An Article on free will

[synergy]

lol

dude once more time

HUMBLE YOURSELF

Who do you think you are? The Pope? I will not recant what James wrote concerning our justification before God, faith, and good works.

You accused me multiple times of saying or believing things I do not believe (you attempted to put me in a calvinist mode)

I did not lose the debate, there was no debate. Because you have a mindset that I am calvinist. so their is no debate.

I think of you much much more as a Pope of your anti-James beliefs.

Until you open up. there is no debate..

Until you truly believe what James (and Paul) wrote, this debate is over.

 

[Kermos]

Okay. Now we’re getting to some meat.

I’ll quote from Ephesians 1:1 all the way to verse 12. Starting In verse 4, all of these scriptures refer to the time when God chose His Elect before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:1-13 (NKJV) 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

Now notice that in verse 13, the time changes to after the foundation of the world—after the sacrifice of our Savior.

13 In Him you also [trusted,] after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

This is a good study-we can have a good, edifying conversation later @Selah.

God bless.

Johann.

Yes. It’ll be a doozy for sure.

Perhaps your study will include an accurate translation of the Greek, in which the word "after" is absent from Ephesians 1:13, such as:

​

In Him you also, having heard the Word of the Truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit​

(Ephesians 1:13)​

​

The crux of your free-willian philosophy point is "notice that in verse 13, the time changes to after the foundation of the world—after the sacrifice of our Savior", but the Truth (John 14:6) is Ephesians 1:13 starts out with us Christians being in Christ, so God chooses us children of God every step of the Way (John 14:6) without us children of God doing any choosing thus we are entirely dependent upon our Holy God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).

To God be the glory, always and forever!

 

[MTMattie]

Do Paul and James Disagree on Justification by Faith Alone?

Tom Schreiner examines the complementary differences between Paul and James on justification by faith alone.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Bible & Theology

Do Paul and James Disagree on Justification by Faith Alone?​

April 21, 2017 | Thomas Schreiner

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Critics of the slogan “faith alone” often point out that Scripture only speaks once about whether we are justified by faith alone—and that text denies it: “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24, CSB).

What does James mean in saying we are justified by works?


I won’t defend the truth of justification by faith alone in detail, but it’s clearly taught, for example, in Romans 3:28: “A person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.” Or, as Paul teaches in Romans 4:5, “God justifies the ungodly.” Both Abraham and David were justified by faith and not by works (Rom. 4:1–8; Gal. 3:6–9).

Salvation, as Paul elsewhere demonstrates, is “by grace” and “through faith” (Eph. 2:8–9). Works are excluded as the basis of salvation—otherwise people could boast about what they have done. Salvation by grace through faith highlights the amazing and comforting truth that salvation is the Lord’s work, not ours.

But does Paul contradict James?

Justification by Works in James​

James 2:14–26 repeatedly argues that faith without works doesn’t save on the last day. Those who claim to have faith but lack good works aren’t saved by such a claiming faith (Jas. 2:14). James compares such faith to “words of love and comfort” given to someone who is cold and hungry. Such words are meaningless if not accompanied by actions to feed and clothe the person in need (2:15–16). So also, faith without works is “dead” and “useless” (2:17, 20, 26).

Faith that is merely intellectual, or faith that claims to believe but is bereft of any action, is no better than “the faith” of demons. After all, they subscribe to the orthodox belief that “God is one,” and they “shudder” in terror (2:19). James highlights that Abraham was “justified by works” in offering up Isaac (2:21), and Rahab the prostitute was “justified by works” in receiving the spies and protecting them from danger (2:25).

Intellectual Belief Doesn’t Save​

At first glance, it might seem James rejects justification by faith alone, but first glances aren’t enough when reading the Scriptures. We are called to read deeply and canonically. James doesn’t deny that faith saves; he rejects the notion that a particular kind of faith saves—a faith that doesn’t produce works. In short, faith that is merely intellectual assent is not saving faith.

Again, demons professed that Jesus is “the Holy One of God” (Mark 1:24), but their belief in that truth didn’t save them. Even though they knew who Jesus was, they hated him. Saving faith, then, is the act of the entire person. It includes the will and the emotions, such that those who believe in Jesus give themselves to him.

Not the Foundation​

Let’s think of it another way. Faith alone justifies, but only the kind of faith that inevitably produces good works. Now, such good works aren’t the basis of justification; indeed, they can’t be, for one sin makes you a lawbreaker (Jas. 2:10–11). Good works can’t function as the foundation of our justification because God demands perfection, and even after we are converted we continue to sin.

James, in fact, says this very thing in the next passage after discussing justification by works: “We all stumble in many ways” (3:2). The word “stumble” means “sin,” as the parallel text in James 2:10 shows. Every one of us without exception—including James (“we all”)—continue to sin.

Is he saying we sin only occasionally? Absolutely not. He says we all sin “in many ways.” We don’t just sin in a few ways, but in many. Since sin continues to characterize the lives of believers in remarkable ways, and since God demands perfection, works that justify can’t form the basis of our justification.

Fruit, Not Root​

How should we understand the works James requires? Certainly good works are necessary, for without them we will not be justified, but we have seen that they aren’t the necessary basis or foundation.

The best solution is to say they are the result and fruit of faith. True faith expresses it in works. Paul actually says the same thing, teaching what ultimately matters is “faith expressing itself through love” (Gal. 5:6, NIV).

The concept isn’t hard to understand. If I said the room you were in was about to blow up in one minute, and you believed me, desired to live, and were physically able to leave, you would hurry to exit. True faith would lead to works! Leaving the room would be the result of your faith. So it’s right to say, as the Reformers did, that we are justified by faith alone, but that true faith is never alone. I would suggest James is teaching this very idea.

It isn’t as if our works save or justify in the sense that they qualify us to enter God’s presence—as if our virtue wins us God’s favor on the last day. James teaches that there is an organic relationship between genuine faith and works. If we truly trust Christ, that trust shows up in how we live. Works evidence our faith.

Complementary Truths​

Why do Paul and James sound so different? Why does it appear at first glance they contradict? We need to remember that letters were written to specific situations facing specific churches. Paul wrote to churches where people were tempted to trust in their works for salvation, while James wrote to those who were disposed to think intellectual assent could save them.

Paul counteracts legalism, while James corrects antinomianism.

Of course, Paul rejected antinomianism as well: “I am warning you about these things—as I warned you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:21). He also believed good works were necessary for eternal life, but both Paul and James believed such works were the fruit of saving faith, not the root.

In the beauty and completeness of God’s Word, Paul and James teach complementary, not contradictory, truths.

 

[Johann]

Perhaps your study will include an accurate translation of the Greek, in which the word "after" is absent from Ephesians 1:13, such as:

​

In Him you also, having heard the Word of the Truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit​

(Ephesians 1:13)​

​

The crux of your free-willian philosophy point is "notice that in verse 13, the time changes to after the foundation of the world—after the sacrifice of our Savior", but the Truth (John 14:6) is Ephesians 1:13 starts out with us Christians being in Christ, so God chooses us children of God every step of the Way (John 14:6) without us children of God doing any choosing thus we are entirely dependent upon our Holy God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).

To God be the glory, always and forever!

@Kermos, brother, I don't know what to do, what prompted you to write this? The Holy Spirit?

Eph 1:13 in ἐν whom ᾧ you ὑμεῖς, also, καὶ having heard ἀκούσαντες the τὸν word λόγον - τῆς of truth, ἀληθείας, the τὸ gospel εὐαγγέλιον your ὑμῶν, of τῆς salvation, σωτηρίας in ἐν whom ᾧ also καὶ having believed πιστεύσαντες you were sealed ἐσφραγίσθητε with τῷ the τῷ Holy Ἁγίῳ, Spirit Πνεύματι - τῆς of promise, ἐπαγγελίας
Eph 1:14 who ὅ* is ἐστιν [the] guarantee ἀρραβὼν of our ἡμῶν, - τῆς inheritance κληρονομίας to εἰς [the] redemption ἀπολύτρωσιν of the τῆς acquired possession, περιποιήσεως, to εἰς [the] praise ἔπαινον of τῆς His αὐτοῦ. glory. δόξης

Ephesians 1:13 (Interlinear Format)

Greek Word Transliteration Morphology English Translation Syntactical Role
ἐν en Preposition in Prepositional phrase
ᾧ hō Relative Pronoun, Dative Singular Masculine whom Relative clause
καὶ kai Conjunction also Coordinating conjunction
ὑμεῖς hymeis Personal Pronoun, Nominative Plural you Subject
ἀκούσαντες akousantes Aorist Participle, Active, Nominative Plural Masculine having heard Adverbial participle (temporal)
τὸν λόγον ton logon Definite Article + Noun, Accusative Singular Masculine the word Direct object
τῆς ἀληθείας tēs alētheias Definite Article + Noun, Genitive Singular Feminine of truth Genitive of description
τὸ to Definite Article, Accusative Singular Neuter the Article (specifying)
εὐαγγέλιον euangelion Noun, Accusative Singular Neuter gospel Apposition to "word"
τῆς σωτηρίας tēs sōtērias Definite Article + Noun, Genitive Singular Feminine of salvation Genitive of possession
ἐν en Preposition in Prepositional phrase
ᾧ hō Relative Pronoun, Dative Singular Masculine whom Relative clause
καὶ kai Conjunction also Coordinating conjunction
πιστεύσαντες pisteusantes Aorist Participle, Active, Nominative Plural Masculine having believed Adverbial participle (temporal)
ἐσφραγίσθητε esphragisthēte Aorist Indicative, Passive, 2nd Person Plural you were sealed Main verb (indicative)
τῷ tō Definite Article, Dative Singular Neuter with the Article (instrumental)
Πνεύματι Pneumati Noun, Dative Singular Neuter Spirit Dative of means
τῆς ἐπαγγελίας tēs epangelias Definite Article + Noun, Genitive Singular Feminine of promise Genitive of description


"In whom you also, having heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation—in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise."


The verse is structured around two key participial phrases:

"having heard" (ἀκούσαντες)

"having believed" (πιστεύσαντες)
These participles are temporal and describe actions that occurred before the sealing.

The main verb is "you were sealed" (ἐσφραγίσθητε), an aorist passive indicative, indicating a completed action initiated by God.

The instrumental dative ("with the Holy Spirit") shows the means by which the sealing occurred.

The phrase "of promise" (τῆς ἐπαγγελίας) functions as a genitive of description, emphasizing that the Holy Spirit fulfills God's promise.



Synergism right there.

J.

 

[synergy]

@MTMattie

Critics of the slogan “faith alone” often point out that Scripture only speaks once about whether we are justified by faith alone—and that text denies it: “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24, CSB).

That is a fact. There is no denying that. The case can easily be closed with this statement but "Faith Alone" people will persist on denying this fact against all odds.

What does James mean in saying we are justified by works?

I won’t defend the truth of justification by faith alone in detail, but it’s clearly taught, for example, in Romans 3:28: “A person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.” Or, as Paul teaches in Romans 4:5, “God justifies the ungodly.” Both Abraham and David were justified by faith and not by works (Rom. 4:1–8; Gal. 3:6–9).

Works of the Law are not faithful good works. This Author is conflating works of the Law with good works and making a mess of things.

Salvation, as Paul elsewhere demonstrates, is “by grace” and “through faith” (Eph. 2:8–9). Works are excluded as the basis of salvation—otherwise people could boast about what they have done. Salvation by grace through faith highlights the amazing and comforting truth that salvation is the Lord’s work, not ours.

It's works of the Law that are excluded. On the other hand, James 2:24 includes good works as part of our Justification, and Justification is undeniably connected to our Salvation.

But does Paul contradict James?

No contradiction. James is taking about good works whereas Paul was talking works of the Law in Rom 3 & 4.

Justification by Works in James​

James 2:14–26 repeatedly argues that faith without works doesn’t save on the last day. Those who claim to have faith but lack good works aren’t saved by such a claiming faith (Jas. 2:14). James compares such faith to “words of love and comfort” given to someone who is cold and hungry. Such words are meaningless if not accompanied by actions to feed and clothe the person in need (2:15–16). So also, faith without works is “dead” and “useless” (2:17, 20, 26).

Faith that is merely intellectual, or faith that claims to believe but is bereft of any action, is no better than “the faith” of demons. After all, they subscribe to the orthodox belief that “God is one,” and they “shudder” in terror (2:19). James highlights that Abraham was “justified by works” in offering up Isaac (2:21), and Rahab the prostitute was “justified by works” in receiving the spies and protecting them from danger (2:25).

Intellectual Belief Doesn’t Save​

At first glance, it might seem James rejects justification by faith alone, but first glances aren’t enough when reading the Scriptures. We are called to read deeply and canonically. James doesn’t deny that faith saves; he rejects the notion that a particular kind of faith saves—a faith that doesn’t produce works. In short, faith that is merely intellectual assent is not saving faith.

Again, demons professed that Jesus is “the Holy One of God” (Mark 1:24), but their belief in that truth didn’t save them. Even though they knew who Jesus was, they hated him. Saving faith, then, is the act of the entire person. It includes the will and the emotions, such that those who believe in Jesus give themselves to him.

Not the Foundation​

Let’s think of it another way. Faith alone justifies, but only the kind of faith that inevitably produces good works. Now, such good works aren’t the basis of justification; indeed, they can’t be, for one sin makes you a lawbreaker (Jas. 2:10–11). Good works can’t function as the foundation of our justification because God demands perfection, and even after we are converted we continue to sin.

James, in fact, says this very thing in the next passage after discussing justification by works: “We all stumble in many ways” (3:2). The word “stumble” means “sin,” as the parallel text in James 2:10 shows. Every one of us without exception—including James (“we all”)—continue to sin.

Is he saying we sin only occasionally? Absolutely not. He says we all sin “in many ways.” We don’t just sin in a few ways, but in many. Since sin continues to characterize the lives of believers in remarkable ways, and since God demands perfection, works that justify can’t form the basis of our justification.

Fruit, Not Root​

How should we understand the works James requires? Certainly good works are necessary, for without them we will not be justified, but we have seen that they aren’t the necessary basis or foundation.

The best solution is to say they are the result and fruit of faith. True faith expresses it in works. Paul actually says the same thing, teaching what ultimately matters is “faith expressing itself through love” (Gal. 5:6, NIV).

The concept isn’t hard to understand. If I said the room you were in was about to blow up in one minute, and you believed me, desired to live, and were physically able to leave, you would hurry to exit. True faith would lead to works! Leaving the room would be the result of your faith. So it’s right to say, as the Reformers did, that we are justified by faith alone, but that true faith is never alone. I would suggest James is teaching this very idea.

"Alone" and "never alone" at the same time? This contradicts logic. Something cannot be true and not true at the same time.

It isn’t as if our works save or justify in the sense that they qualify us to enter God’s presence—as if our virtue wins us God’s favor on the last day. James teaches that there is an organic relationship between genuine faith and works. If we truly trust Christ, that trust shows up in how we live. Works evidence our faith.

More than that, good works gives life to our faith.

Complementary Truths​

Why do Paul and James sound so different?

They only sound different to those who conflate works of the Law with faithful good works.

Why does it appear at first glance they contradict? We need to remember that letters were written to specific situations facing specific churches. Paul wrote to churches where people were tempted to trust in their works for salvation, while James wrote to those who were disposed to think intellectual assent could save them.

Paul counteracts legalism, while James corrects antinomianism.

Totally false. The opposite is true. It was Greeks and Romans who were tempted to trust in their intellectual philosophical rational.assent and it was Israelites who were tempted to trust in their works of the Law.

Of course, Paul rejected antinomianism as well: “I am warning you about these things—as I warned you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:21). He also believed good works were necessary for eternal life, but both Paul and James believed such works were the fruit of saving faith, not the root.

In the beauty and completeness of God’s Word, Paul and James teach complementary, not contradictory, truths

Our understanding of God's word gets distorted when people conflate works of the Law with faithful good works.

 

[Kermos]

I highly recommend this book for you called the Potters Promise

I avoid commentaries. I noticed in the search results that the author's name is Doctor Leighton Flowers. In Christ, I do like to be aware of the environment (Matthew 10:16). If my memory is accurate, then Leighton Flowers debated James White. Leighton Flowers and some prefer the label “Provisionism” over “Arminianism" according to the "Soteriology 101" website.

With that being said, no thank you, @civic.

My foundation is the Word of God, Christ alone. The Holy Scripture is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16), even that the man of God may be complete, having been fully equipped toward every good work (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Almighty God controls every good work of us Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14).

I am a Christian because I follow my Leader Jesus Christ (Matthew 23:10).

I encourage you read the Bible and avoid commentaries.

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!

 

[MTMattie]

I avoid commentaries.

Hate to break it to you but every Christian Forum is loaded with personal commentaries...... including yours.

I noticed in the search results that the author's name is Doctor Leighton Flowers. In Christ, I do like to be aware of the environment (Matthew 10:16). If my memory is accurate, then Leighton Flowers debated James White. Leighton Flowers and some prefer the label “Provisionism” over “Arminianism" according to the "Soteriology 101" website.

With that being said, no thank you, @civic.

My foundation is the Word of God, Christ alone. The Holy Scripture is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16), even that the man of God may be complete, having been fully equipped toward every good work (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Almighty God controls every good work of us Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14).

I am a Christian because I follow my Leader Jesus Christ (Matthew 23:10).

I encourage you read the Bible and avoid commentaries.

I do read the bible. You and I disagree on what the meaning of is, is..... (Or are you too young?)

Example.... God said His name is "I am" .....
In Exodus, God states His own name for the first time: “God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM.’ And He said, ‘Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you’” (Exodus 3:14).

Jesus said he was "I am"
In John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham 1was born, I am.”

Or do you think that He should have said I am, Jr. or I am, II?

You dont want commentary references... learn to read to clarity of understanding.

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!

 

[Red Baker]

@synergy @Jim @MTMattie @Johann @Kermos @civic @GodsGrace @Eternally-Grateful

Works of the Law are not faithful good works. This Author is conflating works of the Law with good works and making a mess of things.

Actually having not posted for a few days, but reading all that has been posted, I know that most are making a mess of the truth, of free justification, versus the evidence of that free justification by Christ alone, and the system God had ordained that we live under to know our free justification by grace alone, without works, which is by faith, showing it self with fruits of the Spirit, without which one denies Christ, though with his lips professes Christ.

Titus 1:16​

“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.”

Armenians and Calvinists equally are guilty of corrupting the pure gospel of Jesus Christ, though Armenians much more so. Neither Luther nor Calvin and certainly not any on the Armenian side, preached the pure truth, which is not easily done and maintain a consistent stance on this truth, which Peter proved that to be so, along with Barnabas, who heard Paul many times over defend the gospel of Christ. Peter proved to be faithful after Paul's rebuked him before the brethren. Consider Justification as it is used in different senses in the scripture.


JUSTIFICATION:....Purpose to justify the elect. (Rom 8:29-30; Acts 15:18); Christ satisfies God’s justice. (Rom 3:24,26; 2nd Cor 5:21); God applies righteousness. (Eph 4:24; 2 Pet 1:1) in the new birth; Works prove justification. (Rom 2:13; James 2:24) during our life as a believer. Elect proclaimed completely righteous. (2 Tim 4:8; Rev 19:8) At the last day

As far as God was concerned, God viewed the OT saints righteous IN CHRIST before the law, Christ, or truly before they were ever born into this world, they were loved by God with an everlasting loved that God had for his Son, since the elect were members of his elect body. If this is not so, pray tell me how could Abraham been a friend of God without God viewing him righteous IN CHRIST, he could not.

1) Legal justification from our sins and condemnation is by grace alone apart from any/all works. Works cannot be mixed with grace and still be called the grace of God, it must be free of all works.

Romans 11:5,6​

“Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

What are consider works? Any commandment which said: "This DO and live, sin, and die".....If a religious sect commands certainly works from sinner before they are born again, and commands certain works from them to maintain their salvation, then they have a system of works, and this system varies greatly among different sects, but it still is a system of works if they teach~"This DO and live, sin and die".

2) Legal justification from our sins and condemnation was secured 100% by Christ for God's elect. It was by the obedience of ONE PERSON that secured eternal life for God's children, children of his grace.

Romans 5:19​

“For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

The passage before us is of the highest importance. It forms a striking conclusion to all that goes before, from the beginning of the 12th verse, and asserts, in plain terms, two grand truths, on which the Gospel in all its parts proceeds, though by many they are strenuously opposed, and by others only partially admitted. In the 12th verse, the Apostle had said that death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. In the 13th and 14th verses, he had shown that to this there is no exception; and had further declared that Adam was the figure of Christ who was to come. In the following verses, to the end of the 17th, he had asserted the opposite effects that follow from the sin of the one and the righteousness of the other. In the 18th verse, he had given a summary of what he had said in the preceding verses. Condemnation, he had there affirmed, had come by the offense of one, and justification by the righteousness of one. But as it would not be readily admitted that either a curse or a blessing should come on men on account of the sin or righteousness of another, he here explicitly affirms this truth, which was indeed included in his preceding statements, but being of so great importance, it was proper that it should be declared in the plainest terms. It is grounded on the constituted unity of all men with their covenant-heads. By the disobedience of Adam, those who were one with him in the first creation were made sinners. In the same way, by the obedience of Jesus Christ, they who are one with Him in the new creation are made righteous. This 19th verse contains the explicit declaration of these two facts, and the appellations‘ sinners’ and ‘righteous’ must be understood in the full extent of these terms. Here, then, these two doctrines of the imputation of sin and of righteousness,which is taught throughout the whole of the Scriptures, is exhibited in a manner so clear, that, without opposing the obvious meaning of the words, they cannot be contested.

So, if it was by the obedience of ONE PERSON, then we must not add another person to what Christ secured for his people by adding works to our legal justification from sin and condemnation.

What are works, any commandment that man has an "ACTIVE PART IN" is consider as work by man.

3) Is faith consider a work on man's part? Yes, since man has an active part in his faith and faith is a commandment for us to do and to increase in.

Matthew 23:23​

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”

1st John 3:23​

“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”

Besides, our faith is mixed with sin even at our most holy acts of obeying God, and God's law demands perfection before it can justify a sinner.

Also, in our natural flesh dwelleth no good thing, not one ~ and it is impossible for our flesh (the Old Adam) to obey and do spiritual acts pleasing to God, impossible. This is not my opinion, but God's very own testimony concerning our flesh. One must be born again, before they can do spiritual acts pleasing to God. Read Romans 3:10-18; 8:4-13, etc.

Must come back to finish.

 

[Kermos]

Matthew 15:9 says nothing about free will.

The Word of God is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16); moreover, any words/concepts beyond the scope established by the Word of God are enshrined within the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

No Word of God states man was imparted a free-will to choose towards God, so free-will is dead within the traditions of men boundary; therefore, the Lord's words "in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" (Matthew 15:9) most certainly address your Free-willian Philosophy.

Again, that says nothing whatsoever about free will.

The Sovereignty of God requires that no sovereignty of man (free-will) exists:

​

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE BEAUTIFUL LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!​

​

NOW, EACH VERSE VERBATIM.

God reveals God's Sovereignty and God's control over absolutely every inhabitant of earth thus the vanity of your Free-willian Philosophy is exposed:

• "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except because of Me" (John 14:6),
• "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1).
• "But at the end of that period, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever; for His dominion is an everlasting dominion, and His kingdom endures from generation to generation. All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, but He does according to His will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth, and no one can ward off His hand, or say to Him, ‘What have You done?'" (Daniel 4:34-35).

By definition, there can only be one sovereign; otherwise, that one is not sovereign.

Either you believe Jesus when His Majesty says "The words that I speak to you are Spirit and they are Life" (John 6:63), or you do not believe in Jesus Christ because you fail to receive the treasure that are the Word of God "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

 

[Selah]

3) Is faith consider a work on man's part? Yes, since man has an active part in his faith and faith is a commandment for us to do and to increase in.

1st John 3:23​

“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”

I must disagree. Faith is not a work as you consider it. It takes FAITH to believe in our Savior Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 11:6 (NKJV) But without faith [it is] impossible to please [Him,] for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and [that] He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

 

[Jim]

Faith is not a work as you consider it, @Red Baker. It takes FAITH to believe in our Savior Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 11:6 (NKJV) But without faith [it is] impossible to please [Him,] for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and [that] He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

It takes faith to believe in.....?????

That makes no sense. To have faith in..... means to believe in.....

You might as well have said it takes faith to have faith.

 

[Selah]

Besides, our faith is mixed with sin even at our most holy acts of obeying God, and God's law demands perfection before it can justify a sinner.

Faith can never be mixed with sin.

 

[Selah]

It takes faith to believe in.....?????

That makes no sense. To have faith in..... means to believe in.....

You might as well have said it takes faith to have faith.

Why did you not finish my statement where I clearly said:
“It takes FAITH to believe in our Savior Jesus Christ.”

 

[Selah]

@Jim
Is belief in Jesus Christ a work? Absolutely not.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Who do you think you are? The Pope? I will not recant what James wrote concerning our justification before God, faith, and good works.

Then you will never understand the gospel of salvation.

I think of you much much more as a Pope of your anti-James beliefs.

I am pro james. And james is pro paul.

Until you truly believe what James (and Paul) wrote, this debate is over.

There is no debate. The debate was over when you claimed James did not say they claimed to have faith..

Your lost in your self righteous works.

Your no different than the jews,,

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I must disagree. Faith is not a work as you consider it. It takes FAITH to believe in our Savior Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 11:6 (NKJV) But without faith [it is] impossible to please [Him,] for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and [that] He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Amen

Faith is a trust, a confidence, an assurance.

its not a work, it is who or what you place your trust in.

the person who was drowning and put their trust in the one who came to rescue them did not work to be saved. They allowed the other one to do all the work to save them.

hence the savior gets the credit, the reward, the fruit and the savior gets to boast.

the one saved boasts in the savior. not in self

not of works lest anyone should boast.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It takes faith to believe in.....?????

That makes no sense. To have faith in..... means to believe in.....

You might as well have said it takes faith to have faith.

yes and no

I can believe in something, yet not have faith in that thing

However. i can not have faith in something, and not believe.

again, even demons believe,,

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Why did you not finish my statement where I clearly said:
“It takes FAITH to believe in our Savior Jesus Christ.”

ouch, when people cut out part of what we say to remove context. things are usually not good. they are trying to hide something

 

[Jim]

Why did you not finish my statement where I clearly said:
“It takes FAITH to believe in our Savior Jesus Christ.”

I was simply giving you the definition of the word faith. To have faith in something, by definition, means to believe in something. So when you said, "It takes faith to believe in our Savior Jesus Christ", that was oxymoronic. You are saying, "It takes faith to have faith in our Savior Jesus Christ".

 

[Jim]

yes and no

I can believe in something, yet not have faith in that thing

To believe in something means, by definition, to have faith in that thing.