There is clearly a misunderstanding between you and me.
J.
I do not classify this as a misunderstanding between you and me for a variety of reasons. Whether you are saying you are personally capable of 1% or 90% or some fraction of the good work of faith then you are claiming ownership of that exact percentage of that which is truly owned by God because the good work of faith is the fruit of the Holy Spirit (
Galatians 5:22-23).
I believe the love of Christ's control penetrates so deep into us Christians that even our will/volition is under our Father's loving care for the Holy Spirit assures us
it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure (
Philippians 2:13) and the Word of God assures us “
you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (
John 15:16) and “
I chose you out of the world” (
John 15:19, includes salvation).
You don't have the good in you apart from God to even budge one tenth of 1% towards God because "
No one is good except God alone (Lord Jesus Christ,
Mark 10:18). You either believe the Word of God or you don't believe the Word of God.
Exalting myself over and above the Holy Spirit?
J.
Yes, you exalt yourself over the Holy Spirit by claiming ownership of some percentage of the good work of faith when the Word of God says your claim is not so with “
he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (
John 3:21). You either believe Christ or you don't believe Christ.
@Kermos , I appreciate your attempt to interact with my position, but your statement misunderstands both the theological issue at hand and the actual meaning of Isaiah 43:13, which you have cited.
First, when you quote Isaiah 43:13 ("Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?"), it is important to observe the context carefully. This passage speaks of YHWH's sovereign action in redeeming and protecting
Israel from national enemies; it is not addressing the matter of an individual's moral response to God's salvific call. The entire flow of Isaiah 43 is about
God's covenant faithfulness to Israel-- about deliverance from Babylonian exile--
not about personal salvation in a New Covenant sense.
The Word of God can say one sentence such as “
Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?” (
Isaiah 43:13) with more than one message topic covered by that sentence.
Nonetheless, the Word of God did not specifically say "Israel" or "Jacob" in (
Isaiah 43:13) as often occurs, in fact, even in the nearby passage of "
I am YHWH your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior" (
Isaiah 43:3), so the "
none" and "
who" mentioned in (
Isaiah 43:13) is not constrained to Israel in this sense.
We of the true Israel (
Romans 9:6,
Romans 11:11-36),
Matthew 15:24) are owned by our Redeemer,
the Holy One of Israel, our
Savior (
Isaiah 43:1). We Christians do not
let God do anything for God is Almighty!
You wrote "
The entire flow of Isaiah 43 is about God's covenant faithfulness to Israel-- about deliverance from Babylonian exile-- not about personal salvation in a New Covenant sense", yet Holy Spirit inspired Apostle Paul wrote "
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come" (
2 Corinthians 5:17) which is a clean reference to "
Do not call to mind the former things, or ponder things of the past. Behold, I will do something new, Now it will spring forth; Will you not be aware of it? I will even make a roadway in the wilderness, Rivers in the desert" (
Isaiah 43:18-19). The Apostle Paul quotes the Prophet Isaiah verbatim in the book of Romans with respect to salvation, for example, see
Romans 11:26 in which individuals who comprise Israel are saved.
Isaiah 43 carries a message about personal salvation in a New Covenant sense.
Do you
really want to exclude yourself from the blessings to us Christians contained in the Word of God recorded in Isaiah 43?
Second, the Hebrew verb translated "let" in the KJV is מֵשִׁיב (mēšîḇ), from the root שׁוּב (šûb), meaning "to turn back" or "reverse," not "permit" or "allow." The meaning of Isaiah 43:13 is that no one can undo or reverse God's sovereign work of deliverance. It is not teaching that human beings cannot resist God’s moral commands or refuse His appeals. Even a basic consultation of standard Hebrew lexicons, such as Brown-Driver-Briggs (p. 996), will verify this.
I am aware that
the Hebrew verb translated "let" in the KJV is מֵשִׁיב (mēšîḇ), from the root שׁוּב (šûb), meaning "to turn back" or "reverse," not "permit" or "allow."
When the word
let is replaced by the word
reverse, the intensity amplifies man's dependence upon God instead of amplifying God's dependence upon man:
Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall reverse it?
(
Isaiah 43:13)
Man is incapable of delivering himself out of God's Hand, for good or ill, so man cannot even let/allow the work of God.
Furthermore, none can reverse/turn back the work of God, so man cannot even let/allow the work of God.
You never
let God do anything for God is Almighty!
Third, by conflating God's sovereign acts in history with the commands given to individuals regarding salvation, you commit a category error.
You are applying a verse about God's unstoppable historical actions on behalf of Israel to a completely different context -[proof-texting] the human response to God's invitations and imperatives concerning salvation and sanctification.
Scripture everywhere makes clear that human beings are genuinely commanded to respond. For example, Acts 17:30 states, "God now commands all men everywhere to repent," using the Greek present infinitive μετανοεῖν (metanoein), indicating an ongoing necessity for human response.
You wrote "
Scripture everywhere makes clear that human beings are genuinely commanded to respond according to man's free-will ability", and you quoted as your proof text "
God now commands all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30) with no regard for God's Sovereignty in man's repentance as per the Word of God “
I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (
Matthew 11:25), and the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “
Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (
Acts 11:18); furthermore, the Apostles did not say "
God now commands all men everywhere in their own free-will ability to repent" in Acts 17:30 as you portray; moreover, a command does not impart ability, but a command does expose fruit (
Romans 7:7).
Fourth, the relationship between God's work and man's response is not a matter of either-or, as you seem to suggest.
Philippians 2:12–13 makes this beautifully clear: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do according to His good pleasure."
Notice that Paul uses κατεργάζεσθε (katergazesthe), an imperative commanding the believer’s active participation, even while affirming that it is God (ὁ θεός) who is at work (ἐνεργῶν, energōn) within.
Your heart's "
the relationship between God's work and man's response is not a matter of either-or, as you seem to suggest" with respect to Philippians 2:12-13, but I am not suggesting because God has me here proclaiming this Truth (John 14:6).
Holy Spirit inspired Apostle Paul :
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure
(
Philippians 2:12-13)
Paul expresses that
obeyed is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Paul expresses that
work out your salvation is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Do not be deceived, the good work of faith is wholly authored and perfected in us Christians (
Hebrews 12:2) by the Power of God (
1 Corinthians 1:24).
Fifth, when I said that a person must "respond to the imperatives" or "let" God work in them,I is not suggesting that God is somehow weak or dependent.
Rather, I am respecting the Biblical reality that God calls people to willingly cooperate with His grace. Throughout Scripture, God issues real commands — "seek," "repent," "believe," "choose life" — and holds individuals accountable for their response.
If your view were correct, then all such imperatives would be meaningless formalities, which would be both absurd and contrary to the overwhelming testimony of Scripture.
Sixth, the Old Testament itself affirms the necessity of human response to God's initiatives. Isaiah 55:6–7 says, "Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near."
The Hebrew verb דִּרְשׁוּ (diršû), translated "seek," is a piel imperative — an emphatic command requiring volitional human action.
Similarly, in Deuteronomy 30:19, God says, "I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life." Again, a real choice, a real call for human decision.
You believe "
God calls people to willingly cooperate with His grace. Throughout Scripture, God issues real commands — 'seek'"; in contrast,
I believe "
no one seeks for God" (
Romans 3:11).
Paul continued with an explanation of the purpose God's commands (
imperatives is the word you used) with "
by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin" (
Romans 3:20).
And, Holy Spirit inspired Apostle Peter explains man's inability "
to willingly cooperate" with God by complying with God's commands when Peter said "
Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (
Acts 15:10).
Seventh, if we turn to early Christian sources, the same principle holds. Justin Martyr wrote, "We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and rewards are rendered according to the merit of each man's actions... and if the human race does not have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, then they are not accountable for their actions" (First Apology 43).
This was the clear understanding of the pre-Augustinian Church: human response is real, not illusory.
You turn to a person for your answers who is not the Word of God.
Finally, when you assert that God's work does not depend on human response, you seem to collapse into a deterministic view that Scripture simply does not endorse.
From Genesis to Revelation, the Bible preserves a tension: God initiates, God enables, but God also commands, pleads, and invites, expecting a real human response — and holding individuals accountable when they resist (e.g., Ezekiel 18:30–32, where YHWH passionately urges, "Turn and live").
In summary, your appeal to Isaiah 43:13 does not support your point. Instead, it misapplies a passage about historical-national deliverance to a discussion about personal salvific responsibility. The full counsel of Scripture affirms both God's sovereign initiative and man's genuine obligation to respond — without contradiction, without confusion, and without undermining either side.
Brother, do not remain entangled in a narrow company of thought; come out from among them, and let you and I reason together, with open hearts and with the Scriptures as our sure guide.
Johann.
I flat out reject your preaching of "
do not remain entangled in a narrow company" because my Company, my Companion, my Savior, my God, the only Way, the absolute Truth, the everlasting Life, my Lord Jesus Christ tells me "
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it" (
Matthew 7:13-14).
In summary, you believe that you must complete the work of faith. I believe
He who began a good work in you, will complete it (
Philippians 1:6).
You believe "Titus 2:11
all men obviously refers to everyone" (proof
post #7,281) leads to the following situation for fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers in relation to God according to your free-will belief:
- God brought salvation to Tom, independently before Tom heard of God. if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
- God brought salvation to Nancy, independently before Nancy heard of God. if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
- The conclusion: Christ's salvation succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ's salvation failed in saving Nancy of the world.
Your belief system leads to an unbiblical end.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (
Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (
John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE EMMANUEL!!!
