MTMattie
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Disagree. Jesus was tempted, therefore he had the sin nature, but would not act on it. There is a difference
An Article on free will
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Disagree. Jesus was tempted, therefore he had the sin nature, but would not act on it. There is a difference
Johann
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MTMattie
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IDC.
Without a possible inclination there is no temptation.
Hebrews 4:15 states, “We do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin” . The significance of Jesus being tempted, yet without sin, touches on His sympathy, His sinlessness, and His qualification to be the Great High Priest.
Depends on what you mean by work. Still, human effort was required for salvation such as repentance. Did you repent?
So now we have to justify ourselves before men? Prove you believe that by doing so right now. Start by telling us all of your wonderful works. I wouldn't want to think that you're just blowing smoke.
It's been 2000 years since people stopped practicing works of the Law. If people are still practicing that in your congregation then by all means do warn them against that.
Prove that you are taking James in context by justifying yourself in front of us.
Johann
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MTMattie
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Johann
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If you’re indifferent to the truth, why expect others to take your claim seriously?
You assert that Jesus Christ possessed a “sin nature,” yet you cite Hebrews 4:15, which plainly declares:
“We do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.”
So let me ask--
Were Christ’s temptations internal, arising from sinful inclinations, or external, presented to Him from without?
But perhaps that question doesn’t matter--after all, by your own admission, you “don’t care.”
J.
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
No.. Thats not what a sin nature. Sin nature is the nature to chose to serve self and Not others. Jesus did nto have this nature. Nor did adam when he was tempted. that nature came after the fall. not before
Because it was not his nature. He acted on his will. not his nature.
Absolutely not. God is a Holy God and does not produce anything sinful, least of all a sinful nature for man including Jesus.
Nobody said he did.
There is only one nature for all humans.
There is only one human nature for all humans. Our nature currently has death associated with it which is a consequence of Adam's sin, not that caused a 2nd nature to miraculously be formed.
In short, we have all inherited a human nature that dies but that is a consequence of Adam's sin, not that there are now 2 different natures.
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
You work to earn a wage or reward. Even believers earn rewards for the fruit they bear
Salvation is a gift., If anyone is claiming they must work to get saved or keep it.. then they make salvation a reward not a gift.
Repentance is not a work.
its the work of God we believe
God change my mind by showing me the truth
I take no credit for that
No. we do not have to. But that was James argument.
I will prove to you my faith by my works. you prove to me your faith with your works..
He is not saying that we must work to stay saved, that would contradict Paul and Jesus
lol.. I could care less what you think of me. I care what God thinks.
Again, James was calling out licentious believers. believers who believes they could say a pray and live any way they please.
He told THEM to justify themselves.. look inside. If you see no works. how can you claim to have faith.
I could care less about the law.. A work is a work is a work.
we have works of the law
works of the church
works of religion
works of God
non of these are required to be saved.
Paul said we are saved by GRACE period..
he then goes on to explain, it is not of works (any work) lest anyone should boast (be puffed up. be proud, take credit for saving themselves by their works)
Just read the book. Comments like this are sarcastic. and will not get a response.
What was the context of who james was speaking to. what was their error
then look in romans 4. what was the context. who was paul calling out in his letter to the romans?
You can not take them both literally.. if you do. you have them apposed to each other..
they are not apposed. they are directly addressing two responses to the gospel.
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
Do you like to bear false witness. or are you just hard of hearing?
I never said God produced anything sinful.
if you are not willing to listen. then stop..
Yet that appears to be what you are insisting
I was born with a sin nature. as were you. Jesus was not.
Yes.
But all humans except adam and eve and Christ also had within them the sin nature or as paul called it the old man.
you need to study more.
nothing you are saying goes against anything I have said..
MTMattie
Well-known member
Oh shoot, @Johann . I long ago gave up that idea that anyone takes me serious.
@Johann
How can anyone... including Jesus be tempted if they are unable to sin.
Have you ever been tempted but was able to withstand?
Fact: Jesus was without sin. Was this because he was tempted but did not? Or was he tempted without an actual temptation?
Could it be that the original scripture author wrote down the wrong word or some translator translated to the best of their ability?
If Jesus was tempted by external presentations then how could he know what mortal man faced in daily life.
Sure... if at the end of a full meal someone offered me a piece of apple pie with ice cream I might want it. I might be tempted but
I would not because I was full.
If I was 2 days without food and 3 days without water and someone would set a plate of Calves liver, a bowel of Spearmint leaves, and some anisette diluted with water in front of me, I would rather it be a plate of locusts because I simply cannot eat those things.... and there would be no temptation.
To answer your question in part.... IDC because this has been an age old debate for as long as I remember and long before forums ever were common.
I look at it like this
Jesus has been where we are. He has felt what we feel. He has overcome the temptations we try overcome.
And because of His experiences, He understands the emotions, frustrations, and temptations you face in life. If anyone can understand what we are going through right now, it’s Jesus! He has been tempted in all points just like us, yet He never succumbed to temptation.
As a result:
He understands our dilemma.
He has experienced our problem.
He is familiar with disappointment.
He knows the temptation to get frustrated.
He sympathizes when we get upset.
Jesus never fell into one of Satan’s traps, but He definitely faced the same frustrations we do in life. In fact, if Jesus hadn’t been tempted in every realm that we are tempted, He wouldn’t be able to understand us and serve as our great High Priest!
I will finish with I believe Jesus was born with his mortal part with every thing man has. He was tempted, as we... but without sin.
Beyond that I shall stop because as I said... it has been a debate, as I said, for decades of my life.
Johann
Well-known member
This is how I read the Scripture @MTMattie
Scripture provides compelling and conclusive evidence that Jesus Christ was entirely free from sin--not only in action but also in desire, inclination, and inner disposition. Even when subjected to real temptation, including hunger, suffering, and satanic enticement, He remained holy in nature, unstained in mind, and invincible in will.
1. Hebrews 4:15 – The Sinless High Priest, Fully Tempted Yet Inwardly Pure
“For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.”
Greek: πειρασθέντα δὲ κατὰ πάντα καθ’ ὁμοιότητα χωρὶς ἁμαρτίας
The participle πειρασθέντα (aorist passive of πειράζω) confirms that Christ underwent real temptation.
The phrase κατὰ πάντα καθ’ ὁμοιότητα ("in every respect like us") shows His full human experience.
But crucially, the phrase χωρὶς ἁμαρτίας means “without sin in every sense”--not only behaviorally, but in disposition and internal nature. The preposition χωρὶς (“apart from”) denotes complete separation, and the anarthrous ἁμαρτίας includes sin in any form or expression, not merely acts.
Thus, as our High Priest, Jesus is both sympathetic to our frailty and categorically distinct in His internal moral purity.
James 1:13 – God Cannot Be Tempted Internally by Evil
“God cannot be tempted with evil”
Greek: ὁ γὰρ Θεὸς ἀπείραστός ἐστιν κακῶν
The adjective ἀπείραστος (not temptable) describes One who is utterly unresponsive to evil’s allure.
Though Christ was tempted externally (e.g., in the wilderness), His divine nature ensured that no inner inclination toward sin existed.
His temptations were thus real but not fueled by internal corruption (unlike James 1:14–15, which describes human temptation as arising from inward lust).
3. John 14:30 – “The Ruler of This World Has Nothing in Me”
“The ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.”
Greek: οὐκ ἔχει ἐν ἐμοὶ οὐδέν
Satan had no foothold, no “hook” of sin, no latent corruption to exploit within Christ.
The emphatic οὐδέν ("nothing at all") denies any internal defect or susceptibility.
This is a categorical denial that Jesus possessed a “sin nature” or any inward disposition to sin.
4. 2 Corinthians 5:21 – “He Knew No Sin”
“He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”
Greek: τὸν μὴ γνόντα ἁμαρτίαν
The phrase μὴ γνόντα (aorist participle of γινώσκω) means Christ had no experiential knowledge of sin---not in thought, not in desire, not in nature.
This refers to a total absence of sin in His person, not merely in behavior.
He was thus a pure substitute, bearing sin externally on the cross, never internally.
Hebrews 7:26 – Holy, Innocent, Unstained
“For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest: holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.”
Greek: Ὅσιος, ἄκακος, ἀμίαντος, κεχωρισμένος ἀπὸ τῶν ἁμαρτωλῶν
Ὅσιος = inwardly holy, pious in nature
ἄκακος = without malice, harmless, no evil intent
ἀμίαντος = free from defilement, morally and ritually pure
These descriptors emphasize that Christ’s inner being was untouched by moral decay—unlike any Levitical priest.
6. Luke 1:35 – The Holy One Conceived of the Spirit
“The Holy Spirit will come upon you… therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.”
Greek: διὸ καὶ τὸ γεννώμενον ἅγιον
Jesus is called ἅγιον (holy) from conception, which distinguishes Him from all other humans born under Adam’s fallen nature (cf. Rom. 5:12).
His humanity is true and complete, yet He is born without inherited corruption, being conceived by the Spirit, not through a human father.
1 Peter 2:22 – Sinless in Mouth and Heart
“He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in His mouth.”
Greek: ὃς ἁμαρτίαν οὐκ ἐποίησεν, οὐδὲ εὑρέθη δόλος ἐν τῷ στόματι αὐτοῦ
οὐκ ἐποίησεν – He did not commit sin (perfect record of action)
οὐδὲ εὑρέθη – not even found in Him; this passive verb shows that even under divine scrutiny, no trace of inner deceit could be discovered
This includes both speech and inner intent—the absence of guile proves internal moral perfection.
Temptation Without Sin Nature or Inclination
Tempted? Yes – in all points (Heb. 4:15)
Possessed Sin Nature? No – separated from sin (Heb. 7:26; John 14:30)
Inclined to Sin? No – knew no sin (2 Cor. 5:21)
Conceived in Sin? No – born of the Spirit, called holy (Luke 1:35)
Susceptible to Lust or Malice? No – holy, innocent, unstained (Heb. 7:26)
Jesus Christ is our perfect High Priest not only because He sympathizes with our weakness, but because He never once shared in our sinfulness--not in act, not in nature, not even in inclination. He was tempted without being temptable in the inward sense, remaining perfectly holy, inside and out.
While some may still view this as open to debate, Scripture itself speaks with unmistakable clarity on this matter, sister------it is not subject to dispute where the Word is definitive.
Shalom and have a blessed day in Messiah.
J.
MTMattie
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Johann
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So Adam chose to serve self (your definition of sin nature) while he did not yet have a sin nature? Tell us how that works.
Johann
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Johann
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Actually I find it quite simple, Adam was a mere human, Christ was God in the human flesh. And God even in the human flesh can not sin, that's impossible. The devil should have known better.
