An Article on free will

[GodsGrace]

@dwight92070

Isaiah 45:7​

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

​

WHERE DID SIN COME FROM? IN WHAT SENSE SHOULD WE UNDERSTAND ISAIAH 45:7? ​

Is Isaiah 45:7 the ONLY verse in the bible about God?

Here's how you could understand Isaiah 45:7 without having to become a Calvinist and without having
to blame God for evil in the world...which would make Him an evil God.
Isaiah 45:7 states that God causes calamity.
How does God cause calamity?
By REMOVING HIMSELF from any situation.
IF God is in a situation it usually functions better.
If God is NOT in a situation, it usually functions very badly.
Just as an example....
take marriage. Or any other situation you care to use.
The girl at the cash register in a supermarket.
Things go better when she's happy and cheerful and pleasing to God.
Things go rather badly when she's upset, or angry, or any of the other traits sent by satan.

God is the First Cause of all things, but He is not the direct and immediate cause of all things. If I hold a book in the air, I am the direct and immediate cause of it not falling. But if I let go of the book, I am not the direct and immediate cause of it falling. He was the direct and immediate cause of light but only the indirect cause of sin.

RB...this is why Calvinism cannot be properly respected by those on the other side of the isle.

First you state that God is the cause of all things.
Then you state that He is NOT the cause of direct and immediate things.

I hope you realize that the Confessions state this...
NOT THE BIBLE.
1. If God is the cause of ALL THINGS...then He is also the originator of secondary causes, which is what you're referring to.
This will make Him the originator of evil.

2. God is all-good. God cannot create evil because there is no evil in Him.
If there is evil in God,,,OUR CREATOR...I would suggest that we are in dire trouble to have such a god creating us and looking at our lives.
I would live in terror.

Fortunately for us, God is a loving God:

1 John 4:8
8Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life
Ephesians 2:4-5
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved
Psalm 109:26
26Help me, LORD my God; save me according to your unfailing love.
Romans 5:8
8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Psalm 145:8-9
"The LORD is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love"

God has created and planned all things large and small by eternal counsel for His own glory. He created man with the ability to choose to keep His rules or to break His rules. He placed man in a perfect world with one commandment, but He also created Satan. He could easily have fenced the tree, restrained Adam, or kept Satan out of the garden. He allowed sin in the world to manifest His infinite glory in salvation and damnation, along with many other facts/truths. God restrains sin if He chooses, or He allows sin and governs it, and "secures victory" over sin for his people. (Psalm 76:10; Genesis 20:6; Exodus 34:24; Romans 7:25; 1st Corinthians 15:57). Selah.

You say God created satan.
Where in the OT does it state this??

 

[Selah]

The above is very true Selah...
but I think the conversation here is regarding the sin of Adam.
Are we actually GUILTY of Adam's sin
or
Do we just suffer from the consequence of his disobedience to God?

(which would be our having the sin nature and tending toward sin, at least till salvation).

Yes, Romans 5 tells us that we are guilty of Adam’s sin. Sin entered the world through Adam. Every man and woman in the world has sinned and fallen short of God's glory. But… because all sin entered the world through Adam, it was God's grace and plan that the Redeemer would come through Adam's descendants, defeat Satan, and restore us to God.

Romans 5:12-21 (NKJV) 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift [is] not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift [is] not like [that which came] through the one who sinned. For the judgment [which came] from one [offense resulted] in condemnation, but the free gift [which came] from many offenses [resulted] in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense [judgment came] to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act [the free gift came] to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Red Baker]

@Jim

That is not true. They were selected before the foundation of the world, but they were not in Christ until such time that they were justified and regenerated.

Jim, I will not waste much time on this since we have went back and forth concerning these verys truths, but will say a few things for the benefit of others who have not heard us discussing these important truths.

Ephesians 1:4​

“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”

The “in Christ” relationship on which all spiritual blessings depend is our election in Him, as can be clearly seen by the connection of this verse to the preceding verse. All spiritual blessings of the previous verse are in Christ. How do sinners get into Christ? The Roman Catholic Church would say we must be baptized into it in order to be in Him. Jim, you and Alexander Campbell’s so-called Church of Christ would say the same thing (Gal 3:27).

But the true gospel of Jesus Christ declares right here that it is totally based on election in Christ. Salvation is by God’s purpose and grace given in Christ before the world (2nd Timothy 1:9). God chose Paul and the Ephesian saints and us in Jesus Christ – this is election defined.

The “in Christ” relationship must be divided and defined by the sense in which save/saved/salvation is used in the scriptures. God’s eternal choice was to place and view the elect in Jesus Christ legally and covenantly. The choice was made before the foundation of the world – before the act of creation. Here are cross-references for this ancient decree in the mind of God (Matt 25:34; Acts 15:18; Eph 3:11; II Tim 1:9; Titus 1:2; I Pet 1:20; Rev 13:8; 17:8).

In this eternal sense, they were already viewed as adopted, justified, reconciled, etc., etc. This is the proper basis for blessing God – He chose us to all spiritual blessings long ago. Samuel Richardson, John Gill, John Brine, and others taught eternal justification based on this eternal choice.

In a practical sense, each one of us are visibly in Christ before or after each other during our life on earth.

Romans 16:7​

“Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.”

This is not that hard to see and understand.

Adam was the first human being. Jesus was the firstfruits of thos who have fallen asleep (1 Cor 15:20; Rev 14:4)).

Jim, this is pitiful, you must do better than this to have any credibility with those you are here to convince them of a truth you believe you have that they do not yet see. Is this the best you have to offer? Briefly, please consider:

Romans 5:14​

“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”

Your first mistake was to leave the context in which this is said, which should be a warning to others that you do not have confidence in what you are saying.

The context will drive our understanding of what is being said, which I know you know this to be so, so why are you leaving the context and going elsewhere? I know why, because the context in which we find the words: "who is the figure of him" ~ will tell us exactly what it means.
Who is the figure of him that was to come.

Since Adam’s sin is imputed to men, therefore Adam is the figure of Jesus Christ (Romans 4:6-8; 5:12). In this sense:

The substitutionary life and death of Jesus are imputed to God’s elect (2nd Corinthians 5:21; Ist Peter 2:24).

Adam is a figure of Jesus Christ according to the testimony of Scripture (Ist Corinthians 15:21-22,45-49).

Jim, the comparison, which is fully developed in Romans 5 teaches unconditional eternal life by Jesus alone, by his obedience, righteousness, etc.

Adam is still a figure today: Paul is still using him as a figure, and men are still sinners by him. The analogy between Adam and Christ is the role they fill in representing two groups of men.

 

[Red Baker]

@GodsGrace

Is Isaiah 45:7 the ONLY verse in the bible about God?

Fran, I'll be very happy to address your post after I return either later today or tomorrow, no problem.

Is Isaiah 45:7 the ONLY verse in the bible about God?

Well now, how many verses would you like to have? You can read Exodus for a starter and see all that God did in the land of Egypt before Israel left and then what he did to Pharaoh and his host that followed Israel into the Red sea.

Amos 3:6; Nahum 1:8, and a host of others.

Btw, Fran, you never truly even gave a biblical sense on what Isaiah 45:7 even means. In what sense does God create evil, without being the Author of evil, which we know that he is not.

 

[Johann]

Hi J
Romans 5:12 is not a problem because it is not the ONLY verse in the NT regarding this.
Just to use your verse:
Because of this, just as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death spread to all people because all sinned.

Death spread to all people because all sinned.
Let's just leave it at that.
Adam failed and we are thus all affected by his sin.
His sin caused him to lose his immortality.
Due to the sin nature which has since infected all of humanity....
all have sinned and will sin.
Thus, all will die.

Now, that's not really how it is.
All die because Adam lost the gift of immortality and he lost it for all of us.
This was due to the fall...his failure to obey God and choosing to obey satan instead.

But we all indeed do sin, so even in this more simple understanding,,,,
we still all die due to our sinning due to the sin nature.

This is from Biblehub Commenetaries...as you know I dislike quoting commentaries or scholars,
but this does explain very well what I believe:

The sequence is, first sin, then death. Now, the death which passed over mankind had its origin in Adam’s sin. Strictly speaking, there could be no individual sin till there was a law to be broken.

But in the interval between Adam and Moses, i.e., before the institution of law, death prevailed, over the world. which was a proof that there was sin somewhere.

The solution is, that the sin in question was not the individual guilt of individual transgressors, but the single transgression of Adam.
and
As by one man.—This clause, “As by one man sin and death entered,” ought to have been answered by “So by one Man grace and life entered.”

But a difficulty occurs at the very outset. How can it really be said that sin and death entered by Adam? For sin does not exist without law, and the law did not come in till Moses.

And yet we have proof that sin must have been there; for death, its consequence, prevailed all through this period in which law was still wanting. The fact was, the sin which then prevailed, and had such wide and disastrous effects, was Adam’s.
source: Ellicottì's Commentary

Romans 5:12 Commentaries: Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

That's one school of thought.

J.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, Romans 5 tells us that we are guilty of Adam’s sin. Sin entered the world through Adam. Every man and woman in the world has sinned and fallen short of God's glory. But… because all sin entered the world through Adam, it was God's grace and plan that the Redeemer would come through Adam's descendants, defeat Satan, and restore us to God.

Romans 5:12-21 (NKJV) 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift [is] not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift [is] not like [that which came] through the one who sinned. For the judgment [which came] from one [offense resulted] in condemnation, but the free gift [which came] from many offenses [resulted] in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense [judgment came] to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act [the free gift came] to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hi Selah,
The bible teaches that one man cannot be responsible for another man's sin.
This is taught in both the OT and the NT.

If you believe that we are actually GUILTY of Adam's sin it means that if a baby is born and then not baptized he would go to hell.
Is this what you believe?

My feeling is that we can conflate being GUILTY of Adam's sin,,,which we are not...
and being AFFECTED by Adam's sin, which does lead all men to sin, as you've correctly posted in your above verses.

We have been affected by Adam's sin.
We are born with a nature that will tend toward sin until we are born again.
We cannot be guilty of Adam's sin because each one of us did not commit it....
only Adam committed the sin that caused the fall of mankind.

If you need scripture, I'll be happy to provide it...I'm just not sure you really need it.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's one school of thought.

J.

Is there another school of thought?
3 denominations teach this.
I find this in scripture...from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

Fran, I'll be very happy to address your post after I return either later today or tomorrow, no problem.

Well now, how many verses would you like to have? You can read Exodus for a starter and see all that God did in the land of Egypt before Israel left and then what he did to Pharaoh and his host that followed Israel into the Red sea.

Amos 3:6; Nahum 1:8, and a host of others.

Btw, Fran, you never truly even gave a biblical sense on what Isaiah 45:7 even means. In what sense does God create evil, without being the Author of evil, which we know that he is not.

This is what YOU stated: see post 8101

God is the First Cause of all things, but He is not the direct and immediate cause of all things. If I hold a book in the air, I am the direct and immediate cause of it not falling. But if I let go of the book, I am not the direct and immediate cause of it falling. He was the direct and immediate cause of light but only the indirect cause of sin.

If God causes sin...He is an evil God.
If God causes EVERYTHING to happen and is the FIRST CAUSE of everything...
then it is God that causes Evil since He would also be the initiator of second causes.

IF you don't understand this RB...
and many Calvinists do not....
It can be a clear sign of why you accept Calvinism...

BECAUSE YOU DON'T TRULY UNDERSTAND IT.

Stop reading the Confessions and start reading the bible.
The confessions cause conflict and make no logical sense...
as is shown above.

 

[Jim]

You are the one wrestling, wrestle with the Scriptures.

No one is born sinless into this world friend.

J.

So where did your spirit come from? My spirit came from God. He did not give me a spirit already dead in trespasses and sins.

 

[Jim]

So only your few?

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands

And even a greater multitude didn't make it.

 

[Johann]

Is there another school of thought?
3 denominations teach this.
I find this in scripture...from Genesis to Revelation.

Absolutely-just read my posts-we are either IN Adam or IN Christ.

Even commentaries are at odds with each other on THIS verse-"All sinned" three Aorists in THIS verse.

A snippet of Utley's commentary.

"as through one man sin entered into the world" All three verbs in Rom_5:12 are aorist tense. Adam's fall brought death (cf. 1Co_15:22). The Bible does not dwell on the origin of sin. Sin also occurred in the angelic realm (cf. Genesis 3 and Rev_12:7-9). How and when are uncertain (cf. Isa_14:12-27; Eze_28:12-19; Job_4:18; Mat_25:41; Luk_10:18; Joh_12:31; Rev_12:7-9).
Adam's sin involved two aspects (1) disobedience to a specific commandment (cf. Gen_2:16-17), and (2) self-oriented pride (cf. Gen_3:5-6). This continues the allusion to Genesis 3 begun in Rom_1:18-32.

It is the theology of sin that so clearly separates Paul from rabbinical thought. The rabbis did not focus on Genesis 3; they asserted instead, that there were two "intents" (yetzers) in every person. Their famous rabbinical saying "In every man's heart is a black and a white dog. The one you feed the most becomes the biggest." Paul saw sin as a major barrier between holy God and His creation. Paul was not a systematic theologian (cf. James Steward's A Man in Christ). He gave several origins of sin (1) Adam's fall, (2) satanic temptation, and (3) continuing human rebellion (i.e., Eph_2:2-3).
In the theological contrasts and parallels between Adam and Jesus two possible implications are present.
1. Adam was a real historical person.
2. Jesus was a real human being.
Both of these truths affirm the Bible in the face of false teaching. Notice the repeated use of "one man" or "the one." These two ways of referring to Adam and Jesus are used eleven times in this context.

-now read on, if you are interested sorella.

Johann.

 

[Jim]

Our spirit was dead.
Your turn...

When did your spirit die? What caused your spirit's death?

 

[Jim]

No.
What I'm saying is that the sin of Adam INITIATED the biology you speak of.
What was it about Adam's sin that caused such a grave response?

There was no biological change in anything when Adam sinned. Adam became spiritually dead in his disobedience. And to keep him from living forever with a spirit dead in sin, God ejected him from the Garden.

Adam's sin affected EVERYTHING:
Man's relationship to God

Adam's sin affected his relationship with God.

His relationship to man
His relationship to nature
and his relationship to himself.

Have not all of the above suffered from the sin nature?

Where did Adam get his sin nature?

Is our relationship to God the same as it was between Him and Adam prior to the fall?
No. It has been damaged.

Is our relationship with other persons the same?
No. Even Adam's relationship with Eve became difficult due to the curses of God on both of them.

Adam was the keeper of the Garden. He named the plants and animals.
Has our relationship with nature changed since the fall?
Yes. We experience droughts, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc.

And our relationship with our very selves.
We worry, we get sick, we lack peace, some are mentally disabled, etc.

The fall of Adam affected everything.

Nah!!

 

[Jim]

Sorry Jim,,,just saw this.
YES. Adam changed the biology of human beings with his first sin which broke our perfect relationship with God.

Do you believe Adam was formed perfectly?
Or with defects?
God stated that everything He created was good.
After creating man, God stated that everything He created was very good.
Genesis 1:31
31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

If God HIMSELF, stated that everything was very good....
He either didn't mean it
or VERY GOOD means NOT very good at all.

Why did Adam disobey God?

 

[Jim]

@Jim

Jim, I will not waste much time on this since we have went back and forth concerning these verys truths, but will say a few things for the benefit of others who have not heard us discussing these important truths.

Ephesians 1:4​

“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”

The “in Christ” relationship on which all spiritual blessings depend is our election in Him, as can be clearly seen by the connection of this verse to the preceding verse. All spiritual blessings of the previous verse are in Christ. How do sinners get into Christ? The Roman Catholic Church would say we must be baptized into it in order to be in Him. Jim, you and Alexander Campbell’s so-called Church of Christ would say the same thing (Gal 3:27).

But the true gospel of Jesus Christ declares right here that it is totally based on election in Christ. Salvation is by God’s purpose and grace given in Christ before the world (2nd Timothy 1:9). God chose Paul and the Ephesian saints and us in Jesus Christ – this is election defined.

The “in Christ” relationship must be divided and defined by the sense in which save/saved/salvation is used in the scriptures. God’s eternal choice was to place and view the elect in Jesus Christ legally and covenantly. The choice was made before the foundation of the world – before the act of creation. Here are cross-references for this ancient decree in the mind of God (Matt 25:34; Acts 15:18; Eph 3:11; II Tim 1:9; Titus 1:2; I Pet 1:20; Rev 13:8; 17:8).

In this eternal sense, they were already viewed as adopted, justified, reconciled, etc., etc. This is the proper basis for blessing God – He chose us to all spiritual blessings long ago. Samuel Richardson, John Gill, John Brine, and others taught eternal justification based on this eternal choice.

In a practical sense, each one of us are visibly in Christ before or after each other during our life on earth.

Romans 16:7​

“Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.”

This is not that hard to see and understand.

Jim, this is pitiful, you must do better than this to have any credibility with those you are here to convince them of a truth you believe you have that they do not yet see. Is this the best you have to offer? Briefly, please consider:

Romans 5:14​

“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”

Your first mistake was to leave the context in which this is said, which should be a warning to others that you do not have confidence in what you are saying.

The context will drive our understanding of what is being said, which I know you know this to be so, so why are you leaving the context and going elsewhere? I know why, because the context in which we find the words: "who is the figure of him" ~ will tell us exactly what it means.
Who is the figure of him that was to come.

Since Adam’s sin is imputed to men, therefore Adam is the figure of Jesus Christ (Romans 4:6-8; 5:12). In this sense:

The substitutionary life and death of Jesus are imputed to God’s elect (2nd Corinthians 5:21; Ist Peter 2:24).

Adam is a figure of Jesus Christ according to the testimony of Scripture (Ist Corinthians 15:21-22,45-49).

Jim, the comparison, which is fully developed in Romans 5 teaches unconditional eternal life by Jesus alone, by his obedience, righteousness, etc.

Adam is still a figure today: Paul is still using him as a figure, and men are still sinners by him. The analogy between Adam and Christ is the role they fill in representing two groups of men.

Taken from an Appendix of James Coffman's commentary on Romans.

In Christ Jesus​

The redemption that is in Christ ...
The expression "in Christ" is, in some ways, the most important in all the Pauline writings, where this expression, or its equivalent, "in whom," "in him," etc., is used no less than 169 times.

What does it mean to be "in Christ"? It means to be in his spiritual body, called the church, the body of which Christ is the head, of which he is declared to be the Savior, and which means having a spiritual relationship to Christ, a relationship of intimate union and identification with him. Redemption is not in faith, or baptism, or in anything else except being "in Christ." Right here is that device contrived by God himself by which a man might truly and legitimately be justified; and it might be looked upon as a divine entity.

This writer is indebted to John Mackay, former President of Princeton Theological Seminary, for this concept of a divine corporation. He wrote:

Which God designated to give historical fulfillment to the "plan of the mystery." That organ is a community, the community of the "chosen in Christ," of "the destined in love." In the Epistle of the Ephesians, which is supremely interested in the corporate side of Christianity, "The People of God" occupy a central place. In the Old Testament they formed the "Commonwealth of Israel" in the New Testament the Christian Church, "the Body of Christ."

Being In Christ Jesus

Inherent in the very fact of Christ's having a spiritual body is the concept of its being extra-literal. What kind of body is it? That it is a community of believers on earth is implicit in the fact that the Corinthians had "by one Spirit" all been baptized "into it" (1 Corinthians 12:13). That, in the last analysis, it includes more than the church is plainly set forth in Ephesians where "every family" in heaven and upon earth are a part of it. All the saved of all ages are in it, because only in Christ has salvation ever been possible for anyone. The wonder of this body is that it is truly spoken of as a person, like any other organization, being, in fact, a fully legal person; hence the propriety of saying that one is "in Christ."

Christ's absolute righteousness cannot be separated from himself and conferred or imputed to others, true righteousness being non-transferable; but it is possible, thanks to the wise provision of God in forming the body of those "in Christ," for all who will to enter that body, becoming one with Christ, fully identifiable with him, and being in fact "in him." All such then share Christ's righteousness. It is truly theirs. This is what Paul means by "redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

The result of being in Christ is the righteousness of Christ. In Christ is a bank of all the righteousness ever accredited to people. All spiritual blessings are categorically said to be in this body, "in Christ" (Ephesians 1:3). This means that there are no spiritual blessings anywhere except in Christ.

Who are those who make up Christ's spiritual body, thus being "in Christ"? The New Testament gives the following clues to their identity:

They are those who have been born again. Christ's spiritual body, also called by Christ "the kingdom," cannot be entered except by the new birth (John 3:3-5). They are those who are the "new" creatures. "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature" (2 Corinthians 5:17). And, like every other official body, being in Jesus Christ has a seal. Paul wrote to the Ephesians:

In whom (that is, in Christ), having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise (Ephesians 1:13).

Thus, the members of the body of Jesus Christ are those who have been sealed with the Holy Spirit. They are also the saved, for the author of Acts declared that

The Lord added to them day by day those that were being saved (Acts 2:47).

The true members of body of Jesus Christ are the saved, the sealed with the Holy Spirit, the new born, the new creatures. In a word, they are baptized believers in Christ. The reception of the Holy Spirit of promise, in the first sermon of the gospel age, was made contingent upon the repentance and baptism of those who believed (Acts 2:38), and Paul's mentioning "of promise" in Eph. 1:13, above, shows that he had that in mind. Baptism is an essential element in the new birth, though not the whole of it; and the "newness of life" which belongs to every person "in Christ" follows his being baptized into Christ (Romans 6:4). There can be no marvel, therefore, at the fact of baptism's being mentioned three times in the New Testament as an act of obedience that results in the believer's having a new status, that of being "in Christ." "Baptized into Christ" is found in Rom. 6:3 and Gal. 3:27; and, in 1 Corinthians, it is written: "For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body" (12:13).

From these Holy Scriptures, there comes the certain conclusion, then, that faith is not the sum and all of salvation; it was not even so in the case of Christ whose faith and perfect obedience wrought salvation for all; nor can it be supposed that "faith alone," defined by James as "dead" (James 2:17f), can ever avail anything except the eternal disappointment of them that trust in it.

In that all have sinned, a fact Paul was at great labor to prove, there resides the absolute necessity for every man to die as the penalty of sin, that penalty to be understood not merely as mortal but as eternal death; and God's justice will require that every man ever born on earth pay it, unless exempted through being in Christ. Thus, in the final judgment, only those who are truly "in Christ," members of that entity called the spiritual body, can truly be exempted, and that not upon the basis of their faith alone, but upon the basis that Christ actually died for them, and that they died "in the person of Christ." That is the thrust of Paul's thought that Christians have been "baptized into his death" (Romans 6:3).

The body of Jesus Christ is established through purchase by the blood of Christ (Acts 20:28), the device God had planned before all time, and the mystery hidden before times eternal, and now made "known through the church" (Ephesians 3:10), and called the "mystery of the gospel" (Ephesians 6:19).

These thoughts are offered in the prayerful hope that people may forsake human theories of salvation, that they might believe and be baptized, as Christ commanded, and give glory to God "in the church" as directed by an apostle (Ephesians 3:21).

Like every figure of speech used to convey eternal truth, this one also results in certain distortions, as, for example, above where Christ is spoken of as being alone entitled to salvation. Of course, he was never lost; but the inheritance of the saints is scripturally noted as that which they shall receive as joint-heirs with Christ. Thus, subject to the limitation of all metaphor, this one is conceived of as a vehicle for vital truth, taught abstractly, throughout the New Testament; and, it is hoped, made a little plainer in this comparison.

Thus, only the righteous, the perfect, the truly faithful and obedient shall be saved; and there will be no basis for any man to boast of having anything such as that, because such is not in man; but it is in Christ, and those in Christ may through absolute identification with Christ truly say that they are perfect, etc. That is what Paul meant when he wrote: "That we may present every man perfect in Christ" (Colossians 1:28).

Thus, it will not be an imparted righteousness, but rather an imputed righteousness procured, by grace through faith, by a real, actual righteousness wrought by Christ, that can save such a one as sinful man, and then only if he will die to himself and become utterly one with Christ in Christ. As Paul said of himself:

It is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me; and that life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me (Galatians 2:20).

Before leaving Rom. 3:24, the seeming paradox of how God's grace is free and at the same time all people do not receive it, should be observed. Paul wrote Titus:

For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly and righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11,12).

From this, it is plain that God's grace having appeared, and salvation having been brought to all people, refer to the availability of that grace and salvation, and not to their being unconditionally bestowed. From the farmer who reaps down his fields to the fishermen off the Grand Banks, all men receive God's gifts conditionally, and never unconditionally. Thus, it is no surprise that God's grace and salvation came "instructing men," with the necessary deduction that rejection of the instructions was automatically rejection of the grace and salvation. Failure to comply with divinely imposed conditions is forfeiture of all benefits conditionally given.

 

[Jim]

@dwight92070

Isaiah 45:7​

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

​

WHERE DID SIN COME FROM? IN WHAT SENSE SHOULD WE UNDERSTAND ISAIAH 45:7? ​

God is the First Cause of all things, but He is not the direct and immediate cause of all things. If I hold a book in the air, I am the direct and immediate cause of it not falling. But if I let go of the book, I am not the direct and immediate cause of it falling. He was the direct and immediate cause of light but only the indirect cause of sin.

God has created and planned all things large and small by eternal counsel for His own glory. He created man with the ability to choose to keep His rules or to break His rules. He placed man in a perfect world with one commandment, but He also created Satan. He could easily have fenced the tree, restrained Adam, or kept Satan out of the garden. He allowed sin in the world to manifest His infinite glory in salvation and damnation, along with many other facts/truths. God restrains sin if He chooses, or He allows sin and governs it, and "secures victory" over sin for his people. (Psalm 76:10; Genesis 20:6; Exodus 34:24; Romans 7:25; 1st Corinthians 15:57). Selah.

From a better translation:

Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

 

[Johann]

So where did your spirit come from? My spirit came from God. He did not give me a spirit already dead in trespasses and sins.

Depends on how you read the Scriptures Jim.

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

And even a greater multitude didn't make it.

No verse as evidence of your claim? Typical....

"Few" is a reference to only a "small number". Don't get confused with your own silliness.

The writer is referencing Numbers 22:26 from the Greek OT.

Num 22:26 And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.

You should recognize who Jesus is talking to. There were few in his day that accepted Him. He is the "angel of the Lord" referenced and there is only one way. The "Cornerstone" the builders rejected.

So tighten you theology and stop this nonsense.

Those to whom Jesus spoke were stopping people from getting saved.

 

[Jim]

Depends on how you read the Scriptures Jim.

J.

That is certainly true. But you didn't answer my question. Where did your spirit come from? How do you read the Scriptures about where your spirit came from?

 

[Jim]

So tighten you theology and stop this nonsense.

Yes, I definitely think you should do that!!