Selah
Well-known member
Those whose father is the devil will never come to the LORD.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
GodsGrace
Well-known member
What does this mean?
Before you were saved....whose daughter were you?
Selah
Well-known member
John 8:37-47 (NKJV) 37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 “I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.” 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 “But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 “You do the deeds of your father.” Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father--God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 “Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 “You are of [your] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [resources,] for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 “But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 “Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 “He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
GodsGrace
Well-known member
You just bring up more questions.
He who is of God hears God's voice.
Those who are of satan do not hear Jesus' words.
Of course.
But you said that those who are of satan will never come to the Lord.
Weren't we all of satan before we were born again as Jesus said in John 3:3,5?
Just wondering what you think about this.....
GodsGrace
Well-known member
@atpollard
You gave the other member a LIKE....
she just stated that those that are of satan will not come to God.
BUT aren't we all previously of satan?
So...
Would YOU like to answer my question?
Here it is again....
If God is sovereign....in the way that you understand sovereignty....
and God desires that all men be saved:
1 Timothy 2:4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Then WHY aren't all men saved?
Is the NT lying?
Is God unable to save everyone?
You gave the other member a LIKE....
she just stated that those that are of satan will not come to God.
BUT aren't we all previously of satan?
So...
Would YOU like to answer my question?
Here it is again....
If God is sovereign....in the way that you understand sovereignty....
and God desires that all men be saved:
1 Timothy 2:4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Then WHY aren't all men saved?
Is the NT lying?
Is God unable to save everyone?
Selah
Well-known member
Nope, I was never of Satan. You know how I know? because I love Jesus.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
So you're saying that you were always saved?
In (Matthew 23:23) and (Romans 3:3), the exact same inflection of the Greek word appears for πίστιν (Strong's 4102; noun; pistin; faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity), and this exact inflection of πίστιν appears 55 times in the New Testament, but this exact inflection of πίστιν is translated as "faithfulness" by some translators a mere 2 times per this Greek Concordance: πίστιν (pistin), yet the overwhelming majority of this exact inflection of πίστιν is translated as "faith" which is the exact same thing as "belief" (noun, thing) - a tightly-coupled word with "believe" (verb, action).
Let's review both verses with using the word "belief" for the translation of πίστιν:
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and belief. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
(Matthew 23:23)
What if some disbelieve? Does their unbelief nullify the belief of God?
(Romans 3:3)
@Jim, you wrote "Faithfulness, not faith", yet faithfulness has two suffixes, and the suffix "-ness" means "the quality of being", and the suffix "-ful" means "the state of being full of", so faithfulness is the quality of being faithful, and faithful is the state of being full of faith. The concept of faith is an exact synonym of the concept of belief. Your "Faithfulness, not faith" is confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because faithfulness is the quality of being in the state of being full of faith.
@Jim, the faithfulness of God that you quoted for (Romans 3:3) is exactly the same thing as belief of God and faith of God and pistin of God.
Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE RISEN LORD JESUS!!!
So then, God's faithfulness is God's state of being full of faith???? Ridiculous!!!
Someday, maybe, you will learn what faith is.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Thats false, the children of God have never been the children of the devil. Christ came to redeem His brethren, the children of God, not the children of the devil. Is Christ the kinsman redeemer for the seed of the serpent ? Heb 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
atpollard
Well-known member
Ephesians 2:1-3 [ESV]
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air [Satan], the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-- among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
So we:
- Followed [the devil] … at work in the “sons of disobedience”.
- Lived in the passions of the flesh
- Were “children of wrath”
We were not, as far as I can see, “children of the devil”, but merely “followed” him.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@atpollard
Yes the elect BY Nature shared the same depraved nature and were just as worthy of wrath, as the children of the devil, yet they were the fallen children of God, not children of the devil.
Yes all this is true, yet the elect were the fallen children of God, much like the prodical son, in his rebellious state, living as others Lk 15:13-24
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 ;I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he[My Son] was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Also consider the Lost Sheep, was he a accursed goat when lost ? No
Same with the children of God, never even in their lost dead spiritual state/condition, were they children of the devil or vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction, though they deserved it.
Yes the elect BY Nature shared the same depraved nature and were just as worthy of wrath, as the children of the devil, yet they were the fallen children of God, not children of the devil.
Yes all this is true, yet the elect were the fallen children of God, much like the prodical son, in his rebellious state, living as others Lk 15:13-24
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 ;I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he[My Son] was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Also consider the Lost Sheep, was he a accursed goat when lost ? No
Same with the children of God, never even in their lost dead spiritual state/condition, were they children of the devil or vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction, though they deserved it.
civic
Well-known member
Not true
Matthew 13:38
The field is the world, and the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one
1 John 3:10
By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.1 John 3:8
Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
brightfame52
Well-known member
So do you plan on exegeting these scriptures, or just posting them and letting it go ? I bet you waiting on someone else to labour with them
atpollard
Well-known member
Since I directly quoted what Paul claimed in his letter to the Ephesians, I am pretty sure that it IS TRUE.
If you think Paul got it wrong, then tell God.
Revising Scripture is above my pay grade.
Selah
Well-known member
When did God choose His sheep?
brightfame52
Well-known member
Before the foundation of world, He chose them in Christ their Shepard Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
GodsGrace
Well-known member
So if we follow God
are we children of God?
If we follow satan...
we are children of satan.
Jesus said:
John 8:41
41You are doing the deeds of your father.
John 8:44
44You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
A father has children.
Jesus taught that some are the children of the devil.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
We were chosen IN HIM BF.
This is HOW are chosen...
IN CHRIST.
It is NOT WHO is chosen...
but HOW.
