An Article on free will

[Jim]

@Jim

Let us correct this: Red, you have been shown told that your interpretation of Ephesians 2:8 is wrong. Jim, I read my bible in the version that my forefathers' trusted in as the very word of God.

That version didn't come into being until the 17th century. We have more and better and some earlier manuscripts now than the KJV translaters had then.

As one well said around four hundred years ago is so still applicable for our day:

I may be a very simple man, but, so be it ~ I'll trust in the word of God that God has so graciously given to us to trust in. It is not even debatable for me.

What information do you have that says the KJV was given by God and others were not?

Jim, my friend, the context drives thsi meaning for us. Take what I said and break it down and prove me wrong, if you can, which I know you cannot~no pun intended. But the wording of Ephesians 2;8,9 demands our interpretations. Jim, what is the gift that is NOT OF OURSELVES? Faith! Who lived in thsi world that it could be said that his faith was perfect, in thought, word and deed? Only ONE, my friend~JESUS CHRIST, the Son of the Living God ~the surety of God's elect.

Salvation is the gift that is NOT OF OURSELVES. That should be obvious. And that gift comes by the grace of God through our faith (Rom 1:17; 3:24).

A couple of questions for you and any on your side of the fence: Was Jesus a surety of God's people? In what way was he so? Was Jesus' faith, righteousness, obedience imputeth to God's elect?

Define what you mean by a "surety of God's people". And no Jesus' faith and obedience was not imputed to God's elect. However, those who have been imputed His righteousness have become His elect. We are never told anywhere that God has imputed Jesus' faith or obedience to us. We are told that God has imputed (credited) His righteousness to us.

Specifically, this righteousness of God is the righteousness of God the Son in the person of Jesus Christ. In fact the main purpose of the incarnation was to establish a divine righteousness that could be used as the basis for justifying sinners. An image frequently used to represent this transfer of righteousness is imputation, which is based on the Greek verb logizomai.

When used in the context of justification, this word derives its meaning from the way it was used by Greeks in the field of business or commerce. It was a technical term that described the procedure of entering a credit or a debit to someone’s account. It is properly translated “to credit, to set down to one’s account, to impute, to reckon, to count as, to regard as.” An illustration of the concept is Paul’s exhortation to Philemon (v. 18) regarding any debt owed to him by his runaway slave Onesimus: “Put that on my account.”

This concept explains what was happening on the cross, and it explains what is happening in justification, when Christ’s righteousness is imputed or credited to us. Exactly what is the righteousness of Christ that is imputed to our account? We will remember that strictly speaking righteousness means “conformity to a norm.” Where salvation from sin is concerned, the relevant norm is the law of God, and justification can happen only when the requirements of the law have been satisfied as mandated by God’s own holy nature. This is what Jesus came to accomplish. In essence the righteousness of God and the basis for our justification is the fact that Jesus satisfied the requirements of the law in our place, and in justification his satisfaction of these requirements is imputed (credited) to our account.

I must step out.......... later. Before God, trust you are doing well ~ thinking of you since you lost your son. I have seen a couple of posts to me from you, but decided to pass on them at the moment.

Thank you Red. My world was turned upside down when Mike died and it is still pretty much upside down. My mind says that he is gone, but my heart continues to feel that he will turn up. People talk about closure. I don't believe in closure. I believe that we just get used to our loved ones being gone never to return to us. I am getting used to Mike's being gone as the days and weeks go by.

 

[synergy]

@MTMattie

You are done because you are not able to defend what you so strongly believe in, and yes, we are at odds, because you believe, and those you have found to quote from, believes that man in his natural flesh "can do spiritual acts" pleasing to God, which God's word clearly refutes.

Nora, if you so clearly see what you believe to be the truth, then you should also be able to defend the same ~but, the truth is, you are confused like so many others, and the religious world has done their magical acts on your heart, leaving you deceived in thinking you are right when you are not even close to being correct. A very strong delusion is upon the hearts of latter day followers of a another Jesus, another gospel motivated by another spirit~the spirit of the mystery of iniquity, that has been at work since the garden of Eden, but is full blown in our day.

We are living in the very midst of, or, toward the end, (God knoweth but hidden from us as far as the length of time) of the little season prophesied here (2nd Thessalonians 2) and by Daniel 7-12; Christ in the Olivet Discourse Matthew 24; Mark 13; and Luke 21; and John in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

No such doctrine (in the word of God) of a man having a free will to do spiritual acts pleasing to God while still in his natural state, not having the Spirit of God, or simple put...not born again. Man's will by nature, is in bondage to sin and its sinful lust ~ he's a child of darkness, and is at enmity against God~this is not my personal opinion, even though I can testify that this is so by my own life's experience, yet this is God's testimony of man by nature, a testimony that we cannot refute, lest we are found liars. There is not one good thing in our natural flesh, "not one", per Romans 3:10-18 written by Paul as he was moved by the Holy Ghost. I'm just repeating scriptures, I'm not the Author of them, God is.

Much of what you have copied and posted (which I'm not against btw if you can defend what you copied and posted) has to do with those already are believers, not sinners from west LA, or, Chicago south side, or from the gangs from around the world that our president is sending back, getting them off of our streets.

Also, you went from defining "desire" to predestination, etc., actually all over the place, so I will forbear continuing with you post.

Our human nature comes straight from God who is a Holy God. Only pagan gods produce sinful things. God does not produce sinful anything, let alone a sin nature. He is not a pagan god that creates sinful things. It is us, as persons, who sin and degrade ourselves.

If human nature is sinful then what does that make Jesus who took up the very same human nature we all have? You just assigned sinfulness to our Holy Savior.

Granted, our bodies do decay and die but that is a consequence of Adam's sin and not because God is in the business of creating sinful nature.

Calvinists wrongly conflate fleshly desires with human flesh nature and make a total mess of things. They are Platonist Heretics that despise matter and the intrinsic value that matter possesses.

 

[Jim]

@MTMattie

You are done because you are not able to defend what you so strongly believe in, and yes, we are at odds, because you believe, and those you have found to quote from, believes that man in his natural flesh "can do spiritual acts" pleasing to God, which God's word clearly refutes.

Nora, if you so clearly see what you believe to be the truth, then you should also be able to defend the same ~but, the truth is, you are confused like so many others, and the religious world has done their magical acts on your heart, leaving you deceived in thinking you are right when you are not even close to being correct. A very strong delusion is upon the hearts of latter day followers of a another Jesus, another gospel motivated by another spirit~the spirit of the mystery of iniquity, that has been at work since the garden of Eden, but is full blown in our day.

We are living in the very midst of, or, toward the end, (God knoweth but hidden from us as far as the length of time) of the little season prophesied here (2nd Thessalonians 2) and by Daniel 7-12; Christ in the Olivet Discourse Matthew 24; Mark 13; and Luke 21; and John in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

No such doctrine (in the word of God) of a man having a free will to do spiritual acts pleasing to God while still in his natural state, not having the Spirit of God, or simple put...not born again. Man's will by nature, is in bondage to sin and its sinful lust ~ he's a child of darkness, and is at enmity against God~this is not my personal opinion, even though I can testify that this is so by my own life's experience, yet this is God's testimony of man by nature, a testimony that we cannot refute, lest we are found liars. There is not one good thing in our natural flesh, "not one", per Romans 3:10-18 written by Paul as he was moved by the Holy Ghost. I'm just repeating scriptures, I'm not the Author of them, God is.

Much of what you have copied and posted (which I'm not against btw if you can defend what you copied and posted) has to do with those already are believers, not sinners from west LA, or, Chicago south side, or from the gangs from around the world that our president is sending back, getting them off of our streets.

Also, you went from defining "desire" to predestination, etc., actually all over the place, so I will forbear continuing with you post.

You have your own definition of doing "spiritual acts pleasing to God". And it is with that definition that you have formulated a false soteriology. But no such definition is to be found in scripture.

You said, "There is not one good thing in our natural flesh, "not one", per Romans 3:10-18 written by Paul as he was moved by the Holy Ghost. I'm just repeating scriptures, I'm not the Author of them, God is".

But in fact Romans 3:10-18 doesn't say that at all. That philosophy of the evil flesh is Gnostic at its core. Yes, it is true that the unregenerated is a slave to sin. But the slave, even while under the control of the slaver, can still have the desire to be free and can believe that there is one who can set him free.

 

[civic]

Our human nature comes straight from God who is a Holy God. Only pagan gods produce sinful things. God does not produce sinful anything, let alone a sin nature. He is not a pagan god that creates sinful things. It is us, as persons, who sin and degrade ourselves.

If human nature is sinful then what does that make Jesus who took up the very same human nature we all have? You just assigned sinfulness to our Holy Savior.

Granted, our bodies do decay and die but that is a consequence of Adam's sin and not because God is in the business of creating sinful nature.

Calvinists wrongly conflate fleshly desires with human flesh nature and make a total mess of things. They are Platonist Heretics that despise matter and the intrinsic value that matter possesses.

Jesus flesh, humanity becomes a stumbling block with their doctrine.

 

[synergy]

Jesus flesh, humanity becomes a stumbling block with their doctrine.

Calvinists are a silly bunch. They're so willing to slash at and degrade God's Holiness all in the name of "guarding" God's sovereignty. They make my head spin.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

What James calls works is the same as what Paul calls "Gods workmanship created to do good works " in Ephesians 2:10 and in other places is called bearing good fruit by Jesus and Paul. One who is born again will produce good fruit, good works as evidence of their salvation. Its the result of being saved, abiding in the Vine as a branch. It is not the means to being saved which is by faith. But salvific faith will result in fruit and or good works that we should walk in them.

hope this helps !!!

Yes Amen.

Those are not salvic works, as in works we do to get saved.

They are works of fruit that people who are born again and secure in christ do.

The problem is people want to use james to support legalism.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I agree that James says faith plus works:

(James 2:24) You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Paul mentions the vital importance of good works (in addition to faith, of course) for one's eternal life in Rom 2:7:

(Rom 2:7) indeed to those who with patience in good work are seeking for glory, and honor, and incorruptibility, everlasting life

Thus, Paul and James are clearly and perfectly aligned without confusion of any sort.

Yes they are aligned

Those who are saved WILL do good works

Those who claim to have faith but have no works. HAVE no faith. hence they are not saved by Grace.

We are saved by Grace thgrough faith not works.

Paul makes it clear in titus. It is not by good deeds (works of righteousness) which we have done, are doing or will do. But by Gods mercy he saved us (a completed act)

Fruit bearing is a byproduct of salvation. Not a downpayment to get saved

 

[Kermos]

No. I LOL ar you,

On the contrary, I quote the Word of God, so I revere the Word of God, but you "laugh out loud" at the Word of God.

I quoted:

​

The Word of God declares “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so Holy Scripture's every occurrence of saving faith is controlled by the love of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:14).​

​

to which you replied "laugh out loud" at the Word of God.

So you believe we are made alive in sin. noted

I believe one is alive in Christ, not sin, when born again, so your statement is anti-truth. The fear of God does not drive you to apologize for this second time you maligned the Holy Spirit imparted faith/belief deposited into my heart by God:

​

I believe the Holy Spirit causes we Christians to be born of God (John 3:3), and during this birthing process we are given belief in the Son whom the Father had sent (John 6:29) along with us being cleansed of sin (John 8:36) along with us being imparted Life in Christ (John 14:6).​

​

No. I believe we are born again by grace, through faith

You owned this statement, @Eternally-Grateful, "belief is how we are saved and born again" (proof post #8,378) which is the exact opposite of Holy Spirit inspired Apostle John's saying "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God" (1 John 5:1).

Now, in utter confusion, you posted "No" about your owned statement, so you don't even know what you believe.

No. I am saved by Grace

You changed from the focal point of "faith" over to "saved" / "grace" in this section, so God causes me to return to the focal point of "faith" in this section. Please read the section here again:

​

You believe that your belief/faith is the work of your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) in direct opposition to the Word of God's declaration “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).​

​

The believe that you see in John 20:31 is entirely the work of God” (John 6:29)!​

​

And, please stay on focus.

Yep. Never said otherwise.

Great, you now admit that you do not control faith/belief in your own free-will because the believe and believing that you see in John 20:31 is entirely "the work of God” (John 6:29)!

I would say that you did convey otherwise when you quoted John 20:31 as recorded in post #8,689, and I will gladly apologize upon your admission that the believe and believing that you see in John 20:31 is devoid of "the work of man" when you wrote:

​

I can add some more​

​

John 20: 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.​

​

Please respond.

Good God man, get over yourself.

You silly false accusations are meaningless.

Your lack of Holy Scripture in your composed post reveals the terminal state of your free-will faith foundation:

​

Since you wrote "Life is through faith. by Grace", then you believe that your dead flesh chooses rightly to enter the Living Lord Jesus Christ, but your belief system is not found in the Holy Scripture! God has me proclaiming that the dead do not choose Life (Luke 12:57).​

​

You have people made alive in sin. You have a God that can not keep his own perfect justice but overrules it. making him an imperfect judge.

before you judge others. Judge yourself

God made me very clear to you, in that, we Christians are made cleanly alive with belief in the Son whom the Father has sent when God causes us to be born again.

Now, our punishment for sin has been satisfied by our Savior on the cross, so God's perfect justice is maintained. God is the perfect Judge. God will mete out His wrath on all that do not believe His Word. His Word is “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes being saved from the wrath of God)!

You believe without your choosing toward God that you would be under punishment from God instead of pleasure, so you believe buy your way into heaven with your fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GIVER OF LIFE!!!

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No good works -> No evidence of salvation -> dead faith.

Dead faith -> No salvation?

(James 2:26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

God does not need to see proof your saved.

James is speaking to people who are hearers only not doers of the word. they claim to have faith but nothing in their life shows they had any real faith at all..

A dead faith does not saved.

They have no works, because they have no faith.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Our human nature comes straight from God who is a Holy God. Only pagan gods produce sinful things. God does not produce sinful anything, let alone a sin nature. He is not a pagan god that creates sinful things. It is us, as persons, who sin and degrade ourselves.

If human nature is sinful then what does that make Jesus who took up the very same human nature we all have? You just assigned sinfulness to our Holy Savior.

Granted, our bodies do decay and die but that is a consequence of Adam's sin and not because God is in the business of creating sinful nature.

Calvinists wrongly conflate fleshly desires with human flesh nature and make a total mess of things. They are Platonist Heretics that despise matter and the intrinsic value that matter possesses.

um God did not create sinful being

He created beings with free will

The sinful nature is a result of sin and a result of being separated from God because of sin (in adam all die)

thats why a natural man can do not good (in Gods eyes) because they spend their lifetime trying to fill the hole that was left when God and man were seperated by the barrier of sin.

 

[MTMattie]

@MTMattie

You are done because you are not able to defend what you so strongly believe in, and yes, we are at odds, because you believe, and those you have found to quote from, believes that man in his natural flesh "can do spiritual acts" pleasing to God, which God's word clearly refutes.

Nora, if you so clearly see what you believe to be the truth, then you should also be able to defend the same ~but, the truth is, you are confused like so many others, and the religious world has done their magical acts on your heart, leaving you deceived in thinking you are right when you are not even close to being correct. A very strong delusion is upon the hearts of latter day followers of a another Jesus, another gospel motivated by another spirit~the spirit of the mystery of iniquity, that has been at work since the garden of Eden, but is full blown in our day.

We are living in the very midst of, or, toward the end, (God knoweth but hidden from us as far as the length of time) of the little season prophesied here (2nd Thessalonians 2) and by Daniel 7-12; Christ in the Olivet Discourse Matthew 24; Mark 13; and Luke 21; and John in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

No such doctrine (in the word of God) of a man having a free will to do spiritual acts pleasing to God while still in his natural state, not having the Spirit of God, or simple put...not born again. Man's will by nature, is in bondage to sin and its sinful lust ~ he's a child of darkness, and is at enmity against God~this is not my personal opinion, even though I can testify that this is so by my own life's experience, yet this is God's testimony of man by nature, a testimony that we cannot refute, lest we are found liars. There is not one good thing in our natural flesh, "not one", per Romans 3:10-18 written by Paul as he was moved by the Holy Ghost. I'm just repeating scriptures, I'm not the Author of them, God is.

Much of what you have copied and posted (which I'm not against btw if you can defend what you copied and posted) has to do with those already are believers, not sinners from west LA, or, Chicago south side, or from the gangs from around the world that our president is sending back, getting them off of our streets.

Also, you went from defining "desire" to predestination, etc., actually all over the place, so I will forbear continuing with you post.

You know what Red.

I dont give a tinker's dam

Today I had to send of the final inheritance things for my mom's estate and I am , not ashamed to say it, in melt down state at the moment.

It is not I that as you say.....You are done because you are not able to defend what you so strongly believe in, and yes, we are at odds, because you believe, and those you have found to quote from, believes that man in his natural flesh "can do spiritual acts" pleasing to God, which God's word clearly refutes.

You say " Nora, if you so clearly see what you believe to be the truth, then you should also be able to defend the same"

I have done that with you for 15 years.

And all I see that supports you are those who keep copy and pasting their old tired arguments against free will. Over and over again.

I have posted scriptures. I have posted examples. and now that I post other opinions you challenge me.

I remember what you said about Billy Graham when he died. I also know that when others have suggested you read from published works such as Jack Cotrell ( suggested by your friend @Jim and mine) I actually bought you a copy and sent it your way which I am sure you put in the trash because you will not consider and opinions other then your own. I remember when you got involved in a debate over Lee Wilsons book, that I also sent to you, without even opening to page one. And 2/3 of that book was on history..........................

You say " that man in his natural flesh "can do spiritual acts" pleasing to God, which God's word clearly refutes."

Is is possible for you, with out flourish or fanfare or even commenting, other then a simple sentence or two to actually post
50 scriptures that supports this.?

Your problem lies with your inability or desire to know what free will is.

While free will allows for meaningful moral decisions, it does not diminish God’s authority or His ability to use every decision to accomplish His overarching plan . Human choices are genuine, yet divine sovereignty remains unimpaired.

I do not believe that anyone thinks that the heavenly Father did not have a "plan" when creation happened.
I fully believe in foreknowledge, but I think you do not or have that confused somehow with your predestined
mind.
True that ,Foreknowledge is often mistaken for forcing an outcome. However, knowing an event in advance is separate from causing that event. In everyday life, observing that someone is about to drop a glass does not cause the glass to be dropped; it merely acknowledges what is happening.

In the same way, God’s perfect knowledge of human decisions is still knowledge, not imposition. His knowing how one will choose does not equate to His overriding that person’s will.

Can you even comprehend the possibility and almost certain truth that God is out side of time and with that
God has a vantage point to a timeless vantage from which He observes the entire course of history at once. Imagine a person atop a mountain who sees all the paths twisting below. The person on the mountain can see any traveler’s route-where they have been and where they are going-yet the hiker is the one actually walking.

Why do you deny this underscores that while God is aware of every choice, humans remain free agents in their actions.

RB can you agree, at least, that Scripture affirms both God’s sovereign knowledge and humanity’s moral responsibility.

Look at James 1:13-14 clarifies that, while God never tempts anyone to sin, individuals are carried away by their own desires.

13No one is to say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
14But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. (FREE WILL)

Acts 2:23 teaches that Jesus’ crucifixion was part of God’s deliberate plan, yet the people involved acted with genuine personal agency.

23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

The interplay between divine knowledge and human freedom is a consistent biblical theme that elevates the significance of moral accountability.

I will conclude this this morning with

If God created humans only as automatons forced to love or obey Him, no genuine relationship would exist. A hallmark of authentic relating is the capacity to choose. Only when choice is real can love be realized in a meaningful way

Matthew 22:37 And He said to him, “’YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’

This emphasized that though scripture and evidence suggest humans have genuine freedom, God’s Spirit still influences hearts and minds
Romans 2:4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

. This influence, however, differs from coercion. The Holy Spirit prompts and convicts, but individuals can either yield or resist. This active dynamic preserves free decision-making.... IOW free will.

Now I am leaving for the post office. I may or may not continue when I come back.

 

[synergy]

um God did not create sinful being

He created beings with free will

The sinful nature is a result of sin and a result of being separated from God because of sin (in adam all die)

thats why a natural man can do not good (in Gods eyes) because they spend their lifetime trying to fill the hole that was left when God and man were seperated by the barrier of sin.

If human nature is sinful then what does that make Jesus who took up the very same human nature we all have? You do realize that the belief that human nature is sinful ascribes sinfulness to our Holy Savior.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

If human nature is sinful then what does that make Jesus who took up the very same human nature we all have?

Jesus did not take up the same human nature.

I was born dead.

Jesus was born spiritually alive.

He never had origional sin or the sin nature.

You do realize that the belief that human nature is sinful ascribes sinfulness to our Holy Savior.

No it does not.

Again, Jesus did not have a nature to sin, or the sin nature

he was born as adam was created. free of sin, and without the nature to sin.

You and I did not have that luxury

 

[synergy]

Yes they are aligned

Those who are saved WILL do good works

Those who claim to have faith but have no works. HAVE no faith. hence they are not saved by Grace.

We are saved by Grace thgrough faith not works.

Paul makes it clear in titus. It is not by good deeds (works of righteousness) which we have done, are doing or will do. But by Gods mercy he saved us (a completed act)

Fruit bearing is a byproduct of salvation. Not a downpayment to get saved

Both James and Paul are most certainly aligned in the following fashion:

No good works -> No evidence of salvation -> dead faith -> no justification

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Those who do not combine good works with their faith are the ones not justified.

It's interesting that the only Sola Fide verse in the entire Bible hits hard against Sola Fide.

 

[Red Baker]

@Jim

Thank you Red. My world was turned upside down when Mike died and it is still pretty much upside down. My mind says that he is gone, but my heart continues to feel that he will turn up. People talk about closure. I don't believe in closure. I believe that we just get used to our loved ones being gone never to return to us. I am getting used to Mike's being gone as the days and weeks go by.

Neither do I believe in closure ~Taylor my oldest grandson died five years ago, and I still missed him.

Same here, you do get used to them being gone but the hurt no one can get used to.

 

[synergy]

Jesus did not take up the same human nature.
I was born dead.
Jesus was born spiritually alive.
He never had origional sin or the sin nature.
No it does not.
Again, Jesus did not have a nature to sin, or the sin nature
he was born as adam was created. free of sin, and without the nature to sin.
You and I did not have that luxury

So now there are multiple human natures out there? This means Jesus didn’t have a complete human nature as ours, making his humanity unlike ours which undermines the full humanity of Christ. Do you seriously want to go with that?

 

[Red Baker]

@MTMattie

I remember what you said about Billy Graham when he died. I also know that when others have suggested you read from published works such as Jack Cotrell ( suggested by your friend @Jim and mine) I actually bought you a copy and sent it your way which I am sure you put in the trash because you will not consider and opinions other then your own.

Thanks for sending he book I still have the book, and did read much of it, but that's been a few years now and cannot remember much what I did read, other than know that he is from the Church of Christ and defended their teachings on water baptism~a position that you do not even beleive in, as I do not.

I remember when you got involved in a debate over Lee Wilsons book, that I also sent to you, without even opening to page one.

I do not think you sent that book, but will double check, but, I strongly reject that Jesus was a married man ~married to Mary Magdalene~pure heresy. He wrote the book more for profit than to teach others truth, I have no respect for the man, and make no bones about it. He's an hireling, pure and simple.\

And 2/3 of that book was on history..........................

Yes, the way he interprets history !

 

[Jim]

@Jim

Neither do I believe in closure ~Taylor my oldest grandson died five years ago, and I still missed him.

Same here, you do get used to them being gone but the hurt no one can get used to.

Yes!!

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Both James and Paul are most certainly aligned in the following fashion:

No good works -> No evidence of salvation -> dead faith -> no justification

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Those who do not combine good works with their faith are the ones not justified.

It's interesting that the only Sola Fide verse in the entire Bible hits hard against Sola Fide.

Your trying to add works as a requirment of salvation. it is not.

James speaks of justification before men.. Again, God does not need proof. He knows if your faith is real.

Sola Fida??? Get off religion. look to the word and see what the word says

Paul said we are saved by grace alone in eph 2. But this salvation is through faith

Paul said it is not by works we are saved, but by faith in romans 4 and titus 3.

Your taking james out of context. and trying to add legalism to the gospel

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So now there are multiple human natures out there?

Was jesus born with the sin nature yes or no??

This means Jesus didn’t have a complete human nature as ours, making his humanity unlike ours which undermines the full humanity of Christ. Do you seriously want to go with that?

Actually yes he did.

He did not have the SIN NATURE.

Human nature and sin nature are two different things

Adam was created with a human nature. he was not created with a sin nature.. Christ was born that way.