An Article on free will

[Dizerner]

Red didn't deny hell. He just gave you his opinion, different from your opinion, of what hell is or will be.

Okay, let's take that to its logical conclusion.

I define God as my cat.

"I didn't deny God, I just gave you my opinion different from your opinion on what God is."

I define free will as having no choice.

"I didn't deny free will, I just gave you my opinion different from your opinion on what free will is."

I define Jesus as an alien.

"I didn't deny Jesus, I just gave my opinion different from your opinion on what Jesus is."


An Annihiliationist denies the Biblical description of hell, and replaces it with non-existence, which is a relief to a lifetime of sin.

John the Baptist said "Flee the wrath to come!" and not "Flee the existential poof to come!"

 

[Jim]

Okay, let's take that to its logical conclusion.

I define God as my cat.

"I didn't deny God, I just gave you my opinion different from your opinion on what God is."

I define free will as having no choice.

"I didn't deny free will, I just gave you my opinion different from your opinion on what free will is."

I define Jesus as an alien.

"I didn't deny Jesus, I just gave my opinion different from your opinion on what Jesus is."


An Annihiliationist denies the Biblical description of hell, and replaces it with non-existence, which is a relief to a lifetime of sin.

John the Baptist said "Flee the wrath to come!" and not "Flee the existential poof to come!"

The perfect example of a terribly irrational argument.

 

[Kermos]

Here it is @Kermos


In Deuteronomy 30:19, the Hebrew word translated “choose” is:

בָּחַר (bāchar) – Strong’s H977
Lexical Definition
Root Meaning: to choose, elect, select, prefer

Primary Sense: to deliberately decide upon something from among alternatives, often with significant moral, relational, or covenantal implications.

Grammatical and Contextual Detail in Deuteronomy 30:19
Hebrew Phrase:

וּבָחַרְתָּ בַּחַיִּים (uḇāḥartā baḥayyim)
“And you shall choose life”

Verb Form:
וּבָחַרְתָּ is Qal perfect 2nd person masculine singular, indicating a direct appeal to the will of the individual hearer.

Mood & Intent:
Though the verb is in the perfect tense, it is used imperatively in this exhortative context, equivalent to a command or strong appeal:
→ “You must choose life.”

Does It Imply Human Response? - Absolutely.
The verb בָּחַר is used repeatedly in contexts that require a conscious, moral, and covenantal response from the human subject.

In Deuteronomy 30:15–20, Moses sets two real choices before Israel—life or death, blessing or cursing—then pleads:

“Therefore choose life, that you and your seed may live.”

This is not a hypothetical appeal but a genuine, divinely ordained opportunity to respond. The human party is expected to respond freely and responsibly to the covenant offer.

Usage in Scripture
God’s choosing: bāchar is also used for God’s electing acts, such as choosing Israel (Deut 7:6), David (1 Sam 16:8–10), or Zion (Ps 132:13).

Human choosing: The word is equally used of human decisions (Josh 24:15 – “choose this day whom you will serve”; Isa 56:4 – “choose the things that please me”).

In each case, volition and moral responsibility are at the center of the verb’s use.

You already know my view regarding free will- it is not an autonomous faculty to be exercised independently, but one that must be entirely yielded to the will of Christ and governed by the Holy Spirit. Thus, what we often call "free will" is more accurately described as the alignment of human volition with both the βουλή (boule)-that is, the counsel or deliberate intention (cf. Acts 2:23; Luke 7:30)—and the θέλημα (thelēma)—the moral will or desire (cf. Ephesians 1:5, Romans 12:2)—of God, as both are made manifest through the Spirit.

I do not see myself as a passive αὐτόματον (automaton, cf. the root of the English “automaton”), but rather as a willing participant, actively cooperating with the Spirit’s leading. The Spirit guides, convicts, and empowers—but I must still respond to the imperatives placed upon me (cf. Deuteronomy 30:19, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:12–13).

Would you not say the biblical imperatives presuppose both divine influence and human response? @Kermos?

I respect you brother.

J.

Johann, I agree the concept of "choose" is recorded in:

​

I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants​

(Deuteronomy 30:19)​

​

Several crucial points exist:

• Moses is recorded as speaking, not God, so Deuteronomy 30:19 failed to disqualify "No Word of God states man was imparted free-will, so free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9)" as to the orator.
• Moses commanded the people to "choose life in order that you may live" yet Moses did not command the people to "choose God", so Deuteronomy 30:19 failed to disqualify "Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ" and "No Word of God states man was imparted free-will, so free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9)" as to man choosing God.
• Moses words are absent of "exercise your ability to free-will" such that "So exercise your ability to free-will choose life", so so Deuteronomy 30:19 failed to disqualify "No Word of God states man was imparted free-will, so free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9)" as to man's purported free-will ability to do the good of choose life.
• Moses words contain the inherent adversarial nature of his command with the concept of against as part of his oration with I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, he did not say "for you" as an indicator toward potential successful choosing of life but rather he said against you to a people who did not do the good of choose life as per the exile (Matthew 1:11), so Deuteronomy 30:19 failed to disqualify "Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ" and "No Word of God states man was imparted free-will, so free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9)" as to man free-will choosing good over evil.

The following example uses the second person, but I use "you" generically, here.

Commands Expose Good And Evil - Not Inherent Capability Conveyance - A Hypothetical Example​

A hypothetical example, on Monday evening you take your lovely wife a hot bowl of delicious oatmeal while she's sitting on the couch, and she places the bowl on a pillow on her lap. Then your talking and toddling son sees the bowl of delicous oatmeal, and he wants some, so he shoots across the floor to the couch, and he excitedly grabs the rim of the hot bowl letting out a shrieking scream of pain from the hot bowl.

After applying soothing cream to the wound, both you and your wife explain the difference between hot and cold. You explain that hot can cause burns and pain. "Do not touch hot things" you command your son.

You continue by declaring "Your mommy and I can work around hot things to prepare and serve food, but you cannot, my love". The sobbing stops, and you all eat your dinner.

On Tuesday morning, you have the iron skillet on the stove, the gas fire keeping the iron skillet sizzling hot for a family pancake breakfast. The top of the stove radiates very HOT too, so you are sensitive to your son's current absence from the kitchen.

Your son toddles into the kitchen. You say "honey, the stove is hot, hotter than the bowl of oatmeal last night. If you touch the stove, then you'll get burned again. If you stay over there, then you'll be just fine." Then you smell that the pancake is about to burn unless you flip it, so you scrape the pancake, raise it, flip it, and you watch it drop - but as it drops, you see your precious son's hand grasp the extremely hot stove iron grill flame cover. In a flash, you dunk your excruciatingly pained and screaming child's hand in a glass of cold water, add ice, turn off the stove, examine the wound through the glass, and ...

The morals of the story:

1. Monday night's command did not convey ability. The command expressed safe action - or said another way safe inaction.
2. Monday night's declaration conveyed capabilities being that you could work around hot items while your son could not work around hot items. It is crucial to discern the exclusive nature of the declarative; one party can do something while the other party cannot do the same thing.
3. Tuesday morning's IF/THEN logic conditionals did not convey ability. Each conditional expressed the results of actions.
4. You cared deeply enough to help.
5. Your son was driven by his desires - his lusts, and he disregarded your instruction; in other words, his lusts were manifest by his action.
6. Your son's nature was to defy you despite (1) the command, (2) the declaration, and (3) the conditionals; in other words, the fruit of his nature were visible.
7. Your son was in rebellion against you.

Point 2 is a parallel - a remote shadow at best, to when the Lord Jesus' says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, also John 15:13-15 about love and friends). It is crucial to discern the exclusive nature of the declarative; one party can do something while the other party cannot do the same thing; in other words, men cannot choose God while God chooses men.

Point 4 is analagous, a shadow at best, to how the Father in heaven causes the "sun to rise on [the] evil and [the] good, and sends rain on [the] righteous and [the] unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45).

Points 5 and 6 are analagous to the evilness of man as default nature. "No one is good except God alone" (The Word of God, Mark 10:18).

The example is concluded.

Commands do not convey ability; rather, commands expose the desires of the person, more specifically the heart of the person, even fruit of the person by the outcome of the person's actions.

One Way and one Way only (John 14:6) exists for man to respond in good to God, and this Way is ’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works in Christ for us Christians
“he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

Now, the above addressed your question "Would you not say the biblical imperatives presuppose both divine influence and human response", so I now ask you a question.

You believe "Titus 2:11 all men obviously refers to everyone" (proof post #7,281) leads to the following situation for fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers in relation to God according to your free-will belief:

• God brought salvation to Tom, independently before Tom heard of God. if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• God brought salvation to Nancy, independently before Nancy heard of God. if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
• The conclusion: Christ's salvation succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ's salvation failed in saving Nancy of the world.

Does condemned to hell Nancy have Christ's salvation? Tied to this question is your belief that Nancy is part of all men per (Titus 2:11) obviously refers to everyone.

 

[Johann]

Johann, I agree the concept of "choose" is recorded in:
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants

Great, we are making inroads! And no-I am not a universalist.

J.

 

[Muckah]

@Muckah

I'm not here to defend a man, yet I will not sit by idling and not speak when someone speaks ill about a servant of God in the past who is not here to defend himself. You are speaking as though you knew him personally which you do not. I have read much behind Calvin over the last fifty years or so, and have found him to be just the opposite of what you are saying.

He did not take pleasure in seeing Michael Servetus burned, and truly had no part in that decision, read you history books which you obviously have not taken the pains to do.

I actually agree with some of Michael Servetus' understanding of the trinity what little we know, since all of his writings were burned with him, which was the case with so many martyrs in the past.

And you know that to be true? It shows how little you do know, since there is no such place as a present burning hellfire! Prove it if you think you can, I'm convinced you cannot! There will be a lake of fire, which is the second death where the wicked shall "forever" PERISH, but that's after the last day when all the wicked shall be resurrected to face the judgement of God and THEN be sentenced to perish forever.

So John must be soul sleeping in God's waiting room.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment (2 Peter 2:4)
The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side (Luke 16:22-23)

 

[Red Baker]

@Dizerner

Do you deny Calvin wrote:

"Si venerit, modo valeat mea autoritas, vivum exire nunquam patiar."
("If he comes, as far as my authority goes, I will not let him leave alive.")

A couple of things. Michael Servetus went to Geneva to confront Calvin, Calvin never confronted Servetus. Let that be noted. Servetus had no reason to go there other than to stir up a debate with Calvin, which led to his death,. I don't agree with burning folks who may differ on doctrine, yet the men on the Counsel of Geneva made the determination to condemned him as a heretic coming into their city to stir up trouble. That's the way the world operated back then, agree of disagree they took heresy as a serious crime against their cities. Calvin labored to convert MS, but failed, so said history, I do not know, I was not there and neither was you. History was written by Victors, and cannot be trusted as we do the word of God.

A Calvinist annihilationist who denies hell, very unusual, although it seems they are increasing.

Secondly, I'm not a Calvinist in the true sense of Calvinism, being of the Reformed teaching as they teach Calvinism. Reformed theology, and hyber/high Calvinism are not one and the same ~they would reject my teaching just a quick you you would, and just as quick as I would them.

Lastly, I reject a "present literal" burning hellfire where the wicked are sufferings per many who teach this heresy. Now, if you disagree with me,, then let's debate this subject, and see who is teaching error, and who may have the truth on this subject.

One question for you to answer: Did Christ paid the debt of sin that you and I owe? If yes, then what was that payment? DEATH! Not suffering as long as God is God! Those men and women who die in their sins will suffer the second death in the lake of fire, where they shall PERISH forever.

Well, one question: Consider:

Matthew 7:22​

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”

Here are some folks standing before the the Great White Throne Judgement Seat of God. pleading their good works, etc. ~ Not a word is mentioned about them ALREADY SUFFFERING for X amount of years, etc., why not, if it is true the wicked are NOW in a literal place of hellfire suffereing, as many preachers preach?

But, let debate this subject if you desire to do so, which I'm pretty sure you will not, I did not come to this truth overnight, but was taught just as many believe until I search the scriptures for myself and found out that men lie and use such tactics as present hellfire to get folks saved as they call it. A literal present hellfire is a Catholic doctrine born in their teaching of purgatory, that generated much $$$$$$$$ for them back when they had more control over the minds of men before the printing press was invented, then all change!

 

[Red Baker]

@Muckah

So John must be soul sleeping in God's waiting room.

Are you mocking the word of God? If so, then you will never come to the knowledge of the truth, never.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment (2 Peter 2:4)

So, have you never learn so much as to how to rightly divide the word of truth? You should learn how to do so keep from being embarrass, by those who practice 2nd Timothy 2:15; Nehemiah 8:8, etc.

2nd Peter 2:4

"For if God spared not the angles that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto the judgement."

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned"~By whom are meant the devil and his angels; who are spirits created by God and as such were good; their first estate which they left was pure and holy, as well as high and honourable; they, were at first in the truth, though they abode not in it; they were once among the morning stars and sons of God, and were angels of light; their numbers are many, and therefore are here expressed in the plural number, "angels", though it cannot be said how large, a number that cannot be counted.

"God spared not"~ Notwithstanding the dignity and excellency of their nature, in strict justice, and awful severity, without any mercy, inflicted due punishment on them; wherefore it cannot be thought that false teachers, who, as they, abide not in the truth, but deny and oppose it, should escape the vengeance of God, for they will not.

"but cast them down to hell"~In what sense are we to understand the word hell as used by Peter? It cannot be understood as the lake of fire, for that is after the judgment~for which they are reserved for...which is to come, as is evident by even the angles themselves:

Matthew 8:29

"And behold they cried out saying, What have we to do with thee Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

They know that there is a day appointed for them to be judge and then cast into the lake of fire, or into the deep, as used by Mark and Luke.

Also, the world is full of evil spirits as is evident by many scriptures in the NT, and in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Hell in this scripture is explain to us by Peter as he said these words:

"and delivered them into chains of darkness"~When they left their first estate, by sinning, God Almighty delivered them into chains of darkness~which means their sins left them under the guilt of sin, which is the power of darkness, and in black despair; shutting them up in unbelief, impenitence, and hardness of mind; being holden with the cords of their sins, and in the most dreadful state of bondage and captivity to their lusts, in just judgment on them; and in the most miserable and uncomfortable condition, being driven from the realms of light, deprived of the face and presence of God, in the utmost horror and trembling, and fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation to consume them; and in utter darkness, without the least glimmering of light, joy, peace, and comfort; and where there is nothing but weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and being also under the restraints of the power and providence of God, and not able to stir or move, or do anything without divine permission; and being likewise, by the everlasting, unalterable, and inscrutable purposes and decrees of God, appointed to everlasting wrath and destruction; by which they are consigned and bound over to it, and held fast, that they cannot escape it! They are there~

"to be reserved unto judgment"~And judge they shall be! By Jesus Christ and his saints. This is the prison of hell in which they are now suffering under, there waiting for that great day of the wrath of Almighty God. This hell, they will never escape from, they are forever under this chains of darkness and deception in which they are now living under. Their final abode will be destruction in the lake of fire and brimstone.

The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side (Luke 16:22-23)

This is clearly a parable, and can be proven to be so by staying with context of Luke 16 and the scriptures overall. If you would like to go here and we both can present our position, then let us do so, if you are not willing to do so, then I will not waste my time proving it to you without you also contributing to this, for there would be not profit in doing so. There's so much false teaching about afterlife form Luke 16 from many different religious sects. I have have heard them all over the years.

 

[Dizerner]

That's the way the world operated back then

Culture does not excuse murder or any sin.

Sorry.

 

[civic]

Culture does not excuse murder or any sin.

Sorry.

Ditto

 

[Red Baker]

@Dizerner @ civic

Culture does not excuse murder or any sin.

Sorry.

I clearly said:

I don't agree with burning folks who may differ on doctrine,

I don't even care to dislike them, yet would not fellowship with them.

 

[Kermos]

Hello @Muckah,

I noticed your posts staunchly supporting the Free-willian Philosophy recently in this thread.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!

 

[Muckah]

Hello @Muckah,

I noticed your posts staunchly supporting the Free-willian Philosophy recently in this thread.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!

Happy Resurrection Day!

Turning Point Radio with Dr. David Jeremiah

Listen to today’s radio broadcast, find a station near you, and request correlating Bible study resources from Dr. Jeremiah.

www.davidjeremiah.org

 

[Muckah]

@Muckah


Are you mocking the word of God? If so, then you will never come to the knowledge of the truth, never.

So, have you never learn so much as to how to rightly divide the word of truth? You should learn how to do so keep from being embarrass, by those who practice 2nd Timothy 2:15; Nehemiah 8:8, etc.

2nd Peter 2:4

"For if God spared not the angles that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto the judgement."

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned"~By whom are meant the devil and his angels; who are spirits created by God and as such were good; their first estate which they left was pure and holy, as well as high and honourable; they, were at first in the truth, though they abode not in it; they were once among the morning stars and sons of God, and were angels of light; their numbers are many, and therefore are here expressed in the plural number, "angels", though it cannot be said how large, a number that cannot be counted.

"God spared not"~ Notwithstanding the dignity and excellency of their nature, in strict justice, and awful severity, without any mercy, inflicted due punishment on them; wherefore it cannot be thought that false teachers, who, as they, abide not in the truth, but deny and oppose it, should escape the vengeance of God, for they will not.

"but cast them down to hell"~In what sense are we to understand the word hell as used by Peter? It cannot be understood as the lake of fire, for that is after the judgment~for which they are reserved for...which is to come, as is evident by even the angles themselves:

Matthew 8:29

"And behold they cried out saying, What have we to do with thee Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

They know that there is a day appointed for them to be judge and then cast into the lake of fire, or into the deep, as used by Mark and Luke.

Also, the world is full of evil spirits as is evident by many scriptures in the NT, and in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Hell in this scripture is explain to us by Peter as he said these words:

"and delivered them into chains of darkness"~When they left their first estate, by sinning, God Almighty delivered them into chains of darkness~which means their sins left them under the guilt of sin, which is the power of darkness, and in black despair; shutting them up in unbelief, impenitence, and hardness of mind; being holden with the cords of their sins, and in the most dreadful state of bondage and captivity to their lusts, in just judgment on them; and in the most miserable and uncomfortable condition, being driven from the realms of light, deprived of the face and presence of God, in the utmost horror and trembling, and fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation to consume them; and in utter darkness, without the least glimmering of light, joy, peace, and comfort; and where there is nothing but weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and being also under the restraints of the power and providence of God, and not able to stir or move, or do anything without divine permission; and being likewise, by the everlasting, unalterable, and inscrutable purposes and decrees of God, appointed to everlasting wrath and destruction; by which they are consigned and bound over to it, and held fast, that they cannot escape it! They are there~

"to be reserved unto judgment"~And judge they shall be! By Jesus Christ and his saints. This is the prison of hell in which they are now suffering under, there waiting for that great day of the wrath of Almighty God. This hell, they will never escape from, they are forever under this chains of darkness and deception in which they are now living under. Their final abode will be destruction in the lake of fire and brimstone.


This is clearly a parable, and can be proven to be so by staying with context of Luke 16 and the scriptures overall. If you would like to go here and we both can present our position, then let us do so, if you are not willing to do so, then I will not waste my time proving it to you without you also contributing to this, for there would be not profit in doing so. There's so much false teaching about afterlife form Luke 16 from many different religious sects. I have have heard them all over the years.

Take a deep breath, slowly. Inhale....exhale.

This is clearly a case of mental anguish also referred to as psychological suffering that someone experiences as a result of, most commonly, a personal injury or other injury caused by another’s actions. Mental anguish, also called and “emotional distress,” can include anxiety, depression, trauma, or grief.

Sorry, I didn't know you were so sensitive.

 

[Red Baker]

@Muckah

Take a deep breath, slowly. Inhale....exhale.

This is clearly a case of mental anguish also referred to as psychological suffering that someone experiences as a result of, most commonly, a personal injury or other injury caused by another’s actions. Mental anguish, also called and “emotional distress,” can include anxiety, depression, trauma, or grief.

Job 13:4​

“But ye are forgers of lies, ye are all physicians of no value.”

Is this all you have for my post to you (see #1367) that was given in response to your post? If yes, then Job 13:4 is written to you and men like you. True spiritual physicians provide scriptures for men seeking to be help spiritually, you provided nothing in response to my post to you. You are truly a physician of not value, shame on you, for thinking that you are. Lovers of truth, beware!

Sorry, I didn't know you were so sensitive.

So, this is your spiritual diagnostic? Pitiful. You definitely missed the mark with me Mr. Physician, that's probably my strongest attribute as a believer in Jesus Christ ~is having an understanding of Satan's devices used against God's children, discouragement and criticism are two of the easy ones to overcome. I think you have missed your calling.

 

[Kermos]

Ane we know you reject Jesus teachings on faith and mans responsibility.

I wholeheartedly believe Holy Spirit inspired Apostolic teaching "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him" (1 John 5:1) which clearly states man's faith in Jesus is dependent upon God birthing man anew (John 3:3).

I joyfully believe the Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) which clearly states man's belief in God is entirely under God's control such that that I believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of God” (John 3-21).

This post is to @Eternally-Grateful as well as @civic because @Eternally-Grateful gave a stamp of agreement to @civic's post.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!

 

[Jim]

I wholeheartedly believe Holy Spirit inspired Apostolic teaching "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him" (1 John 5:1) which clearly states man's faith in Jesus is dependent upon God birthing man anew (John 3:3).

I joyfully believe the Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) which clearly states man's belief in God is entirely under God's control such that that I believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of God” (John 3-21).

This post is to @Eternally-Grateful as well as @civic because @Eternally-Grateful gave a stamp of agreement to @civic's post.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!

There is no such thing as sin if there is no free will - PERIOD. Sin cannot even be defined in the absence of free will.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Nathan



You have to be saved to hear Gods word, otherwise you hear Gods word Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Now to be of God simply means to be saved, to be of the Truth Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

WHY would a person need to hear God's word IF he's aleady saved?

We don't need too much theology to understand that Calvinism makes no sense.

Here's how a person is saved:

Romans 10:3
3 For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
We must subject OURSELVES to the righteousness of God.


Romans 10:9
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
If we believe Jesus was raised from the dead, we will be saved.


Romans 10:10
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
A person believes with the heart....and with his mouth he confesses his belief....resulting in salvation.


Romans 10:13
13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Whoever, anybody, who WILL CALL (future tense) on Jesus will be saved.


Romans 10:15-16
15 How will they preach unless * they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"
A. Someone must bring the good news of salvation. (no good news in Calvinism).
B. We must heed the good news --- not everyone does.


Romans 10:17
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
The heeding of the word of God brings salvation....it is available to all who hears about Jesus.


Romans 10:21
21 But as for Israel He says, "ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."
God offers His hand but some have denied it. The end of irresistible grace.

 

[civic]

I wholeheartedly believe Holy Spirit inspired Apostolic teaching "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him" (1 John 5:1) which clearly states man's faith in Jesus is dependent upon God birthing man anew (John 3:3).

I joyfully believe the Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) which clearly states man's belief in God is entirely under God's control such that that I believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of God” (John 3-21).

This post is to @Eternally-Grateful as well as @civic because @Eternally-Grateful gave a stamp of agreement to @civic's post.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!

of course @Eternally-Grateful and I are one the same page since the bible over and over agains states belief is how we are saved and born again. Faith precedes life.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Kermos]

There is no such thing as sin if there is no free will - PERIOD. Sin cannot even be defined in the absence of free will.

For clarity, the English word sin which is the Greek word hamartía, has the definition as follows:

Sin: not a part, missing the mark.
hamartía (a feminine noun derived from 1 /A "not" and 3313 /méros, "a part, share of") – properly, no-share ("no part of"); loss (forfeiture) because not hitting the target; sin (missing the mark) (def from 266. hamartia HELPS Word-studies section).Sin is "not a part" of God, or said another way, "missing the mark" established by God, like missing the bull's eye of a target, sin is when a person does not do as God commands whether ignorantly or not.
​

No Holy Scripture states free-will exists, but Holy Scripture does state self-will exists:

the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties
(2 Peter 2:9-10)
​

Your declaration "Sin cannot even be defined in the absence of free will" proves that your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

I wholeheartedly believe Holy Spirit inspired Apostolic teaching "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him" (1 John 5:1) which clearly states man's faith in Jesus is dependent upon God birthing man anew (John 3:3).

I joyfully believe the Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) which clearly states man's belief in God is entirely under God's control such that that I believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of God” (John 3-21).

This post is to @Eternally-Grateful as well as @civic because @Eternally-Grateful gave a stamp of agreement to @civic's post.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!

Your heart makes false statements about God.

Here is what the Westminster Confession of Faith states (all Confessions are very similar)

1. From before the beginning of time, God has decided and put into place everything that happens. He makes these decisions freely by His wise and holy will. Nothing He’s put into place can change.

Still, He orders everything in such a way that He’s not the author of sin. And He doesn’t force us to do things against our will. He is the root cause of everything, but this doesn’t mean secondary causes are not involved – in fact, God is the reason other causes exist.

Westminster Confession of Faith
Chapter III
Paragraph 1

Let's examine why Calvinism is not a logical theological system:

1. We're told that from the beginning God has decreed EVERYTHING that will happen.
By His own will, we cannot know His reasons.
These decisions of His cannot be changed.

HOWEVER....
We're also told that He is not the author of sin due to how He plans everything.
He doesn't force us to do anything against our will, and
He is also the author of secondary causes.

SO....does God decree everything OR NOT??
If He decrees EVERYTHING...that includes sinful acts....
INCLUDING secondary causes.

So, there's no way out for God.....
In calvinist theology, God creates evil.

AND
they even use Isaiah 45:7 as a support verse! (it states that God created evil/calamity).

SO...
In calvinist theology God is blasphemed for doing the work of the devil....
attributing to God the works of satan.

Not only does your heart make false statements about God because God IS LOVE and in Him dwells no darkness...
But calvinism also blasphemes God.