An Article on free will

You work to earn a wage or reward. Even believers earn rewards for the fruit they bear

Salvation is a gift., If anyone is claiming they must work to get saved or keep it.. then they make salvation a reward not a gift.
There are such a thing as altruistic deeds, where no wage or reward is expected. Charities are altruistic. So your "work" definition fails.
Repentance is not a work.
its the work of God we believe
God change my mind by showing me the truth
I take no credit for that
You're sounding Monergistic and Calvinistic. God does not repent for you. He grants repentance but only after you've repented. I take no credit for that as everything good comes from God.
No. we do not have to. But that was James argument.
I will prove to you my faith by my works. you prove to me your faith with your works..
He is not saying that we must work to stay saved, that would contradict Paul and Jesus
Just as I thought you would do. You did not stand behind your words, took no ownership of them, and instead diverted focus to James. Kids have this tee-shirt that has an arrow picture pointing sideways and says "it's his fault". You reminded me of that shirt.
lol.. I could care less what you think of me. I care what God thinks.
We're talking about the word of God here so you should care.
Again, James was calling out licentious believers. believers who believes they could say a pray and live any way they please.
He told THEM to justify themselves.. look inside. If you see no works. how can you claim to have faith.
The Justification that James is talking about is God's Justification. Instead, you're promoting Man's justification of us. Two diametrically opposed views.
I could care less about the law.. A work is a work is a work.
we have works of the law
works of the church
works of religion
works of God
non of these are required to be saved.
Paul said we are saved by GRACE period..
he then goes on to explain, it is not of works (any work) lest anyone should boast (be puffed up. be proud, take credit for saving themselves by their works)
Not all works are the same. Your repentance saved you.
Just read the book. Comments like this are sarcastic. and will not get a response.
So you won't back up your beliefs. That's how much you believe in what you said. You've made my case.
What was the context of who james was speaking to. what was their error
then look in romans 4. what was the context. who was paul calling out in his letter to the romans?
You can not take them both literally.. if you do. you have them apposed to each other..
they are not apposed. they are directly addressing two responses to the gospel.
Both James and Paul are saying the exact same thing: Justification is by faith plus faithful good works together. This you can take it as literal, perfectly synched, with absolutely no chance of opposing each other.
 
Last edited:

The Impeccability of Christ by Arthur W. Pink (Highlighted areas are mine~RB)​


We are living in a world of sin, and the fearful havoc it has wrought is evident on every side. How refreshing, then, to fix our gaze upon One who is immaculately holy, and who passed through this scene unspoilt by its evil. Such was the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God incarnate. For thirty-three years He was in immediate contact with sin, yet He was never, to the slightest degree, contaminated. He touched the leper, yet was not defiled, even ceremonially. Just as the rays of the sun shine upon a stagnant pool without being sullied thereby, so Christ was unaffected by the iniquity which surrounded Him. He ‘did no sin’ (1 Pet. 2:22), ‘in Him is no sin’ (1 John 3:5 and contrast 1:8), He ‘knew no sin’ (2 Cor. 5:21), He was ‘without sin’ (Heb. 4:15). He was ‘holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners’ (Heb. 7:26).

But not only was Christ sinless, He was impeccable, that is, incapable of sinning. No attempt to set forth the doctrine of His wondrous and peerless person would be complete, without considering this blessed perfection. Sad indeed is it to behold the widespread ignorance thereon today, and sadder still to hear and read this precious truth denied. The last Adam differed from the first Adam in His impeccability. Christ was not only able to overcome temptation, but He was unable to be overcome by it. Necessarily so, for He was ‘the Almighty’ (Rev. 1:8). True, Christ was man, but He was the God-man, and as such, absolute Master and Lord of all things. Being Master of all things—as His dominion over the winds and waves, diseases and death, clearly demonstrated—it was impossible that anything should master Him.

The immutability of Christ proves His impeccability, or incapability of sinning:
‘Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever’ (Heb. 13:8). Because He was not susceptible to any change, it was impossible for the incarnate Son of God to sin. Herein we behold again His uniqueness. Sinless angels fell, sinless Adam fell: they were but creatures, and creaturehood and mutability are, really, correlative terms. But was not the manhood of Christ created? Yes, but it was never placed on probation, it never had a separate existence. From the very first moment of its conception in the virgin’s womb, the humanity of Christ was taken into union with His Deity; and therefore could not sin.

The omnipotence of Christ proves His impeccability. That the Lord Jesus, even during the days of His humiliation, was possessed of omnipotence, is clear from many passages of Scripture. ‘What things so ever He (the Father) doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise….For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth, even so the Son quickeneth whom He will’ (John 5:19, 21). When we say that Christ possessed omnipotence during His earthly sojourn, we do not mean that He was so endowed by the Holy Spirit, but that He was essentially, inherently, personally, omnipotent. Now to speak of an omnipotent person yielding to sin, is a contradiction in terms. All temptation to sin must proceed from a created being, and hence it is a finite power; but impossible is it for a finite power to overcome omnipotency.

The constitution of Christ’s person proves His impeccability. In Him were united (in a manner altogether incomprehensible to created intelligence) the Divine and the human natures. Now ‘God cannot be tempted with evil’ (James 1:13); ‘it is impossible for God to lie’ (Heb. 6:18). And Christ was ‘God manifest in flesh’ (1 Tim. 3:16); ‘Immanuel’—God with us (Matt. 1:23). Personality centered not in His humanity. Christ was a Divine person, who had been ‘made in the likeness of men’ (Phil. 2:7). Utterly impossible was it, then, for the God-man to sin. To affirm the contrary, is to be guilty of the most awful blasphemy. It is irreverent speculation to discuss what the human nature of Christ might have done if it had been alone. It never was alone; it never had a separate existence; from the first moment of its being it was united to a Divine person.

It is objected to the truth of Christ’s impeccability that it is inconsistent with His temptability. A person who cannot sin, it is argued, cannot be tempted to sin. As well might one reason that because an army cannot be defeated, it cannot be attacked. ‘Temptability depends upon the constitutional susceptibility, while impeccability depends upon the will. So far as His natural susceptibility, both physical and mental, was concerned, Jesus Christ was open to all forms of human temptation, excepting those that spring out of lust, or corruption of nature. But His peccability, or the possibility of being overcome by these temptations, would depend upon the amount of voluntary resistance which He was able to bring to bear against them. Those temptations were very strong, but if the self-determination of His holy will was stronger than they, then they could not induce Him to sin, and He would be impeccable. And yet plainly He would be temptable’ (W.G. Shedd, 1889).

Probably there were many reasons why God ordained that His incarnate Son should be tempted by men, by the Devil, by circumstances. One of these was to demonstrate His impeccability. Throw a lighted match into a barrel of gunpowder, and there will be an explosion; throw it into a barrel of water, and the match will be quenched. This, in a very crude way, may be taken to illustrate the difference between Satan’s tempting us and his tempting of the God-man. In us, there is that which is susceptible to his ‘fiery darts’; but the Holy One could say, ‘The prince of this world cometh and hath nothing in Me’ (John 14:30). The Lord Jesus was exposed to a far more severe testing and trying than the first Adam was, in order to make manifest His mighty power of resistance.

 
Yes, faith is a noun. House is a noun. Idea is a noun. All nouns are not solid things. House is a solid thing. Faith is not a solid.

If you study that whole passage of Romans 12:3-8 you will understand that the topic of discussion is gifts. It is gifts of grace that are being given to each brother according to the extent or the lever of faith of that brother.
I do understand this.
But God gives to each of us a measure of faith necessary to carry out what He wants us to do.....
God gives us the grace .... what is necessary, some bibles say faith....

The point is that it comes from God.
Whatever strength we have and whatever we want to call it,
it originates with God and not with us.

I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me...
Philippians 4:13


That God has granted repentance that leads to life is simply the statement that God has opened the way of salvation to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. It is not about the salvation of any particular Gentile, but rather it is about Gentiles, i.e., non-Jews, generally.

Acts 11:18
18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

Yes. To the Gentiles ALSO...as to every nation.
But what has been granted?
Granted....to allow...
here it is repentance, from which follows faith.

We repent.
We turn to God.
God gifts to us the faith necessary to live a Godly life.

The faith here is the faith which Peter and John had in Jesus. It does not refer to any faith of the lame beggar Peter healed.
Acts 3:16 THE FAITH THAT COMES THROUGH HIM (JESUS).
Right. It does not refer to the faith of the lame man...he had no faith at the time of the healing.
It does refer to the faith of Peter and John.
The question still remains as to where that faith came from.
Healing is a gift....
Doesn't healing come from God?
Doesn't every good gift come from God?


I think the like precious faith spoken of here refers to the "Christian faith" or the "Christian religion" that came to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. I do not think that it is speaking about faith believe given as a gift to any individual.
2 Peter 1:1
Agreed.

I agree with that. It is but one of the ways in which all mankind has been created in the image and likeness of God, Himself. But faith, believing in God, is not one of those attributes. The ability to think, to reason, to evaluate, to conclude the truth presented by the Holy Spirit in God's special revelation, His written word, is one of those attributes.
Let me clarify:
I said that LOVE is an attribute given to us by God as it is also one of His attributes.....
IOW,,,love does not come from us...it is given to us by God.

Faith is not an attribute of God that He has passed on to us.
God does not need faith.
But faith, like love, cannot come from within ourselves...
faith is gifted to those that believe.

I know that part of the problem here is that stating that faith is a gift from God, does sound very reformed/calvinist.
But man's free will still enters into the discussion. Man has to WANT this free gift that is offered to all.
It is accepted that all are gifts in Ephesians 2:8....grace, faith and salvation.


Ellicot's
And that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.—This attribution of all to the gift of God seems to cover the whole idea—both the gift of salvation and the gift of faith to accept it. The former part is enforced by the words “not of works,” the latter by the declaration, “we (and all that is in us) are His workmanship.” The word here rendered “gift” is peculiar to this passage; the word employed in Romans 5:15-16; Romans 6:23, for “free gift” (charisma) having been appropriated (both in the singular and plural) to special “gifts” of grace.



I thought this was interesting:
MacLaren's
Note the precision of the Apostle’s prepositions: ‘Ye have been saved by grace’; there is the source-’Ye have been saved by grace, through faith’-there is the medium, the instrument, or, if I may so say, the channel; or, to put it into other words, the condition by which the salvation which has its source in the deep heart of God pours its waters into my empty heart. ‘Through faith,’ another threadbare word, which, withal, has been dreadfully darkened by many comments, and has unfortunately been so represented as that people fancy it is some kind of special attitude of mind and heart, which is only brought to bear in reference to Christ’s Gospel. It is a thousand pities, one sometimes thinks, that the word was not translated ‘trust’ instead of ‘faith,’ and then we should have understood that it was not a theological virtue at all, but just the common thing that we all know so well, which is the cement of human society and the blessedness of human affection,



The following is Barnes and the previous notes were speaking of theologians that believe that in
Ephesians 2:8 only grace and salvation are the gifts....but some theologians disagree:

Barnes
Many critics, however, as Doddridge, Beza, Piscator, and Chrysostom, maintain that the word "that" (τοῦτο touto) refers to "faith" (πίστις pistis); and Doddridge maintains that such a use is common in the New Testament. As a matter of grammar this opinion is certainly doubtful, if not untenable; but as a matter of theology it is a question of very little importance.

Whether this passage proves it or not, it is certainly true that faith is the gift of God. It exists in the mind only when the Holy Spirit produces it there, and is, in common with every other Christian excellence, to be traced to his agency on the heart. This opinion, however, does not militate at all with the doctrine that man himself "believes." It is not God that "believes" for him, for that is impossible. It is his own mind that actually believes, or that exercises faith;



I believe Ephesians 2:8 is speaking of grace, faith and salvation as gifts from God.
Grace is give to man so that he can know that God exists. Some call this general, or prevenient grace.
IF man repents the faith and salvation are also gifted to him.
 
Last edited:
Do you like to bear false witness. or are you just hard of hearing?
I never said God produced anything sinful.
if you are not willing to listen. then stop..
So who created sinful nature? You need to be clear on who created what.
Yet that appears to be what you are insisting
I was born with a sin nature. as were you. Jesus was not.
I already made it clear that nobody has a sinful nature. Why? Again, because God is not in the business of creating anything sinful.
Yes.
But all humans except adam and eve and Christ also had within them the sin nature or as paul called it the old man.
That is sinful desires. Our human nature contains those desires that we fight against by abiding with the Holy Spirit.
you need to study more.
nothing you are saying goes against anything I have said..
Your reluctance to actually do what you preach goes a long way into showing who exactly needs to study more.
 

The Impeccability of Christ by Arthur W. Pink (Highlighted areas are mine~RB)​


We are living in a world of sin, and the fearful havoc it has wrought is evident on every side. How refreshing, then, to fix our gaze upon One who is immaculately holy, and who passed through this scene unspoilt by its evil. Such was the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God incarnate. For thirty-three years He was in immediate contact with sin, yet He was never, to the slightest degree, contaminated. He touched the leper, yet was not defiled, even ceremonially. Just as the rays of the sun shine upon a stagnant pool without being sullied thereby, so Christ was unaffected by the iniquity which surrounded Him. He ‘did no sin’ (1 Pet. 2:22), ‘in Him is no sin’ (1 John 3:5 and contrast 1:8), He ‘knew no sin’ (2 Cor. 5:21), He was ‘without sin’ (Heb. 4:15). He was ‘holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners’ (Heb. 7:26).

But not only was Christ sinless, He was impeccable, that is, incapable of sinning. No attempt to set forth the doctrine of His wondrous and peerless person would be complete, without considering this blessed perfection. Sad indeed is it to behold the widespread ignorance thereon today, and sadder still to hear and read this precious truth denied. The last Adam differed from the first Adam in His impeccability. Christ was not only able to overcome temptation, but He was unable to be overcome by it. Necessarily so, for He was ‘the Almighty’ (Rev. 1:8). True, Christ was man, but He was the God-man, and as such, absolute Master and Lord of all things. Being Master of all things—as His dominion over the winds and waves, diseases and death, clearly demonstrated—it was impossible that anything should master Him.

The immutability of Christ proves His impeccability, or incapability of sinning:
‘Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever’ (Heb. 13:8). Because He was not susceptible to any change, it was impossible for the incarnate Son of God to sin. Herein we behold again His uniqueness. Sinless angels fell, sinless Adam fell: they were but creatures, and creaturehood and mutability are, really, correlative terms. But was not the manhood of Christ created? Yes, but it was never placed on probation, it never had a separate existence. From the very first moment of its conception in the virgin’s womb, the humanity of Christ was taken into union with His Deity; and therefore could not sin.

The omnipotence of Christ proves His impeccability. That the Lord Jesus, even during the days of His humiliation, was possessed of omnipotence, is clear from many passages of Scripture. ‘What things so ever He (the Father) doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise….For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth, even so the Son quickeneth whom He will’ (John 5:19, 21). When we say that Christ possessed omnipotence during His earthly sojourn, we do not mean that He was so endowed by the Holy Spirit, but that He was essentially, inherently, personally, omnipotent. Now to speak of an omnipotent person yielding to sin, is a contradiction in terms. All temptation to sin must proceed from a created being, and hence it is a finite power; but impossible is it for a finite power to overcome omnipotency.

The constitution of Christ’s person proves His impeccability. In Him were united (in a manner altogether incomprehensible to created intelligence) the Divine and the human natures. Now ‘God cannot be tempted with evil’ (James 1:13); ‘it is impossible for God to lie’ (Heb. 6:18). And Christ was ‘God manifest in flesh’ (1 Tim. 3:16); ‘Immanuel’—God with us (Matt. 1:23). Personality centered not in His humanity. Christ was a Divine person, who had been ‘made in the likeness of men’ (Phil. 2:7). Utterly impossible was it, then, for the God-man to sin. To affirm the contrary, is to be guilty of the most awful blasphemy. It is irreverent speculation to discuss what the human nature of Christ might have done if it had been alone. It never was alone; it never had a separate existence; from the first moment of its being it was united to a Divine person.

It is objected to the truth of Christ’s impeccability that it is inconsistent with His temptability. A person who cannot sin, it is argued, cannot be tempted to sin. As well might one reason that because an army cannot be defeated, it cannot be attacked. ‘Temptability depends upon the constitutional susceptibility, while impeccability depends upon the will. So far as His natural susceptibility, both physical and mental, was concerned, Jesus Christ was open to all forms of human temptation, excepting those that spring out of lust, or corruption of nature. But His peccability, or the possibility of being overcome by these temptations, would depend upon the amount of voluntary resistance which He was able to bring to bear against them. Those temptations were very strong, but if the self-determination of His holy will was stronger than they, then they could not induce Him to sin, and He would be impeccable. And yet plainly He would be temptable’ (W.G. Shedd, 1889).

Probably there were many reasons why God ordained that His incarnate Son should be tempted by men, by the Devil, by circumstances. One of these was to demonstrate His impeccability. Throw a lighted match into a barrel of gunpowder, and there will be an explosion; throw it into a barrel of water, and the match will be quenched. This, in a very crude way, may be taken to illustrate the difference between Satan’s tempting us and his tempting of the God-man. In us, there is that which is susceptible to his ‘fiery darts’; but the Holy One could say, ‘The prince of this world cometh and hath nothing in Me’ (John 14:30). The Lord Jesus was exposed to a far more severe testing and trying than the first Adam was, in order to make manifest His mighty power of resistance.
How is this possible?

“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin” —Hebrews 4:15
 

The Impeccability of Christ by Arthur W. Pink (Highlighted areas are mine~RB)​


We are living in a world of sin, and the fearful havoc it has wrought is evident on every side. How refreshing, then, to fix our gaze upon One who is immaculately holy, and who passed through this scene unspoilt by its evil. Such was the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God incarnate. For thirty-three years He was in immediate contact with sin, yet He was never, to the slightest degree, contaminated. He touched the leper, yet was not defiled, even ceremonially. Just as the rays of the sun shine upon a stagnant pool without being sullied thereby, so Christ was unaffected by the iniquity which surrounded Him. He ‘did no sin’ (1 Pet. 2:22), ‘in Him is no sin’ (1 John 3:5 and contrast 1:8), He ‘knew no sin’ (2 Cor. 5:21), He was ‘without sin’ (Heb. 4:15). He was ‘holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners’ (Heb. 7:26).

But not only was Christ sinless, He was impeccable, that is, incapable of sinning. No attempt to set forth the doctrine of His wondrous and peerless person would be complete, without considering this blessed perfection. Sad indeed is it to behold the widespread ignorance thereon today, and sadder still to hear and read this precious truth denied. The last Adam differed from the first Adam in His impeccability. Christ was not only able to overcome temptation, but He was unable to be overcome by it. Necessarily so, for He was ‘the Almighty’ (Rev. 1:8). True, Christ was man, but He was the God-man, and as such, absolute Master and Lord of all things. Being Master of all things—as His dominion over the winds and waves, diseases and death, clearly demonstrated—it was impossible that anything should master Him.

The immutability of Christ proves His impeccability, or incapability of sinning:
‘Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever’ (Heb. 13:8). Because He was not susceptible to any change, it was impossible for the incarnate Son of God to sin. Herein we behold again His uniqueness. Sinless angels fell, sinless Adam fell: they were but creatures, and creaturehood and mutability are, really, correlative terms. But was not the manhood of Christ created? Yes, but it was never placed on probation, it never had a separate existence. From the very first moment of its conception in the virgin’s womb, the humanity of Christ was taken into union with His Deity; and therefore could not sin.

The omnipotence of Christ proves His impeccability. That the Lord Jesus, even during the days of His humiliation, was possessed of omnipotence, is clear from many passages of Scripture. ‘What things so ever He (the Father) doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise….For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth, even so the Son quickeneth whom He will’ (John 5:19, 21). When we say that Christ possessed omnipotence during His earthly sojourn, we do not mean that He was so endowed by the Holy Spirit, but that He was essentially, inherently, personally, omnipotent. Now to speak of an omnipotent person yielding to sin, is a contradiction in terms. All temptation to sin must proceed from a created being, and hence it is a finite power; but impossible is it for a finite power to overcome omnipotency.

The constitution of Christ’s person proves His impeccability. In Him were united (in a manner altogether incomprehensible to created intelligence) the Divine and the human natures. Now ‘God cannot be tempted with evil’ (James 1:13); ‘it is impossible for God to lie’ (Heb. 6:18). And Christ was ‘God manifest in flesh’ (1 Tim. 3:16); ‘Immanuel’—God with us (Matt. 1:23). Personality centered not in His humanity. Christ was a Divine person, who had been ‘made in the likeness of men’ (Phil. 2:7). Utterly impossible was it, then, for the God-man to sin. To affirm the contrary, is to be guilty of the most awful blasphemy. It is irreverent speculation to discuss what the human nature of Christ might have done if it had been alone. It never was alone; it never had a separate existence; from the first moment of its being it was united to a Divine person.

It is objected to the truth of Christ’s impeccability that it is inconsistent with His temptability. A person who cannot sin, it is argued, cannot be tempted to sin. As well might one reason that because an army cannot be defeated, it cannot be attacked. ‘Temptability depends upon the constitutional susceptibility, while impeccability depends upon the will. So far as His natural susceptibility, both physical and mental, was concerned, Jesus Christ was open to all forms of human temptation, excepting those that spring out of lust, or corruption of nature. But His peccability, or the possibility of being overcome by these temptations, would depend upon the amount of voluntary resistance which He was able to bring to bear against them. Those temptations were very strong, but if the self-determination of His holy will was stronger than they, then they could not induce Him to sin, and He would be impeccable. And yet plainly He would be temptable’ (W.G. Shedd, 1889).

Probably there were many reasons why God ordained that His incarnate Son should be tempted by men, by the Devil, by circumstances. One of these was to demonstrate His impeccability. Throw a lighted match into a barrel of gunpowder, and there will be an explosion; throw it into a barrel of water, and the match will be quenched. This, in a very crude way, may be taken to illustrate the difference between Satan’s tempting us and his tempting of the God-man. In us, there is that which is susceptible to his ‘fiery darts’; but the Holy One could say, ‘The prince of this world cometh and hath nothing in Me’ (John 14:30). The Lord Jesus was exposed to a far more severe testing and trying than the first Adam was, in order to make manifest His mighty power of resistance.
Thanks @Red Baker.

J.
 
@synergy
I take no credit for that as everything good comes from God.
Everything? ............ BUT, Jesus being made a surety for his people~his perfect life of obedience being imputeth to their account....this you think you did for yourself, by your own works, coming from your flesh, apart from God doing one thing to secure your salvation from sin and condemnation. Let's see how far that will get you in that day.
 
We all know that. So how does that answer this question:
Looks like you're going around the same circles I've been following for years.
No answer synergy.

What made Adam sin if the sin nature was not yet in man?

I DO, however, believe we have one now.

I also know God did not put it within us....our soul, I'd say.

So how did it get there?

No answer.
Unless one is calvinist, of course.
They believe God put sin into us.
That God created sin.

We know this cannot be true.
So back to the drawing board.

If you ever get an answer...
keep me in mind.....
:)
 
Looks like you're going around the same circles I've been following for years.
No answer synergy.

What made Adam sin if the sin nature was not yet in man?

I DO, however, believe we have one now.

I also know God did not put it within us....our soul, I'd say.

So how did it get there?

No answer.
Unless one is calvinist, of course.
They believe God put sin into us.
That God created sin.

We know this cannot be true.
So back to the drawing board.

If you ever get an answer...
keep me in mind.....
:)
If the angels sinned even in the very presence of YHWH (cf. Job 15:15; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6), what caused them to fall? What does Scripture reveal about the origin of their rebellion?

J.
 
@synergy

Everything? ............ BUT, Jesus being made a surety for his people~his perfect life of obedience being imputeth to their account....this you think you did for yourself, by your own works, coming from your flesh, apart from God doing one thing to secure your salvation from sin and condemnation. Let's see how far that will get you in that day.
HELP!!!

While this is not addressed to me.... anyone care to address why this is so wrongly stated....

..this you think you did for yourself, by your own works, coming from your flesh, apart from God doing one thing to secure your salvation from sin and condemnation?
 
If the angels sinned even in the very presence of YHWH (cf. Job 15:15; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6), what caused them to fall? What does Scripture reveal about the origin of their rebellion?

J.
The origin does NOT answer the question @synergy is asking.
Did God make the angels with the sin nature?
No. Absolutely not.

So WHAT was in their "soul" that made them sin??

(I guess angels have a soul....not sure).
 
@synergy

Everything? ............ BUT, Jesus being made a surety for his people~his perfect life of obedience being imputeth to their account....this you think you did for yourself, by your own works, coming from your flesh, apart from God doing one thing to secure your salvation from sin and condemnation. Let's see how far that will get you in that day.



What exactly are you saying RB?


Are you saying that since Jesus died on the cross for us...
we are no longer required to DO ANYTHING in regards to our salvation?


Does this mean we do not need to be baptized?
No need to obey God?
No good works for the Kingdom here on earth?
No feeding the poor?
Nothing??


We did not do anything by OURSELVES....
we work with God in order to be pleasing to Him.
In order to do what Jesus stated:
John 14:15
15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.



Which commandments would those be RB??
 
@synergy

Everything? ............ BUT, Jesus being made a surety for his people~his perfect life of obedience being imputeth to their account....this you think you did for yourself, by your own works, coming from your flesh, apart from God doing one thing to secure your salvation from sin and condemnation. Let's see how far that will get you in that day.
Everything good comes from God such as our minds, talents, conscience, heart, will, etc... I could go on and on about what God has gifted us with but you get the point. I'm sure you agree with that so far. So I naturally give God all the glory for all that he has gifted and entrusted us with. Now all that has to be responsibly handled by us through proper employment of our minds, talents, conscience, heart, will, etc... Proper usage of our God-given minds gives us the ability to hear God's word and to act on it. That's what Rom 10:8-13 is all about. By hearing, believing, and acting upon what the word of God says, God promises to seal us with the Holy Spirit (Regeneration), and to predestine us into becoming images of Christ. Even the works that we do are preordained by God so there's no boasting there either. See Eph 2:10.

So, let's back up and look at the terminology you're using. Your terminology is all one sided, biased, self-focused, and boastful. You use words like yourself, your own works, your flesh. Your extreme bias is nothing but strawmen.
 
Back
Top Bottom