civic
Well-known member
My gut tells me he was not but it’s not my call. In reading things about his life it lacked any fruit of the spirit and love described in 1 Cor 13
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
brightfame52
Well-known member
Looks like we will see at the Judgment
brightfame52
Well-known member
Gotcha, I see the error Should be cannot. Also see Jn 8:43
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Calvinism in the Bible
Luke 11
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Matthew 23
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Luke 11
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Matthew 23
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Nathan
Member
Johann
Well-known member
Context-Jews.
Joh 8:39 They answered, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are [truly] Abraham's children, then do the works of Abraham and follow his example.
Joh 8:40 But as it is, you want to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God. This is not the way Abraham acted.
Joh 8:41 You are doing the works of your [own] father." They said to Him, "We are not illegitimate children; we have one [spiritual] Father: God."
Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father [but He is not], you would love and recognize Me, for I came from God [out of His very presence] and have arrived here. For I have not even come on My own initiative [as self-appointed], but He [is the One who] sent Me.
Joh 8:43 Why do you misunderstand what I am saying? It is because [your spiritual ears are deaf and] you are unable to hear [the truth of] My word.
Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and it is your will to practice the desires [which are characteristic] of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks what it natural to him, for he is a liar and the father of lies and half-truths.
Joh 8:45 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me [and continue in your unbelief].
Joh 8:46 Which one of you [has proof and] convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?
Joh 8:47 Whoever is of God and belongs to Him hears [the truth of] God's words; for this reason you do not hear them: because you are not of God and you are not in fellowship with Him."
J.
brightfame52
Well-known member
lol, see ya judgment day
brightfame52
Well-known member
Spiritual inability isnt confined to any specific ethnicity
Horatius
Member
I think judgment day may have a little more going on then you seeing people that you disagree with. It's not about who you would like to judge.
Judgment Day is the day of God’s final, ultimate judgment on sinful mankind. There are a number of passages in Scripture that refer to the final judgment after death at the end of time when everyone will stand before God and He will render final judgment on their lives.
The Bible warns us of Judgment Day. Malachi the prophet wrote, “ ‘Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,’ says the LORD Almighty. ‘Not a root or a branch will be left to them’ ” (Malachi 4:1). John the Baptist spoke of the need to “flee from the coming wrath” (Luke 3:7). Paul wrote to the unrepentant: “Because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God ‘will repay each person according to what they have done’ ” (Romans 2:5–6; cf. Psalm 62:12). Judgment Day is a sure thing.
Bible Questions Answered
Johann
Well-known member
Are you suggesting natural man is metaphysically incapable to respond to the gospel due to total depravity and in a deterministic sense?
J.
brightfame52
Well-known member
okay
You go through great lengths to explain away Christ's sayings “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) to all Christians in all time.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Johann
Well-known member
And in the same chapter---
Jesus Came to Save the World
Joh 12:44 Jesus cried and said, "He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent Me.
Joh 12:45 And He that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me.
Joh 12:46 I Am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness.
Joh 12:47 And if any man hear My sayings, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth [counts as nothing] Me, and receiveth not My sayings, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken from Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak."
J.
@Nathan
He should had written: "Yes, it's the right order, one is not of God, if he cannot hear God's word." Which what he said is the same.
Nathan, I have read all that has been said between you and @brightfame52, and I can assure you that is not what he meant by saying what he did. You are being over sensitive, and making a big deal out of nothing.
Yes, he could have said it a little different than he did, but he has made his point clear as to what he meant by saying these words~you in charity should accept his meaning.
He should had written: "Yes, it's the right order, one is not of God, if he cannot hear God's word." Which what he said is the same.
@Muckah
He did not take pleasure in seeing Michael Servetus burned, and truly had no part in that decision, read you history books which you obviously have not taken the pains to do.
I actually agree with some of Michael Servetus' understanding of the trinity what little we know, since all of his writings were burned with him, which was the case with so many martyrs in the past.
I'm not here to defend a man, yet I will not sit by idling and not speak when someone speaks ill about a servant of God in the past who is not here to defend himself. You are speaking as though you knew him personally which you do not. I have read much behind Calvin over the last fifty years or so, and have found him to be just the opposite of what you are saying.
He did not take pleasure in seeing Michael Servetus burned, and truly had no part in that decision, read you history books which you obviously have not taken the pains to do.
I actually agree with some of Michael Servetus' understanding of the trinity what little we know, since all of his writings were burned with him, which was the case with so many martyrs in the past.
And you know that to be true? It shows how little you do know, since there is no such place as a present burning hellfire! Prove it if you think you can, I'm convinced you cannot! There will be a lake of fire, which is the second death where the wicked shall "forever" PERISH, but that's after the last day when all the wicked shall be resurrected to face the judgement of God and THEN be sentenced to perish forever.
Dizerner
Well-known member
Do you deny Calvin wrote:
"Si venerit, modo valeat mea autoritas, vivum exire nunquam patiar."
("If he comes, as far as my authority goes, I will not let him leave alive.")
A Calvinist annihilationist who denies hell, very unusual, although it seems they are increasing.
Dizerner
Well-known member
More going on, sure.
It does NOT exclude justifying those who witness to the truth.
Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie-- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. (Rev. 3:9 NKJ)
Red didn't deny hell. He just gave you his opinion, different from your opinion, of what hell is or will be.
