An Article on free will

ProDeo said:
He was tempted but did not fail.

Example -

Matt 16:22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.”

Matt 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

Peter, playing the (quite natural and well meant) emotional card and noticed the sharp rebuke.
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if he COULD NOT SIN

he could not fail.

You can not be tempted if you are not able to do something
 
synergy said:
Never once did I ever call myself s "co-partner" with Christ. I use the term synergy in the same sense that the Apostles called themselves Synergists (συνεργοι or συνεργουντος) in Mark 16:20 and 1 Cor 3:9.

In Mark 16:20, the Greek words του κυριου συνεργουντος translate to Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers and in 1 Cor 3:9 the Greek words συνεργοι θεου translate to God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers.

(Mark 16:20) εκεινοι δε εξελθοντες εκηρυξαν πανταχου του κυριου συνεργουντος (Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) και τον λογον βεβαιουντος δια των επακολουθουντων σημειων σημειων αμην

(1 Cor 3:9) θεου γαρ εσμεν συνεργοι θεου (God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) γεωργιον θεου οικοδομη εστε

So stop with the strawman misrepresentations.
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this is why isms are a faulty view to try to see what others believe.

they claim us receiving Gods gift is synergism..

its not. Because it is the work of God we believe.

I use the example of a person drawing in the middle of the ocean. A person is sent to rescue them. The person who is drowning is free to reject the person who came to save them, refuse to admit they need help, or tell the person they are ok, they can save themselves.

or they can trust the person sent to rescue them.

If they are rescued, they did not cooperate,, and they did nto work to save themselves. they can not boast. Because they did nothing. It was all the rescuer.

so in fact. we who believe in grace would be monergists. as it is all of God..

we can look at it this way

the one who does not believe earn their condemnation. they cooperated in their own eternal death.. they would be a synergist in their own detriment

the one who receives did not do anything to save themselves. it is all of God.. He gets the credit
 
Johann said:
We are not co-partners or co-workers with God in the sense that He needs us--God is completely self-sufficient and independent. As Isaiah 40:28 says, "Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding."

God does not rely on us; rather, we are entirely dependent on Him.

As Acts 17:25 affirms, "Neither is worshiped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things."

God does not need us to fulfill His purposes--He is sovereign, and His will is accomplished regardless of our participation.

In fact, John 15:5 makes it clear: "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." We need God, not the other way around.

While we are called to cooperate with God in His work, this cooperation is not out of necessity for God's plan but is a gracious privilege extended to us.

As Philippians 2:13 teaches, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

It is God who enables us to act, not because He needs us, but because of His grace and mercy. We must always remember that God’s work is not contingent upon us--Romans 11:36 reminds us, "For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen."

In summary, God does not need us--we are dispensable; rather, we are completely dependent on His grace for our existence and participation in His divine plan.

J.
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But as many as have received him.

His own received him not.

the ones who receive did not earn their gift.

the ones who do not receive earn their condemnation.
 
synergy said:
Never once did I ever call myself s "co-partner" with Christ. I use the term synergy in the same sense that the Apostles called themselves Synergists (συνεργοι or συνεργουντος) in Mark 16:20 and 1 Cor 3:9.

In Mark 16:20, the Greek words του κυριου συνεργουντος translate to Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers and in 1 Cor 3:9 the Greek words συνεργοι θεου translate to God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers.

(Mark 16:20) εκεινοι δε εξελθοντες εκηρυξαν πανταχου του κυριου συνεργουντος (Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) και τον λογον βεβαιουντος δια των επακολουθουντων σημειων σημειων αμην

(1 Cor 3:9) θεου γαρ εσμεν συνεργοι θεου (God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) γεωργιον θεου οικοδομη εστε

So stop with the strawman misrepresentations.

So now you want to change the subject of the conversation to Grace. Nobody is belittling God's Grace here. Everything good comes from God such as our minds, talents, conscience, heart, will, etc... I could go on and on about what God has gifted us with but you get the point. I'm sure you agree with that so far. So I naturally give God all the glory for all that he has gifted and entrusted us with. Now all that has to be responsibly handled by us through proper employment of our minds, talents, conscience, heart, will, etc... Proper usage of our God-given minds gives us the ability to hear God's word and to act on it. That's what Rom 10:8-13 is all about. By hearing, believing, and acting upon what the word of God says, God promises to seal us with the Holy Spirit (Regeneration), and to predestine us into being conformed into images of Christ. Even the works that we do are preordained by God so there's no boasting there either. See Eph 2:10.
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yep ☝️
 
Johann said:
Paul – Romans 4:3 (KJV):
“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.”

Citing: Genesis 15:6 – “And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”

James – James 2:21–24 (KJV):
“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

Citing: Genesis 22:9–12 (Isaac’s offering) along with Genesis 15:6 (as in Paul)

Show them Genesis 15 and Genesis 22... brother, what most don’t realize is that we often fall into “proof-texting” to defend our points... and I include myself in this... but the better way is to let the full testimony of Scripture speak for itself... for it is the power of God that convicts, not our debating skill... and these exhausting and unnecessary counterarguments dissolve when we simply yield to what is written.

God bless.

J.
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here is the problem.

Yes, your right, the works were in Gen 22..

When Was abraham declaired righteous??

Gen 15: 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
Notice.
1. it was BEFORE his son was even born
2. Gen 22 was decades after abraham was declaired righteous
3. The promise was the God would give him and his wife (who is past the age of childbearing) a son. And Abraham believed this promise. in fact he not only believed it. paul tells us in romans 4. he was confident.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.


when was the promise given?

Gen 12:
12 Now the Lord had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country, From your family And from your father’s house, To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Gen 15:
2 But Abram said, “Lord God, what will You give me, seeing I [go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3 Then Abram said, “Look, You have given me no offspring; indeed one born in my house is my heir!”

4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.” 5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

so you see. Abraham only had the promise. And he trusted God way back before his son was even born. and THEN he was credited to be a righteous man.. Justified. Given Gods righteousness. No all the way in the future long after he was saved, when God had him offer his son.

Abraham PROVED his faith them. But God already knew his faith was real. thats why he saved him back in Gen 15.

Abraham was saved by grace as Paul said. but his works proved his faith was real. Which is james point.

Abraham was justified in gen 15. Not gen 22.. This is false.
 
Johann said:
I’ve been observing you, brother... and I can see a tremendous depth of potential in you... it's clearly there.

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth...” (Romans 1:16)

J.
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ouch, be carefull. don't pump someone up who needs help

I see potential in him also.. But sadly, in james, he is lacking in his knowledge
 
Kermos said:
Behold, your faith's work of "Yawn" at the beautifully loving "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63).

Despite the Word of God's declaration of the divine nature as revealed above stating God's exclusive choosing, you convey that you believe without your choosing toward God that you would be under punishment from God instead of pleasure, so you believe buy your way into heaven with your fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation".

This is also to @ProDeo and @GodsGrace because of your work to "Like" @Eternally-Grateful's post.

You ask "why are you boasting", and I answer (unlike you who hides from the inquiry of post #8,808) with my brother Paul "far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world" (Galatians 6:14).

You boast in your fleshly "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet I boast in Christ and Christ's work.
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again yawn

My faith is in God not myself.

Stop boasting in self. as if you are special. Your lost unless you repent.
 
Selah said:
Hi all beloved of the Lord. I’ve got a few sincere questions regarding works.

Is belief considered a work? What about faith? Is that a work?
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John 6: 28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
 
Johann said:
John 6:29 calls belief the “work of God” not as a meritorious deed of man, but as the divinely appointed means of receiving life—not something earned, but something required. Faith is not a work we offer to God, but the response He commands (John 3:16; Rom 4:5), distinguished from works of the law (Eph 2:8–9; Rom 3:28).

J.
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Faith in someone must be earned. You do not just trust a person blindly..

God earned our trust by proving himself to be faithful.

thats why it is his work we believe.

God just does not give people faith. and keep it from others.. fatalism is not of God
 
Red Baker said:
@ GodsGrace

I said this to you:
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It didn't come thru...but what you said is that obedience has no part in our salvation.

What I'M saying is that obedience has everything to do with our salvation.

Red Baker said:
Fran, God's elect are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus, and being His workmanship, he has also ordained that we walk in good works, having given us the power to do so through the new man within us, that is created after the image of His son, Jesus Christ.
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I agree except for the ordaining part.
As you know, I believe in free will,,,we can either walk with God or not.
We have the choice.

Paul is exhorting the believers to walk in the spirit....
IF we didn't have a choice....he would NOT have to exhort us to walk in the spirit:

Ephesians 4:1
1 Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called,


Paul tells us that we PESENT OURSELVES to the one whom we wish to serve:
Romans 6:16
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Red Baker said:

Ephesians 2:10​

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
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Agreed.
This is why we are required to do good works for God.

Red Baker said:

Titus 3:8​

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
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Agreed.
Red Baker said:
So, do not put words in my mouth that I do not believe in, nor teach, as you did when you said:
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I didn't put words in your mouth RB....
You said OBEDIENCE has NOTHING TO DO with our SALVATION.

Then you post verses that show that we are to do good works.
Interesting.
Red Baker said:
That being said, among God's elect, there are believers that range from Abraham to Lot, as far as having good works in their life, sad to say, but very true. Yet, both are saved by the obedience of ONE PERSON, Jesus Christ, not by their obedience.
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No RB.

Here you make another statement that is not biblical.

We are saved by OUR WORKS...just as in all the verses you posted above.

Jesus was obedient, of course,

WE MUST be obedient too.
Jesus taugth that we could be wise or foolish.
The wise man:
Matthew 7:24
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
The foolish man:
Matthew 7:26
26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
The wise man ACTED on the words of Jesus.
The foolish man DID NOT ACT on the words of Jesus.
Red Baker said:
I understand, and so I believe and teach:
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Teach what RB?
The way y ou post is very difficult to reply to.
All the copy and pasting....
Don't you know what you believe??

I THINK you're saying that you believe that faith alone is not correct.
But I doubt that this is what you mean...

Red Baker said:
Necessary for WHAT? To be born again, which I reject as another gospel; or, to give unto God an answer of a good conscience, which I DO believe and teach.
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A person must be BORN AGAIN BEFORE he is baptized.
Yes. JESUS said that we are to be baptized.
The NT teaches that baptism is for the forgiveness of sin and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Nothing to do with a good conscience.
This nonsense has been taught since the reformation.
The early church never taught such nonsense.

Red Baker said:
Fran, you are slow of learning, (spiritual speaking, obviously you are a bright person) and are not following all of my post carefully.
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Well RB...
Maybe I'm following...
maybe I don't agree with what you post....
maybe you don't agree with what I post.

Does that make YOU slow of learning?

Maybe YOU could be learning from ME?

Why be insulting?
Running out of good replies?
This is when some resort to ad hominems.

Red Baker said:
Our life of a believer living out our profession, is our personal faith, and we can add to our faith, or not; we can be spiritual, or carnal; yet the fact that we even believe is based on the faith and obedience of Christ.
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You can add to your faith OR NOT.
You could be spiritual or carnal.

Is this what you believe??

And you want to speak about OBEDIENCE to God !

AGAIN...NO!
Our faith is based on OUR OBEDIENCE....
stop depending on Jesus for everything...

He hung on a cross for you...now YOU do YOUR part.

JESUS said:

Luke 9:23
23 And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily * and follow Me.
Don't you even believe Jesus?
Red Baker said:
There is a difference between the two truths, when carefully considered, just as it was with Abraham and Lot; David and Solomon; Peter and John; Paul and other apostles; etc.

Another subject for another day, I trust the word of God given to our forefather, that most of them lived by until around 1850 plus when this world's market places were beginning to be flooded with false versions of the word of God ~ and they are still coming.....there are versions according to whatever lifestyle one choses to live to accommodate you. I'll past.
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The bible versions are not false RB.
The theology YOU follow is false.

2 Timothy 4:2-4
2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.


Verse 2: Timothy is to rebuke, reprove, instruct and exhort.
WHY IF God decrees all that comes to pass?

Verse 3: They will turn away their ears from THE TRUTH.
HOW do we know this? Because what the reformed teach was NEVER taught in the church till the 1500's.
It is heretical ---- not accepted by all other denominations.....not in keeping with original Christian teachings.
 
Jim said:
As is so often the case, when Paul speaks about salvation being not about works, the works he is talking about is not simply something that we do; rather he is speaking about works of law. Faith, believing in God, is not a work of law. It is a condition upon which God identifies whom He saves (Mark 16:16; John 3:15,16.18,36; 5:24; 6:35,47; 11;25; etc.)
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A work is a work is a work.

Paul said if it is grace it is lo longer of works. otherwise grace is no longer grace.

If a parent gives his son a 10, 000 dollar car. and says here son, it is yours, I give this to you because I love you. recieve this as my gift.

then tells the son he owes 10, 000 dollars if he wants to keep it.

well then it was not of grace it was of works.

as a good teacher once said, grace plus works = works.

it does not matter what the work is. if we have to add anything to grace to receive what is offered by grace. then it is of works.

saying it is just works of the law to satisfy our desire that my works still count toward salvation. is just following the same false gospel.
 
synergy said:
The definition of "work" is very flexible. We have to be very careful in how we definite it within the context it is being used. So you have the definition of work that you have to contend with, compounded by the context it is found in, compounded by the fact that it is translated from Greek. The reformers came up with some of the most idiotic ideas imaginable about work because they were too quick to throw stones at the prevailing churches at that time, no matter how justified the reformers were to do so.
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work is work.

we work to earn a reward.

we work to earn a wage

or we work out of gratitude for someone who gave us something that is priceless (because we trust them.

no work of any type can be added to grace to recieve a grace gift. That would make the grace gift not a grace gift at all. but a reward.

Grace and salvation was paid in full by Christ.

thats why it is called grace.

ad one work to that grace. and you nullify grace
 
Eternally-Grateful said:
work is work.

we work to earn a reward.

we work to earn a wage

or we work out of gratitude for someone who gave us something that is priceless (because we trust them.

no work of any type can be added to grace to recieve a grace gift. That would make the grace gift not a grace gift at all. but a reward.

Grace and salvation was paid in full by Christ.

thats why it is called grace.

ad one work to that grace. and you nullify grace
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we have to accept the reward
we have to deposit or cash the check

so there is something we do for the reward or money to be used.

faith demands action on out part to receive Gods grace. its why Jesus said your faith has saved you, your faith healed you etc...
 

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