An Article on free will

[GodsGrace]

This is such a load of nonsense.

What does John 12:32 SAY and what does it MEAN?

That was the issue. You want to discuss EVERYTHING EXCEPT that one verse.

It means that Jesus will draw all men to Himself.
Jews and Gentiles.
It is done now through the visibility of Jesus
and through preaching what He taught.

YOU brought up some guy names Itz something or other born in the 1400's.
I explained that he could still be saved.

YOU brought up John 6:44, so I replied to that too.

 

[atpollard]

Goodbye,
Edit by Admin I have no idea what to do with that.

It means that Jesus will draw all men to Himself.
Jews and Gentiles.
It is done now through the visibility of Jesus
and through preaching what He taught.

On the one hand, you claim that EVERYONE is drawn to Jesus and saved through the preaching of what he taught.

YOU brought up some guy names Itz something or other born in the 1400's.
I explained that he could still be saved.

On the other hand, you claim that even people that have never heard of Jesus can be saved ... even though EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION will be drawn to Jesus [Per John 12:32].

... and you have no problem with that innate self-contradiction. It is ME who has a problem for asking "so which is it? Are some saved without being drawn to Jesus (meaning John 12:32 is not saying they will all be drawn to Jesus) or MUST everyone without exception (including those that never heard of Jesus) be drawn to Jesus and be saved (or reject his offer)?"

YOU brought up John 6:44, so I replied to that too.

In John 6:44, Jesus clearly states "No one can come to me unless the Father draws them" and YOU insist those words really mean "Everyone must come to Jesus because God draws every person without exception". What you claim John 6:44 says is simply NOT what it says. Read the words on the page of YOUR bible for yourself. They say what they say and you twist them to mean the opposite of what they say.

This is not "disagreement". You are living in an alternate reality where "no one" means "everyone" and people are drawn to someone they never heard of (or not, as the mood suits you).

I find it frustrating and unproductive.

 

[GodsGrace]

Goodbye,
You talk out of both sides of your mouth and I have no idea what to do with that.

On the one hand, you claim that EVERYONE is drawn to Jesus and saved through the preaching of what he taught.


On the other hand, you claim that even people that have never heard of Jesus can be saved ... even though EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION will be drawn to Jesus [Per John 12:32].

... and you have no problem with that innate self-contradiction. It is ME who has a problem for asking "so which is it? Are some saved without being drawn to Jesus (meaning John 12:32 is not saying they will all be drawn to Jesus) or MUST everyone without exception (including those that never heard of Jesus) be drawn to Jesus and be saved (or reject his offer)?"


In John 6:44, Jesus clearly states "No one can come to me unless the Father draws them" and YOU insist those words really mean "Everyone must come to Jesus because God draws every person without exception". What you claim John 6:44 says is simply NOT what it says. Read the words on the page of YOUR bible for yourself. They say what they say and you twist them to mean the opposite of what they say.

This is not "disagreement". You are living in an alternate reality where "no one" means "everyone" and people are drawn to someone they never heard of (or not, as the mood suits you).

I find it frustrating and unproductive.

You apparently have comprehension problems and I'm too complex for your mind.

Only one thing to do when Biblical concepts are so difficult to understand....:

Au revois.

 

[GodsGrace]

Goodbye,
You talk out of both sides of your mouth and I have no idea what to do with that.

On the one hand, you claim that EVERYONE is drawn to Jesus and saved through the preaching of what he taught.

You REALLY do not comprehend.

I NEVER stated that everyone will be drawn And saved by Jesus.

These misunderstandings happen because you do not accept what the word DRAW means.

You prefer to believe the definition given by the reformed.

so be it.
Not my problem.

On the other hand, you claim that even people that have never heard of Jesus can be saved ... even though EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION will be drawn to Jesus [Per John 12:32].

Yes.
Even persons that have never heard of Jesus can be saved.

Bye.

... and you have no problem with that innate self-contradiction. It is ME who has a problem for asking "so which is it? Are some saved without being drawn to Jesus (meaning John 12:32 is not saying they will all be drawn to Jesus) or MUST everyone without exception (including those that never heard of Jesus) be drawn to Jesus and be saved (or reject his offer)?"


In John 6:44, Jesus clearly states "No one can come to me unless the Father draws them" and YOU insist those words really mean "Everyone must come to Jesus because God draws every person without exception". What you claim John 6:44 says is simply NOT what it says. Read the words on the page of YOUR bible for yourself. They say what they say and you twist them to mean the opposite of what they say.

This is not "disagreement". You are living in an alternate reality where "no one" means "everyone" and people are drawn to someone they never heard of (or not, as the mood suits you).

I find it frustrating and unproductive.

 

[Administrator]

Let not be rude to each other.

This is what we are about and why we started BAM:

Members of Berean Apologetic Ministry forum are considerate, motivated by love and not hate, and they respect one another. Because our members are considerate, loving, and respectful, they do not make overly provocative posts, posts which seek to annoy or cause disruption, or posts which personally attack other members out of anger and frustration.

Our members desire to contribute in a positive and loving manner so that this Forum will display the gracious love of God. The above motto on our forum is for the benefit of this community to have a safe place where all faiths and people are welcomed to ask questions, receive answers and express their views freely without hinderance or concern of retaliation. We value your religious freedoms of expression and ideas.

Thread 'The Rules'

Jul 14, 2023

Members of Berean Apologetic Ministry forum are considerate, motivated by love and not hate, and they respect one another. Because our members are considerate, loving, and respectful, they do not make overly provocative posts, posts which seek to annoy or cause disruption, or posts which personally attack other members out of anger and frustration.

Our members desire to contribute in a positive and loving manner so that this Forum will display the gracious love of God. The above motto on our forum is for the benefit of this community to have a safe place where all faiths and people are...

• Administrator
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Our Guidelines

• 

 

[synergy]

1. "is not my opinion. It is the word of God": You did not present any verses when you made your blanket statement, so the "attitude" of your last post is unwarranted. It was appropriate of me to demand Scripture to back up your opinions before considering them.
2. How do you reconcile this with: Romans 10:14-15 [ESV] How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" ... Did Paul just get it wrong and the HOLY SPIRIT was going to bring the news without needing to send anyone?

In Trinitarian Theology there is no contradiction between John 16:7-8 and Rom 10:14-15. The Holy Spirit, the word of God, and Preachers all work together for the salvation of people. I'm happy to introduce you to basic Trinitarian realities as recorded in John 16:7-8.

1. Itzcoatl died in 1440, so Jesus was "lifted up" 1400 years before Itzcoatl died. The Gospel arrived in the Americas after 1490. How was Itzcoatl "drawn" to Jesus as he offered his living victims to honor his winged snake god?

Not everyone drawn comes to believe in God. The Bible tells us that all people just need to look to nature to know that there is a benevolent God and that they should act and treat everyone accordingly. Read Rom.1:18-23 which sounds tailor made for people like Itzcoatl.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Are you actually advocating that Jesus was being literal? Peter was Satan and the Snake in the Garden became an Apostle?

As first Pope and progenitor of the evil that came out of Rome in his name ... I am tempted to agree. However, I think that Jesus was making a different point.

Of course Peter was not literally satan. I'm just pointing out how people were called worse than children of wrath and yet they're presently saved and present in Heaven.

 

[Kermos]

2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died;

Is the love of Christ spoken about there, the love that Christ has for us or our love that we have for Christ. I would argue that the love which controls us is our love for Christ.

God is love (1 John 4:16) and love is from God (1 John 4:7) and Jesus is God (John 1:1).

Your linguistics are broken. The inflective Greek grammar for the sentence the love of Christ controls us (2 Corinthians 5:14) requires that the grammatical possessive associate Christ as the possessor of love which exerts the action of controls upon the direct object of us.

Your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) must obliterate semantics and grammar in order for you to demote the love of Christ into your "man self-will loving Christ". Ungodly wrong is on the left and Godly right is on the right:

the word of Jim		The Word of God
For our love of Christ controls us (2 Jim 5:14).		For the love of Christ controls us (2 Corinthians 5:14).

Your broken linguistics results in your deception about exalting man into the controller of God; in other words, you believe man dictates who is saved from the wrath of God according to your heart's free-will treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21).

Moreover, that verse rejects your view of limited atonement. It says that all have died and one, i.e., Jesus Christ, has died for all.

I believe Christ's atonement is complete. You view of my belief are not a match.

Here is the result of your heart's 2 Corinthians 5:14's all being Jesus Christ, has died for all people everywhere in all time. According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents an example of persons in relation to God:

• God brought salvation to Tom, independently before Tom heard of God. Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, so God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• God brought salvation to Nancy, independently before Nancy heard of God. Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, so God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
• The conclusion: Christ's finished salvation succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ's finished salvation failed in saving Nancy of the world.

So, you free-willians believe in Christ's failure atonement since people like Nancy end up in hell while simultaneously being among the all having Christ's salvation.

See where your free-willian philosophy leads you against the Apostle Paul's Sovereignty of God, ungodly wrong is on the left and Godly Truth (John 14:6) is on the right:

the word of Jim		The Word of God
For our love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but all the dead free-will choose to live for Him who died and rose again on their behalf (2 Jim 5:14-15).		For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf (2 Corinthians 5:14-15).

Yet another crash and burn of your free-willian philosophy.

In Truth (John 14:6), the all referenced in 2 Corinthians 5:14 must be the persons whom God exclusively chooses for the Word of God declares “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).

God did not, cannot, create evil.

Ungodly wrong is on the left and Godly right is on the right:

the word of Jim		The Word of God
God did not, cannot, create evil (Jim 45:7).		I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I, YHWH, do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7)

When Jesus told us to enter through the narrow gate because that gate leads to life. That statement rejects your claim that it is the regenerated that enters the narrow gate. That narrow gate obviously is the gate to being regenerated. Thus the command to enter that gate must be given to someone who has not yet entered and been regenerated.

You missed the critical point that you wrote "Your view of such things is apparently that God created this world mostly to condemn humans to hell" (proof post #9,235) with the connotation that you do not believe Lord Jesus Christ who declares few enter through the small gate that leads to Life with His word of "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
" (Matthew 7:13-14).

CHRIST'S WORDS ARE LIFE. God has caused me to quote to you “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63) clear back in post #7,874 which nullifies your "When Jesus told us to enter through the narrow gate because that gate leads to life. That statement rejects your claim that it is the regenerated that enters the narrow gate. That narrow gate obviously is the gate to being regenerated. Thus the command to enter that gate must be given to someone who has not yet entered and been regenerated" even before you composed your thought.

And do not forget, Jim, that your words of "Your view of such things is apparently that God created this world mostly to condemn humans to hell" (proof post #9,235) also connotes that you do not believe God created all things, yet Holy Spirit inspired Apostle John declares All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being (John 1:3).

Yes, evil pride proceeds out of the heart of men, not out of the heart of God.

Your pride permeates your claim to your free-will choosing of God in direct opposition to the Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).

You continued reference to Matthew 15:9 as a rebuttal to free will is simply wrong. It does no such thing. Here again you are a Calvinist grasping really bad interpretations to buttress your totally depraved soteriology (pun intended).

@brightfame52, your soteriology is false!!!

The Word of God is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16); moreover, any man conjured words/concepts beyond the scope established by the Word of God are enshrined within the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

No Word of God states man was imparted a free-will to choose towards God, so free-will is the traditions of men; therefore, the Lord's words "in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" (Matthew 15:9) most certainly applies to your Free-willian Philosophy.

I am not a Calvinist.

I am a Christian because I believe on Lord Jesus Christ and His sayings.

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ETERNAL GOD AND SAVIOR!!!

 

[brightfame52]

@Kermos

God is love (1 John 4:16) and love is from God (1 John 4:7) and Jesus is God (John 1:1).

God is Love however whats overlooked is Gods Love is sovereign and discriminate for a elect people like the Jacobs of the world and not for the esaus of the world Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Also Gods Love is exclusively in Christ Jesus our Lord Rom 8:39

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In the original, Paul uses the definite article describing the Love of God

οὔτε ὕψωμα οὔτε βάθος οὔτε τις κτίσις ἑτέρα δυνήσεται ἡμᾶς χωρίσαι ἀπὸ τῆς ἀγάπης τοῦ θεοῦ τῆς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ τῷ κυρίῳ ἡμῶν

This is exclusive Love only in Christ Jesus out Lord and Mediator, if one isn't chosen in Him by God, God doesnt love them, they are outside of His Love where there is only just hate for that people.

 

[Kermos]

There are two pair of opposites in Isaiah 45:7

• KJV
  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD doall these things.
• NKJV
  I form the light and create darkness,
  I make peace and create calamity;
  I, the LORD, do all these things.’
• NLT
  I create the light and make the darkness.
  I send good times and bad times.
  I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.
• NIV
  I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
• ESV
  I form light and create darkness;
  I make well-being and create calamity;
  I am the LORD, who does all these things.
• CSB
  “I form light and create darkness,
  I make success and create disaster;
  I am the LORD, who does all these things.
• NASB20
  The One forming light and creating darkness,
  Causing well-being and creating disaster;
  I am the LORD who does all these things.
• NASB95
  The One forming light and creating darkness,
  Causing well-being and creating calamity;
  I am the LORD who does all these.
• LSB
  The One forming light and creating darkness,
  Producing peace and creating calamity;
  I am Yahweh who does all these.
• NET
  I am the one who forms light and creates darkness; the one who brings about peace and creates calamity. I am the LORD, who accomplishes all these things.
• RSV
  I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the LORD, who do all these things.
• ASV
  I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
• YLT
  Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I amJehovah, doing all these things.'
• DBY
  forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.
• WEB
  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

What does it say that every translation identifies the pairs of opposites.
Is “evil” the opposite of “peace” as the word “evil” is used in the 21st Century (compared to how the word was used in 1611 when one had “evil tidings” as bad news or “evil days” as times of trouble)?

The opposite of peace is war, and the opposite of calamity is stability; nonetheless, every translation that departs from the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant) is רָע. The Word of God uses the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant) in:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I, YHWH, do all these things.
(Isaiah 45:7)
​

God reveals contrasts in Isaiah 45:7. An opposite is a type of contrast, but a contrast is not necessarily an opposite.

In the clause which you call the first opposite, we need to look at the action words, that is, the verbs of form and create, so this subtle difference results in a contrast.

Notice the parallel of the verb create in the second half of the both clauses which you refer to as opposites, create darkness and create evil results in a profound relationship between darkness and evil being revealed by the Word of God.

Take a look at the many translations which you quoted containing the accurate translation of the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant) in Isaiah 45:7.

Now, to continue addressing your question. Neither people of the 21st Century nor 1611 possess the authority to adulterate the Word of God from the original Hebrew definition for the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant). Man introduced confusion by substituting the words such as "calamity" and "disaster" for the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant).

Those translators of "calamity" and "disaster" have confused people, just look at this thread. Look at the recent post #9,647 along with it's lead up, and you will find the free-willians denying that man is evil, even denying that "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18). The free-willian philosophers convey that they believe "I am good, possessing the ability to choose God". Free-willians deny God's self-declared nature, and they deny God's declaration that man is evil, for example, Lord Jesus says "If you then, being evil" (Matthew 7:11).

Christ causes Christians to bear the image of Christ thus redemption of evil man occurs by God's grace for God's glory!

Peace,
Kermos

 

[Jim]

The opposite of peace is war, and the opposite of calamity is stability; nonetheless, every translation that departs from the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant) is רָע. The Word of God uses the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant) in:

​

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I, YHWH, do all these things.​

(Isaiah 45:7)​

​

God reveals contrasts in Isaiah 45:7. An opposite is a type of contrast, but a contrast is not necessarily an opposite.

In the clause which you call the first opposite, we need to look at the action words, that is, the verbs of form and create, so this subtle difference results in a contrast.

Notice the parallel of the verb create in the second half of the both clauses which you refer to as opposites, create darkness and create evil results in a profound relationship between darkness and evil being revealed by the Word of God.

Take a look at the many translations which you quoted containing the accurate translation of the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant) in Isaiah 45:7.

Now, to continue addressing your question. Neither people of the 21st Century nor 1611 possess the authority to adulterate the Word of God from the original Hebrew definition for the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant). Man introduced confusion by substituting the words such as "calamity" and "disaster" for the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant).

Those translators of "calamity" and "disaster" have confused people, just look at this thread. Look at the recent post #9,647 along with it's lead up, and you will find the free-willians denying that man is evil, even denying that "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18). The free-willian philosophers convey that they believe "I am good, possessing the ability to choose God". Free-willians deny God's self-declared nature, and they deny God's declaration that man is evil, for example, Lord Jesus says "If you then, being evil" (Matthew 7:11).

Christ causes Christians to bear the image of Christ thus redemption of evil man occurs by God's grace for God's glory!

Peace,
Kermos

All of that and you haven't a clue about the Jesus' meaning of the word "good" in Mark 10:18.

 

[Kermos]

Hi again @atpollard,

The exact same Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant) occurring in "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I, YHWH, do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7) also appears as the nearby passage of "How blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who takes hold of it; Who keeps from profaning the sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil" (Isaiah 56:2), so we know the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant) retains the concept of "evil" from the creation account (Genesis 2:17) up to and including the days of Isaiah (Isaiah 45:7).

When you say the inconsistency is “evil”, do you mean:

• The inconsistency is bad.
• The inconsistency is wicked.
• The inconsistency is harmful.
• The inconsistency is unpleasant.

I should answer your question with all of the above that amounts to "evil" which is absent from your multiple choice list.

Now, it's my turn to ask you a question. But first, Holy Spirit inspired Apostle John declares:

​

All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being​

(John 1:3).​

​

What things came into being apart from the Word?

In Isaiah 45:7, [H7451] is the opposite of “peace”.
In Genesis 2:17, [H7451] is the opposite of “good”.

In Isaiah 45:7, [H4421] is the opposite of “peace”, but [H4421] is absent from Isaiah 45:7.

As post #9,649 details, Isaiah 45:7 contains contrasting conceptualizations.

The Lord God Almighty utilized the contrast of peace and רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant). Any person who mistranslates רָע as "calamity" and "disaster" adulterates the Word of God.

Context is your friend.

My friend is Lord Jesus because He says to me and all image bearers of Christ "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16). Contextual understanding is the work of the Holy Spirit indwelling those of us inside the Way (John 14:6).

A solution exists for the errant translators who used "calamity" and "disaster" to rectify the inconsistency between Isaiah 45:7 and Genesis 2:17 for the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant), and the solution is to use the English word evil for the Hebrew word רָע (Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- Evil, bad, wicked, harmful, unpleasant) in both Genesis 2:17 and Isaiah 45:7.

God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world is good!

Peace,
Kermos

 

[atpollard]

Any person who mistranslates רָע as "calamity" and "disaster" adulterates the Word of God.

I disagree (as I see the pair of opposites as roughly "good times" and "bad times"), but fortunately for both of us ... I am not a Bible Translator (I am a Registered Architect). So I do not translate "רָע" at all - I have people that do that for me.

Shalom (that means "peace")

 

[brightfame52]

@Kermos

All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being
(John 1:3).


What things came into being apart from the Word?

Nothing, and moral evil came into being to serve Gods eternal purpose in Christ Jesus. God purposed it for the accomplishment of the Cross Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

See that word slain also refers to Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

God predetermined and is the First and Primary Cause of the wicked hands that He willed for the Crucifying of Christ for the Elect.
He made a wicked people for Himself to carry out His Purpose in Christ Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked[ungodly] for the day of evil.

 

[atpollard]

What things came into being apart from the Word?

Sorry, I missed the question.

No thing.
... or as John 1 opens with: [ESV] "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made."

 

[GodsGrace]

All of that and you haven't a clue about the Jesus' meaning of the word "good" in Mark 10:18.

@Kermos ' reply sounds like a teaching of RC Sproul.

I always had an idea about Mark 10:18

Why do you call Me good?
Only God is good.

Translation: So you're calling Me good because you know that I'm God?

(on phone, can't write too much....)

 

[Kermos]

Yes, which actually means one must be saved before the can perform spiritual acts. Like Jesus tells us who it is the Hears the word of God Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Now to be of God is to be saved.

Indeed.

And Lord Jesus, the stumbling block to those who are perishing, makes clear:

11 He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

‘Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’
​

14 In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled:

‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has grown callous;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn, and I would heal them.’
​

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
(Matthew 13:11-17)
​

Amongst all this glorious Word, the phrase given to you gently sits in Christ's opening sentence (Matthew 13:12), so Lord and God Jesus Christ explains "The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, Yahweh has made even both of them" (Proverbs 20:12), so only the new creature in Christ can rightly hear and accurately see, so one must be born again, before such a one can do spiritual acts pleasing to God.

Lord Jesus is known to say "He who has ears to hear, let him hear" (Mark 4:9).

To God be all glory and honor and praise forever and always!

 

[Kermos]

So then, God's faithfulness is God's state of being full of faith???? Ridiculous!!!

God, who is full of belief (faithful), is the One filling God's chosen persons with belief. You call this loving blessing of God your exclamatory "Ridiculous".

Let's review both verses using the word "belief" for the translation of πίστιν (Strong's 4102; noun; pistin; faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity):

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and belief. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
(Matthew 23:23)

What if some disbelieve? Does their unbelief nullify the belief of God?
(Romans 3:3)
​

Someday, maybe, you will learn what faith is.

God has already taught me that belief (faith) is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1), and I thank God!

Faith is authored and perfected by Lord Jesus Christ inside of me and every Christian (Hebrews 12:2).

@Jim, you wrote "Faithfulness, not faith" (proof post #9,529), so you confusedly believe that "faithfulness" is a different type of thing than "faith" ("belief").

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE RISEN LORD JESUS!!!

 

[brightfame52]

It is true, fallen man has a free-will, but it is in its every exercise restricted to the carnal, and is utterly impotent to will the first thing pleasing unto God. The natural man can will to do the greater or lesser evil, but never to do good; “...There is none that doeth good, no, not one” (Romans 3:12). https://www.pbcofdecaturalabama.org/OBMink/reconcile.htm

 

[civic]

It is true, fallen man has a free-will, but it is in its every exercise restricted to the carnal, and is utterly impotent to will the first thing pleasing unto God. The natural man can will to do the greater or lesser evil, but never to do good; “...There is none that doeth good, no, not one” (Romans 3:12). https://www.pbcofdecaturalabama.org/OBMink/reconcile.htm

nice try the verse has to do with doing good under the law for justification.

next fallacy

 

[Redemption]

You wrote "You can't be saved unless you know.....WAIT FOR IT... Jesus. And believe He is who He said He is", and not a single Free-willian believes Lord Jesus ....WAIT FOR IT... when Christ says to all His own sheep in all time that He is the exclusive Chooser of Christians unto salvation - see who He said He is with “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).

John 15:16 emphasizes that Jesus chose His disciples, not the other way around, and appointed them to bear lasting fruit, assuring them that whatever they ask in His name will be given by the Father. This verse highlights the concept of divine selection and the purpose of their mission.
“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
Tell us @Kermos.. What were YOU appointed to do?
Where were you appointed to go?
And what fruit have you born that shall remain?
John 15:19 “If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
Now, pay close attention to the following @Kermos .
John 15:20 " Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

These verses are not for everyone, or every Christian. Jesus is telling his disciples that they will face the same treatment as him: persecution if they obey him, and obedience if they disobey him.

I do wish you people would find different verses to make your point because these do not cut it.