no one will snatch a God rooted believer out of Jesus' hand (John 10:28), then the population of persons represented by the word "world" by Jesus as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:16) must of necessity be only persons who currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus unto eternal life in God.
The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of believers, God's chosen persons, existing or yet to be ONLY.
The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
The Word "World" in The Book of the First Letter of John (1 John 2:2, 1 John 5:19)
The Apostle John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world" (1 John 2:2).
The Apostle John also wrote "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).
Notice "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author.
Since free-will supporting persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) say "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 means every person everywhere can choose salvation, then such persons interpretation of "the whole world" has such free-will supporting persons themselves as part of "the whole world" lying in the evil one per 1 John 5:19.
The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one.
Because John wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), then this means Christians are beyond the evil one; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one.
This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include the children of God for we are Christians.
This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include every person everywhere because Christians are not included.
This means that free-will supporting persons have not overcome the evil one since such free-will supporting persons include themselves in "the whole world" thus including themselves as lying in the evil one.
The "lies" or "lying" in the evil one is similar to "abides" or "abiding" in the evil one, so there is a tight relationship between such free-will supporting persons and the evil one.
The English word "lies" in 1 John 2:2 derives from the Greek word "κεῖται" (Strong's 2749 - keimai - to be laid, lie) which specifically means "lay".
This means that free-will supporting persons are not Christians, and it is the free-will supporting persons definition of "world" that effectually makes such free-will supporting persons Non-Christians, that is, unbelievers.
This also means the word "world" does not have to mean every person everywhere when the word "world" is used in the Bible.
These two different meanings for the word "world", "the whole world", occur in one book of the New Testament.
It is time to return to 1 John 2:2.
- John was writing to God's own people in the Book of the First Letter of John (1 John), so the context is believers, John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 2:2) - that "our" and the upcoming "ours" are believers, so continuing on with that which John wrote "and not for ours only, but also for the whole world".
- A believer reading 1 John 2:2 knows that God converted the believer from "the whole world" into the "our" of God's assembly of believers (Matthew 18:3), yet an unbeliever who reads 1 John 2:2 considers Jesus' sacrifice foolishness (1 Corinthians 2:14); therefore, the phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 is such that "the whole world" refers to the chosen persons of God (John 15:16, John 15:19) who God is yet to work faith/belief in the Son of God whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
- The phrase "{b]the whole world[/b]" in 1 John 2:2 refers only to the chosen persons of God (John 15:16, John 15:19) who are yet to be imparted the work of God which is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29); otherwise, the phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 results in everyone everywhere being saved from the wrath of God, a.k.a. universalism, yet universalism is deception because the Word of God says "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 7:21) thus Jesus indicates that some people do not enter heaven which means those people go to hell (Matthew 25:41).
- The phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 refers only persons yet to become part of Israel, the true Israel (Romans 9:6) and persons grafted into Israel (Romans 11:11-36), for the Word of God says "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24).
In 1 John 2:2, the word "world" does not include persons that currently have been imparted the work of God, faith/belief, in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29) because John led with "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only", so John uses "our" for exclusively current believers and John uses "world" for exclusively future believers.
The word "world" in 1 John 2:2 is the population of persons who are yet to be imparted the work of God that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
The word "world" in 1 John 5:19 is the population of persons who have NOT been imparted the work of God that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29), and this population of persons includes persons that will not be imparted faith/belief before such persons die.
Behold, the two different populations of persons represented by "world" in the Book of the First Letter of John (1 John).
Conclusion About The Word "World" in The New Testament Books
The word "world" has four different meanings in the above passages.
The word "world" does not of necessity need to be defined as "all the people that are in it".
The word "world" in the New Testament Books is generally defined by the context around the word.
The absolute Truth (John 14:6) is that the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!
Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!
Your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) breaks the comparison that the Truth (John 14:6) establishes as recorded in John 3 shown in:
Context in the New Testament Establishes the Meaning of the Greek Word κόσμος/Kosmos (World)
Your wrote "the point of comparison is what happens upon the lifting up. Upon it all may either look to or believe upon the lifted atonement", so your spirit accuses me of twisting "of course scripture" by adding to Lord Jesus Christ's words, so let's test your spirit (1 John 4:1).
Believers who died looking forward to the Christ existed before Christ made atonement in His Blood on the cross for it is written "The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised" (Matthew 27:52); therefore, Christ's atonement extends to the "world" (John 3:16) before Christ was "lifted up" (John 3:14) on the cross, so your spirit's "by attempting to comopare it to the period before the atonement was set up you twist Christs comparison" is Spiritually false!
At the time the Blessed Voice from Heaven said "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5, the transfiguration, "LISTEN TO HIM"), the Apostle Matthew explains that "behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with" Lord Jesus Christ, and this is the same Moses who died and was buried by God on Mount Nebo - the same Moses who before he died "lifted up" "the serpent in the wilderness" more than 1,000 years before Jesus mentions "the serpent in the wilderness" (see John 3:14); therefore, Christ's atonement extends to the "world" (John 3:16) before Christ was "lifted up" (John 3:14) on the cross, so your spirit's "Your theology is built upon one falsehood after another" is Spiritually false!
Essentially, the above means that Christ includes the many people of Israel (Numbers 21:6) who were dead before God Almighty commanded Moses to make the "the serpent in the wilderness" "and set it on a standard" (Numbers 21:8) in His blessed saying of:
"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
(John 3:14-16).
Your heart makes false statements about God. Freewill is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!
The obvious difference there was an atonement they could look forward to.
There was no atonement t pre-planned for the snake bitten
Yes Context determines meaning. Whole world in the quote verse refers to the all opposed to God which is a common meaning
world system — the people constituting the world whose values, beliefs, and morals are in distinction and rebellion to God’s. Related Topic: World.
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).
7. the world, and everything that belongs to it, appears as that which is hostile to God, i.e. lost in sin, wholly at odds w. anything divine, ruined and depraved
William Arndt, F. Wilbur Gingrich, et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.
Then you have a colossal problem resulting from you including yourself in "the whole world" in the Apostle John's writing "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19) as per your writing of "Yes" because the Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one.
Because John wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), then this means Christians are beyond the evil one; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one.
This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include the children of God for we are Christians.
This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include every person everywhere because Christians are not included.
This means that free-will supporting persons have not overcome the evil one since such free-will supporting persons include themselves in "the whole world" thus including themselves as lying in the evil one.
Do not forget, you wrote "you cannot leave out of all mankind" with respect to the word "world", so you, TomL, include as part of "the whole world" yourself as per the Apostle John's writing of "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19) - and you wrote "Yes" to this - that is self-condemnatory.
We God's chosen (elect) are a part of the world before God delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son (Colossians 1:13) for it is written "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come" (Revelation 17:8), so the name of every single one of God's elect (chosen) persons is known prior to the birth of anyone of us God's chosen (God's elect) persons.
In the continuation of this post, you can find Spiritual Truth (John 14:6):
Context in the New Testament Establishes the Meaning of the Greek Word κόσμος/Kosmos (World)
Your "The obvious difference there was an atonement they could look forward to" does not negate the inclusion of time before, during, and after for both occurrence of "lifted up" in the comparison that Jesus makes in:
As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).
Furthermore, you have a colossal problem because you cannot "look to or believe upon the lifted atonement" for Christ is RISEN! He is not on the cross anymore, yet you CREATED the rule that eliminates "the period before the atonement was (lifted) up" which must of necessity eliminate all time afterward when the "lifted up" was no longer there, and you weren't there to see Him when He was lifted up, so you are not among the audience of the people who "look to or believe upon the lifted atonement" according to YOUR rules (your rules are recorded in post #1,116).
In Truth (John 14:6), you cannot believe in the Christ who was lifted up apart from the work of God for the Word of God declares "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), and the only human way to get the work of man in the pure Word of God is for man to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).
This current post is in conjunction with this post where the Word of God plants Spiritual Truth (John 14:6):
Context in the New Testament Establishes the Meaning of the Greek Word κόσμος/Kosmos (World)
Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!
Rockson
Well-known member
John 3:16 DOES mean the whole world though even by how you've defined something here. You've just quoted that the whole world lies in the evil one! So God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him has eternal life.
Nope the parallel passage to
John 3:14–18 (NASB 2020) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 12:47–48 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day.
Shows any sinner is included in the word World
Your claims suffer from poor exegesis which fails to allow scripture to interpret scripture
further, your so-called colossal problem is merely a figment of your imagination. As we are not told to look upon Christ on the cross but to believe on him
and quoting your oft rebutted appeal to John 6:29 accomplishes nothing
John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)
This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.
Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.
The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?
29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1
1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.
τὰ ἔργα τοῦ θεοῦ must not be taken to mean ‘the works which God works,’ but, as in Jer. 48:10 (31:10 LXX): 1 Cor. 15:58, the works well pleasing to God.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 760–761.
Yeshua-Jesus is telling them how to receive eternal life. The people then ask Yeshua-Jesus, [57]“What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” The response of the people is referring to how they can work and receive eternal life which is salvation. Yeshua-Jesus sets the record straight by answering, [58]“This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” In other words, Yeshua-Jesus tells them that if they want to do the works of God for eternal life then believe in him who God sent. That is the work needed for salvation, believe him, Yeshua-Jesus. Yeshua-Jesus did not tell them that the works of God are only for those who are chosen or elected. Then the people, they want to see a sign so that they can believe in him.
John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee?
Garza, Dr. Al. Calvinism Challenged: How The Hebrew Bible, Jewish Sources, Jesus, The Apostles and Paul Refute Calvinism. . Sefer Press Publishing. Kindle Edition.
verse 28 defined the works of God as that which is required of man
and verse 30 clearly shows the Jews understood that they were to believe
There is absolutely no hint of any doctrine of a infused gift of faith
Your failure to address rebuttal here show your theology is busted as both Jesus and Paul refute it
No problem at all. You are merely expressing your desire
Lexicons and scripture clearly demonstrate a meaning of all that are opposed to God
starting with the lexicons you failed to address
Yes Context determines meaning. Whole world in the quote verse refers to the all opposed to God which is a common meaning
world system — the people constituting the world whose values, beliefs, and morals are in distinction and rebellion to God’s. Related Topic: World.
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).
7. the world, and everything that belongs to it, appears as that which is hostile to God, i.e. lost in sin, wholly at odds w. anything divine, ruined and depraved
William Arndt, F. Wilbur Gingrich, et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.
And scripture
The world knew not Christ (John 1:10).
The world hates Christ (John 7:7).
The world’s works are evil (John 7:7).
Unsaved Jews were of this world (John 8:23).
Satan is the prince of this world (John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11).
Christ’s own are distinguished from the world (John 13:1, 14:19, 22).
The world cannot receive the Holy Spirit (John 14:17).
The world hates the disciples (John 15:18, 17:14).
The disciples were not of the world (John 15:19, 17:16). The world brings tribulation (John 16:33).
The disciples were out of the World (John 17:6).
Christ prayed not for the world when he prayed for his own (John 17:9).
Christ is not of the world (John 17:16).
The world did not know God John (John 17:25)
as any and all oppose to God are subjects of God's soteriological design
John 12:47 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
When you start allowing the bible to interpret itself, you will find your Calvinist theology does not hold up
You wrote in your closing paragraphs "They obviously understood jesus to be saying what God requires of you is that you believe" about the people recorded in John 6:28-30 in order for you to justify your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) of adding to the Word of God resulting in “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (your word due to your post content).
Let's review the exchange:
they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform?"
(John 6:28-30)
The people failed to understand, just like you, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).
The Lord uses the continuing exchange to illumine their and your ignorance:
"Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world."
(John 6:31-33)
The people injected the work of man, again, with "Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness" (John 6:31) in a manner that @The Rogue Tomato astutely put it, "You're insisting that Jesus is somehow required to answer them according to their question. He is under no such obligation".
The Lord shifts the focus from man's purported control to God's Sovereign control, again, with “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world."
(John 6:32-33).
Behold, faith/belief is given by God without any contribution by man (John 6:29) and, in like manner, life is given by the bread of God without any contribution by man (John 6:32-33).
PRAISE JESUS FOR HIS LOVINGKINDNESS!!!
In Truth (John 14:6), the Christ of us Christians intensifies that God works man regarding saving faith/belief, not man working, but truly the Bread of Life (John 6:35) as exclusive Savior!
You had written "In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles", and Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) which means that your spirit's conveyance "In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles as apostles only" is Spiritually false in that your spirit conveys that the apostles are not chosen by Christ as friends (John 15:15-16), yet your "In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles" is absolutely true in that there is no choice by man whatsoever toward God.
Your remarks above confusedly contradict your "Again Christs choice was restricted to being of his apostles", the following illuminates the falsehood of your conveyance.
The same Apostle Paul who wrote 2 Corinthians 5:20 also wrote "when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace" (Galatians 1:15) and Paul wrote "Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us" (Ephesians 2:3-4), so Paul, chosen/elect by God for salvation, was formerly of the world, and this concept applies to the following.
As a reminder, the phrase "universal call" is mentioned not in 2 Corinthians 5:20.
Again, the "world" in the context of 2 Corinthians 5:19-20 is exclusively the people that God will convert into the children of God (future believers) because Paul is addressing specifically converts/believers (2 Corinthians 1:1), so 2 Corinthians 5:19-20 is constrained by 2 Corinthians 1:1.
In 2 Corinthians 5:20, Paul is addressing specifically converts/believers (2 Corinthians 1:1); therefore, Paul is not addressing unconverted/unbelievers. Anyone who responded to Paul is under "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so for one to be be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:20) is entirely dependent on "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).
Lord Jesus Christ says "many are summoned, but few are chosen" (the Word of God, Matthew 22:14).
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1), and in the parable (Matthew 22:2-14), the king represents God, and the king is seen by the guests in the wedding hall. This point is very relevant while reading on below.
The word "faith" or "belief" or "believe" occurs 0 (zero) times in the parable and meaning of the parable as recorded by the Apostle Matthew:
The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son. And he sent out his slaves to summon those who had been summoned to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come. Again he sent out other slaves saying, ‘Tell those who have been summoned, “Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast.”’ But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business, and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them. But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire. Then he said to his slaves, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were summoned were not worthy. ‘Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, summon to the wedding feast.’ Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests. But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, and he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless. Then the king said to the slaves, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ For many are summoned, but few are chosen.
(Matthew 22:2-14)
But look, you wrongly observed "consider the various choices here" regarding Matthew 22:2-14, but Lord Jesus mentioned not once anything about a man choosing anything about choosing to do the deed of "put on the wedding dress", so Christ's precious sayings of "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (the Word of God, John 3:21) transform by way of your quoted thoughts as "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in MAN” (the word of TomL).
But wait, there is even more falsehood in your "consider the various choices here" regarding Matthew 22:2-14. God causes faith/belief in His believers “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), but your quoted thoughts there result in "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the wicked word of TomL).
As recorded in post #1,116, you call "repeat garbage" this wonderful Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).
King Jesus conveys God's awesome and mighty exclusive control of choosing man unto man being saved from the wrath of God in this parable (Matthew 22:2-14) for this loving King says He chooses man with:
many are summoned, but few are chosen
(the Word of God, Matthew 22:14)
Yet, your "consider the various choices here" converted the King's blessed words into "many are summoned, but few CAUSE THEMSELVES TO BELIEVE" (the word of TomL).
Completey visible in your heart's treasure about Matthew 22:2-14 is that you reject Lord Jesus Christ's words about God's Sovereignty in the salvation of man, and the Lord says "he who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).
See, the punishment of the people who avoided the summons aa the King sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire (Matthew 22:7), so the King did not choose those people for salvation.
Moreover, the man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes (Matthew 22:11) was summoned by God's chosen people (Matthew 22:9-10), yet that man's sin was not covered by the Righteous Blood of Christ; in other words, the King did not choose that man for salvation because the king said to the slaves, "Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 22:13).
God alone provides the wedding dress for the Word of God declares "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood" (Luke 22:20) and "Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:56); moreover, "God is Love" (1 John 4:8) and "Love covers over a multitude of sins" (1 Peter 4:8).
God causes me to write "the King did not choose that man for salvation" because the Word of God says "many are summoned, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14) at the conclusion of the parable.
So, your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) "consider the various choices here" regarding Matthew 22:2-14 steals God's glory in the salvation of man and your heart places the glory for man's salvation squarely in man's "I chose Jesus", yet the Word of God declares "I am YHWH, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8).
Your thoughts are out of accord the Word of God recorded in Matthew 22:2-14 as demonstrated in the above.
You show no sign of repentance for your addition/subtraction from Revelation 22:17! In Revelation 22:17, the ONLY participants identified in the exchange are The Spirit and the Bride saying “Come.”. We are told of the presence of Holy God and the saints ("holy ones") only in Revelation 22:17. In your self will, you conveyed that unholy ones are present in Revelation 22:17, TomL, so you added to Revelation carries dire consequences (Revelation 22:18-19). Joe, you bound yourself to TomL's doctrine.
In 1 Corinthians 1:21, "believe" is governed by this blessedly wonderful Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)!
None of those passages that you quoted states that man can choose God unto salvation, so your spirit is clearly evident because your heart falsifies the Word of God (1 John 4:1).
The Word of God explicitly excludes man from being able to choose God unto salvation with Christ's powerful:
- "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
- "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
- "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
We Christians are blessed of God to be chosen by Lord Jesus without us being required to do any kind of work because the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation)! PRAISE BE TO THE LAMB OF GOD!!!
Sorry there was no addition
Jesus told them to work
The Jews asked how to work
Jesus replied by believing
The passage read in context interprets itself as was written
Christ chose his apostles according to scripture'
His disciples were given to him by the Father.
John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.
From them he chose 12 to be apostles
Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.
John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”
clearly Christ chose his apostles. He was not stated to choose his disciples which were given to him by the father
Ignoring scripture is not the way to uncover truth
Which is why even Calvinist commentator rebut your claim
Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.
But I chose you (ἀλλʼ ἐγω ἐξελεξαμην ὑμας [all’ egō exelexamēn humas]). First aorist middle indicative of ἐκλεγω [eklegō]. See this same verb and tense used for the choice of the disciples by Christ (6:70; 13:18; 15:19). Jesus recognizes his own responsibility in the choice after a night of prayer (Luke 6:13).11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 15:16.
again reference is made to
Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.
Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing
John 6:29 does not support you either
John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)
This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.
Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.
What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.
Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.
The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you
Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.
Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.
If there were any truth to your view Paul would not have responded as he did
Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
finally consider the reply of the Jews
John 6:28–30 (KJV 1900) — 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
They obviously understood jesus to be saying what God requires of you is that you believe
your views are contrary to scripture, contrary to context and contrary even to a number of Calvinist commentators and Greek exegetes
You have ignored the fact that the phrase work of God refers to what god requires of man it does not speak of what God does
Context and commentary refute you and discussing me does not change that
Rockson
Well-known member
Why is it that you keep running away and subtracting verse 27???
Do you think readers don't notice you're insistently doing this when you've been told clearly what it states or at least I've shown this to other Calvinists on here.
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, Jn 5:27
Don't tell us Tom is adding anything here.....You and your fellow Calvinists are subtracting from the passage and the text here clear and simple. There's no reason for you to cut off 27 and just report 28 and 29. I think logic must dictate that you just don't want the verse which qualifies everything even spoken of.
They were told by Jesus not to labor for one thing....but THEY were to labor for something else....THEY WERE. So I encourage you not to blatantly and willfully seek to change that, or at least READERS be aware of what they're seeking to do. As the saying goes it's seeking to pull the wool over your eyes.
