An Article on free will

[GodsGrace]

I am sorry but you are incorrect. One can believe the Bible presents the truth and yet not place their trust and confidence in what it says.

Hmmm.
I concede that this could be the case.
One can know the bible is teaching truth and MENTALLY believe what it states but, for one reason or another, decides to do their will instead of the Father's will.

It's just that when I think of the word BELIEVE...the Greek meaning comes to mind.
You know...even the demons believe....this is a MENTAL belief, but the bible, written in Greek, speaks of a belief that goes to the heart.

 

[Red Baker]

@synergy

You're asking me if I believe in OSAS? No, I do not.

Neither do I understanding how the words save/saved/salvation are used by the Holy Ghost. BUT I do believe in Once Loved Always Loved! Praise be to God for his great love wherewith he loved his own even while they were dead in sins and trespasses!

Ephesians 2:4,5​

“But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved"

 

[Johann]

Hi Johann,
I just PM'd @Administrator and he changed the font size to 18 !
It should be much easier to read.
Nice that you brought this up.

All credit to the @Administrator truly an exceptionally patient man.

Hi Johann,
I just PM'd @Administrator and he changed the font size to 18 !
It should be much easier to read.
Nice that you brought this up.

 

[civic]

All credit to the @Administrator truly an exceptionally patient man.

I think it looks good especially for those of us with old eyes

 

[Johann]

I think it looks good especially for those of us with old eyes

Amen.

J.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Hmmm.
I concede that this could be the case.
One can know the bible is teaching truth and MENTALLY believe what it states but, for one reason or another, decides to do their will instead of the Father's will.

It's just that when I think of the word BELIEVE...the Greek meaning comes to mind.
You know...even the demons believe....this is a MENTAL belief, but the bible, written in Greek, speaks of a belief that goes to the heart.

Hi Godgrace.

I appreciate your point.

In the Bible the context of “believe” is always to take action.
To understand this, we must think in how a father, or a teacher, or a physician, or a king, or a messenger of a king, expects to be believed. These roles expect to be obeyed.

If I am telling a group of people to do something new or differently, and I ask them “Believe me !” I m not saying I’m interested in they acknowledging my nationality, gender and personal biography.
When I tell them “Believe me!” I am telling them “Pay heed to what I’m telling you. Do as I say! “

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Godgrace.

I appreciate your point.

In the Bible the context of “believe” is always to take action.
To understand this, we must think in how a father, or a teacher, or a physician, or a king, or a messenger of a king, expects to be believed. These roles expect to be obeyed.

If I am telling a group of people to do something new or differently, and I ask them “Believe me !” I m not saying I’m interested in they acknowledging my nationality, gender and personal biography.
When I tell them “Believe me!” I am telling them “Pay heed to what I’m telling you. Do as I say! “

Amen to that!
I know some on these forums that do not seem to understand this very simple point but
will debate it ad infinitum. ( I mean about believing and obeying).

And BTW,,,where you been??
(NY lingo!).

 

[Red Baker]

@GodsGrace

It's just that I've been married A REALLY LONG TIME!

Good for you~I'm pushing sixty years together with my wife, we first met when we were very, very young, in Hi School in the tenth grade, been together every since. It has worked great, the the simple rule is: "Honey, be reasonable and do it my way"!

Actually, we have followed the word of God, with each knowing their God ordained role to have a godly marriage, guided by biblical principles that's pleasing unto him.

 

[Red Baker]

@synergy

Can faith (and salvation) start before one hears the Gospel?

You are guilty of integrating two words together when they must be separated as two different subjects altogether.

Faith and salvation from sin and condemnation, are not one and the same subject, not even close~besides, salvation/save/saved is a word within itself, that has several biblical meanings as was proven above already, and then you add faith to that, it truly confuses the minds of those seeking the truth.

Now, to make this a simple question, you should ask: "can one be born again, before that person hears the gospel"? and the answer to that question is: Faith "FOLLOWS" regeneration, every single time, there are "NO" exceptions. Dead men do not see, hear, and have faith~impossible to think otherwise~unless you are a confused liberal person who refuses to use a little common sense to reach a sound logical conclusion.

 

[Johann]

Hi Godgrace.

I appreciate your point.

In the Bible the context of “believe” is always to take action.
To understand this, we must think in how a father, or a teacher, or a physician, or a king, or a messenger of a king, expects to be believed. These roles expect to be obeyed.

If I am telling a group of people to do something new or differently, and I ask them “Believe me !” I m not saying I’m interested in they acknowledging my nationality, gender and personal biography.
When I tell them “Believe me!” I am telling them “Pay heed to what I’m telling you. Do as I say! “

Absolutely, a command to be promptly obeyed, no questions asked.

J.

 

[synergy]

@synergy

You are guilty of integrating two words together when they must be separated as two different subjects altogether.

Faith and salvation from sin and condemnation, are not one and the same subject, not even close~besides, salvation/save/saved is a word within itself, that has several biblical meanings as was proven above already, and then you add faith to that, it truly confuses the minds of those seeking the truth.

Now, to make this a simple question, you should ask: "can one be born again, before that person hears the gospel"? and the answer to that question is: Faith "FOLLOWS" regeneration, every single time, there are "NO" exceptions. Dead men do not see, hear, and have faith~impossible to think otherwise~unless you are a confused liberal person who refuses to use a little common sense to reach a sound logical conclusion.

Here we go again with the Calvinist idea that one can be Regenerated (alive) but not yet a believer (still dead in sins). That's Calvinism's Living Dead theology, a Zombie monstrosity.

Every Calvinist Congregation at night could be deemed the Night of the Living Dead.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

Good for you~I'm pushing sixty years together with my wife, we first met when we were very, very young, in Hi School in the tenth grade, been together every since. It has worked great, the the simple rule is: "Honey, be reasonable and do it my way"!

Actually, we have followed the word of God, with each knowing their God ordained role to have a godly marriage, guided by biblical principles that's pleasing unto him.

Same here.
Lucky are we!
Few there be....
nowadays.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here we go again with the Calvinist idea that one can be Regenerated (alive) but not yet a believer (still dead in sins). That's Calvinism's Living Dead theology, a Zombie monstrosity.

Every Calvinist Congregation at night could be deemed the Night of the Living Dead.

Too funny synergy!
The living dead is right.
One is either dead or alive....
Calvinism makes a person to be both simultaneously.
As I like to say:
Calvinist theology believes one must be born again before he can be born again.

 

[Johann]

Here we go again with the Calvinist idea that one can be Regenerated (alive) but not yet a believer (still dead in sins). That's Calvinism's Living Dead theology, a Zombie monstrosity.

Every Calvinist Congregation at night could be deemed the Night of the Living Dead.

Are there examples in Scripture where the Holy Spirit moved upon individuals in a non-regenerative/regenerative manner--i.e., instances where the Spirit’s activity did not result in or signify spiritual rebirth or saving faith?

J.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Define what you mean by "work". Is it "works of the Law", "good works", any effort exerted by humans, "work of faith", "labor of love", etc..... ?

A work is something you do to earn a wage. It is something you do to earn a reward.

An Olympian works hard in order to try to win a medal
An employee works to earn his wage
A husband (hopefully) works to take care of his family and earn their love and gratitude
A Christian works to produce fruit. to earn rewards. we are told we will get crowns, Gold silver and precious stone. And sadly, we may earn wood hay and straw.

Paul says in eph, we are saved by Grace through faith (NOT WORKS) lest anyone should boast
Paul says it is not by works of righteousness (good works) by which we have been saved, but by Gods mercy

Salvation is a gift. you can not work for it. You can not work to get it. To keep it. and you can not fail to work to the point you lose it.

That would make salvation a reward. and you could boast.


Paul; says it best in Romans.. It does not matter if your under law or not. It is of faith so it could be of grace.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

We also have the defenition of faith here. Abraham was fully covinced God would keep his promise

God has given us many promises also

1. We will have eternal life. and never perish
2. We have passed from death to life
3. We will not be judged
4. We have his spirit given as a seal until our ressurection
5. He will never leave nor forrsake us
6. He will never lose us
7. We will be ressurected.

are you fully convinced of these truths. That God is able to do this?

if so. Your faith will be accounted to you as perfect righteousness. And the ressurection and death of Christ will be applied to your account as justification

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I was saved at a point in time back in 1980. That’s when I was born again by receiving Christ as my Lord/ Savior confessing my sins , repenting and began following Him daily as a disciple.

Losing one’s salvation is a hot topic and there are believers , pastors , theologians on both sides of the fence.

Sadly there is only one gospel.. they both can not be right.

 

[civic]

Sadly there is only one gospel.. they both can not be right.

I agree one side is right

 

[Johann]

I agree one side is right

The question is-- which "side" is correct? I'm not referring to Arminians, Calvinists, or the over 45,000 different denominations, but rather, which perspective aligns most faithfully with the Bible and truly lives out the imperatives of Christ?

That is the crux of the issue.

J.

 

[Jim]

In the Bible the context of “believe” is always to take action.

No, that is not true. There are many occasions where the word πιστεύω [pisteuō] does not mean to take action but rather means only to acknowledge the truth of what is being presented.

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

In this verse there is no action being implied. Clearly, Jesus is simply questioning their acknowledgement and acceptance of the truth of what He is telling them. If you do a word search, you will find many places where only mental assent is meant. On the other hand there are other occasions where both mental assent and trust or confidence is meant. Consider

John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
John 9:36 He answered, "And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?"

Here in both verses we see the words πιστεύσω εἰς [pisteuō eis] meaning to believe in. Here the intent is to acknowledge the truth and place trust in the Son of Man. Combinations of pisteuō en or pisteuō epi also translated as believe in can be found.

Consider John 11:25-26.

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,
John 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

Here we see both believe in, i.e., mental assent and trust, and believe, i.e., simply mental assent, being implied.

There are other occasions where the meaning of the verse or passage is clearly to believe in where the Greek word for in is omitted.

The above has addressed only the verb form of the word. I won't bother here to address the noun form.

 

[civic]

The question is-- which "side" is correct? I'm not referring to Arminians, Calvinists, or the over 45,000 different denominations, but rather, which perspective aligns most faithfully with the Bible and truly lives out the imperatives of Christ?

That is the crux of the issue.

J.

Actually neither side is 100% correct but one is much better than the other in soteriology.