The people asked/injected their own work into the wrong place respecting salvation when they inquired "
What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God" (John 6:28), yet Christ rightly removed man's work from anyplace respecting salvation when He responded "
This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
Thus is Christ's powerful precious proclamation for we Christians!!!
Rockson, God has had me calmly engage self-willed, Holy Majesty reviling people (2 Peter 2:9-10) who yell and get violent face-to-face, so your "
you also KNOW that you'd never use words you do in the REAL world" is you bearing false witness. We'll see if you are capable of repentance and apology.
TomL, you are quite preoccupied with Calvinism; in contrast, as far as we Christians are concerned, our heart is enraptured in Christ Jesus our Lord and God who causes us to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent which is fruit of the Spirit of the Living God (Galatians 5:22). All glory to God alone for the salvation of man, amen!
Both of you corrupt the pure Word of God in your hearts such that "
This is NOT the work of God BUT IT IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (2 Opinions 6:29 by TomL and Rockson).
The Lord eliminates free will of man discerning the very Righteousness of God when He posed "
And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?" (Luke 12:57), so man's will is incapable of determining the "choosing" of God unto salvation; in reality, Christ alone chooses man unto salvation (John 15:16, John 15:19) with man being the blessed recipient of God's great work. Mere man is not superior to Jesus the Lord who says "
Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner'" (John 5:19) and again He mentions initiative in "
I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 5:30); on the other hand, self-willed free-willians (2 Peter 2:9-10) think they choose the Righteous One by their own initiative thus they deny the Word of God "
And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?" (Luke 12:57) and the free-willian philosophers heartily believe they are superior to Christ.
The Word of God explicitly excludes man from being able to choose God unto salvation with Christ's powerful:
- "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
- "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
- "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for free-willians to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (
Proverbs 30:6).
We Christians are blessed of God to be chosen by Lord Jesus without us being required to do any kind of work because the Word of God says "
you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ,
John 15:16) and "
I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ,
John 15:19, includes salvation)! PRAISE BE TO THE LAMB OF GOD!!!
Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!
Repeating yourself and ignoring context does not make for a strong argument
Verse 28 defines for us the works of God
John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”
as what are we to do'
. What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
That is, such things as God will approve. This was the earnest inquiry of men who were seeking to be saved. They had crossed the Sea of Tiberias to seek him; they supposed him to be the Messiah, and they sincerely desired to be taught the way of life; yet it is observable that they expected to find that way as other sinners commonly do—by their works. The idea of doing something to merit salvation is one of the last that the sinner ever surrenders.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.
John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)
This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth,
Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes,
Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.
Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent,
Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.
The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford,
Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
Messianic work.
28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v.
5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?
29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp.
Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on
1:8,
33,
4:47,
17:3.1
1 A. Plummer,
The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.
τὰ ἔργα τοῦ θεοῦ must not be taken to mean ‘the works which God works,’ but, as in
Jer. 48:10 (
31:10 LXX):
1 Cor. 15:58, the works well pleasing to God.11 Henry Alford,
Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 760–761.
and of course in reference to John 15:16
Christ's disciples were given to him by the Father
John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything which You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on the behalf of those whom You have given Me, because they are Yours; 10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11 I am no longer going to be in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, so that they may be one just as We are. 12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name, which You have given Me; and I guarded them, and not one of them perished except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
He did not choose them
Rather, from that group he chose his apostles
Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated,
Mar. 13:20;
Mat. 24:22,
24,
31;
Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See
Jn. 6:70; also
Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes,
Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.
But I chose you (ἀλλʼ ἐγω ἐξελεξαμην ὑμας [all’ egō exelexamēn humas]). First aorist middle indicative of ἐκλεγω [eklegō]. See this same verb and tense used for the choice of the disciples (apostles) by Christ (
6:70;
13:18;
15:19). Jesus recognizes his own responsibility in the choice after a night of prayer (
Luke 6:13).11 A.T. Robertson,
Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 15:16.
12 In these days he went out to the mountain to pray, and all night he continued in prayer to God. 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor11
The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Lk 6:12–16.
True, the subject now in hand is not the ordinary election of believers, by which they are adopted to be the children of God, but that special election, by which he set apart his disciples to the office of preaching the Gospel11 John Calvin and William Pringle,
Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 2; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 119.
16. οὐχ ὑμεῖς. Not ye chose Me, but I chose you. Ὑμεῖς and ἐγώ are emphatic. Ἐκλέγειν refers to their election to be Apostles (
6:70,
13:18;
Acts 1:2); therefore the aorist as referring to a definite act in the past should be preserved. So also ἔθηκα, I appointed you, i. e. assigned you to a definite post, as in
2 Tim. 1:11;
Heb. 1:2. This is better than ‘I ordained,’ as A. V. here and
1 Tim. 2:7, ‘ordain’ having become a technical term in ecclesiastical language. Comp.
Acts 13:47,
20:28;
1 Cor. 12:28. The repetition of ὑμεῖς throughout the verse emphasizes the personal responsibility of the Apostles.11 A. Plummer,
The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 286.
In John 15:16, Jesus is not talking about choosing people to salvation, nor is he speaking generally of believers. Rather, he is talking specifically of picking his apostles and preparing them for their ministry, all of which Jesus accomplished during his earthly ministry. There is nothing here about selecting people for salvation before creation.
Smelley, Hutson. Deconstructing Calvinism: A Biblical Analysis and Refutation (p. 184). Hutson Smelley. Kindle Edition.
Three other times we read of Christ choosing
Each time it refers to choosing his apostles
John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”
John 13:18 (ESV) — 18 I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’
day
you have ignored the overall context of scripture and isolated John 15:16 to propagate your theology
