An Article on free will

[Johann]

I appreciate you said you use ChatGPT. That’s what I said yesterday as I suspected that was the case. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

I will be watching the Masters and will return later tonight.

I do believe you suffer from poor reading comprehension.

J.

 

[civic]

I do believe you suffer from poor reading comprehension.

J.

See new thread below on the topic. Thanks for inspiring me to address its many problems in Christianity

Thread 'Warnings by Reformers using ChatGPT'

Sunday at 11:12 AM

In reflecting on the use of ChatGPT, the Free Reformed ministers asked themselves: “Does this mean that ChatGPT could write a sermon? What if a minister was to give the right parameters to ChatGPT and it spits out an objectively more biblical, reformed, redemptive-historical and Christ-centred sermon than the one the minister worked all week on… how to think through that….?”

The Free Reformed ministers conclude that the answer is No, and they give the reason why: “The nature of preaching in addressing and the illuminating work of the Spirit in understanding the Word of God, can’t be...

• civic

 

[civic]

I do believe you suffer from poor reading comprehension.

J.

Also this is what’s called a personal insult a personal attack on one’s character. @Administrator

 

[Administrator]

Well lets just knock it off and move on. What's the big deal? Can't we all just get along?

 

[ProDeo]

Need more popcorn, be right back.

 

[Jim]

JIm, now you know what it means, you just do not want to accept the truth of it. Itis not that deep, and you are a very intelligent person, I know by experience going back and forth with you, for many years

Jim, the most important truth that comes from this is that all of the elect were IN CHRIST, before the foundation of the world, before they had done any good, or evil; and Adam was a figure of Christ ~ (Romans 5:14) each representing those that were IN THEM. So, to be brief, please answer this one question:

That is not true. They were selected before the foundation of the world, but they were not in Christ until such time that they were justified and regenerated.

In what sense was Adam a figure of Christ, please explain using scriptures?

Adam was the first human being. Jesus was the firstfruits of thos who have fallen asleep (1 Cor 15:20; Rev 14:4)).

 

[TomL]

Holy Spirit inspired Apostle Paul clearly conveys the work of grace, saved, and faith for us Christians is controlled by the work of God with:

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

The Apostle Paul wrote faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8) not at the exclusion of salvation because Paul wrote you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8).

No sorry he did not write

faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God
He did write

"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"

Why do you truncate scripture to suit your theology

Faith and the pronoun "that' do not agree in gender, so faith is not a proper antecedent of the relative pronoun that

You now developed your convoluted by grace you are saved by your work through your free-will faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work (TomL 2:8-10).

A simple by grace are you saved through faith will do quite nicely

Faith is a response of man

God does not believe for you; it is something you must do

Faith comes by hearing the word of God (Rom. 10:11-14), which is sent (or granted) first to the Jew and then the Gentile (Rom. 1:16). In other words, God is enabling faith by bringing the word of faith (His revelation), which is said to go first to Israel and then to “the high-ways and by-ways…the good and bad alike” (see the wedding banquet parable in Matt. 22). Remember, during the time of Paul, the Jews, generally speaking, had grown calloused to God’s revelation, otherwise they might have seen, heard, understood and turned to God, so the apostles took the message of repentance to the Gentiles, who unlike the Jews, “were willing to listen” (see Acts 28:27-28; John 12:39-41; Romans 9-11).



In the New Testament, faith is attributed to individuals rather than God thirty-nine times (Matt 9:2, 22, 29; 15:28; Mark 2:5; 5:34; 10:52; Luke 5:20; 7:50; 8:48; 17:19; 18:42; 22:32; Rom 1:8; 1 Cor 2:5; 15:14, 17; 2 Cor 1:24; 10:15; Eph 1:15; Phil 2:17; Col 1:4; 1 Thess 1:8; 3:2, 5, 6, 7, 10; 2 Thess 1:3; Phlm 6; Heb 10:23; 12:2; Jas 1:3; 2:18; 1 Pet 1:7, 9, 21; 2 Pet 1:5; 1 John 5:4).



Anyone Can Be Saved: A Defense of “Traditional” Southern Baptist Soteriology . Wipf & Stock, an

According to you, Holy Spirit inspired Paul is silly for writing faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8).

Um the Holy Spirit did not inspire Paul to write

faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8).


he did inspire him to write

"by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"

where salvation (through faith) is the gift as scripture shows

Romans 6:23 (NIV) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[ProDeo]

I believe I already posted the following, put 2 toddlers (age 2-3) in a room full of beautiful toys, close the door and watch what happens through the window. Both toddlers enjoy the toys very much but after a while one of them wants to have the toy of the other toddler. Of course the toddler with the toy wants to keep his toy and after some push and pull the inevitable happens, violence.

Who or what told the toddler?

The question is more important than the answer.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

“The gift is not grace; the gift is eternal life.”

Your statement is imprecise when judged by Pauline theology, because grace (χάρις) and gift (δωρεά) are not mutually exclusive, nor is grace merely the means of delivering the gift. Rather, in Paul's language, grace is the basis or source of the gift, but the gift may be multifaceted, and sometimes grace itself is called a gift.

a. Romans 6:23
“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift (τὸ δὲ χάρισμα) of God is eternal life (ζωὴ αἰώνιος) in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Here, χάρισμα (charisma) is a noun derived from χάρις, meaning a gracious gift—a gift rooted in unmerited favor.

In this verse, eternal life is the gift, yes—but it is a χάρισμα, a thing that exists because of grace, and its nature as a gift cannot be separated from grace.

b. Romans 5:15–17
“...much more have the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.”
“...those who receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness...”

Paul distinguishes between grace (χάρις) and gifts that flow from grace (δωρεά, χάρισμα): e.g., righteousness, justification, and ultimately eternal life.

Therefore, grace is not itself the gift in the narrowest sense, but it is the operative power through which gifts like righteousness and eternal life are given.

So-

Your statement "The gift is not grace" is accurate only in the sense that grace is not the final object of the believer's inheritance; however, in Pauline theology, grace and gift are inseparably connected (cf. Eph 2:8–9: “by grace… through faith… it is the gift of God”).

J.

Hey bro

I like the Theology of Christ. Paul stash along side.

Grace is given to all people. There mere fact we are alive and able to chose to recieve or reject christ is by the grace of God.

The gift is eternal life. In Christ. While if is based on Grace, it was bought wiht a price. The cross.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

The Holy Spirit reveals to me that the love of Christ controls us Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14), so my faith is the work of God because the Word of God tells me “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

According to your Free-willian Philosophy, you are free to deny the above blessings by saying they are not directed to you.

Importantly, the Lord says "by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned" (Matthew 12:37).

Lord and God Jesus Christ declares His Sovereignty as shown in His sayings above, and He amplifies the treasure of the Word of God with "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

So christ saved you against your will.

Whatever

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

A critical patt of Free-willian Philosophy is "free-will is separated from God in such a way that you can choose God in your own initiative"; otherwise, it's not free-will. That is the conclusion of free-will.

Not true

The Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19).

He chose based on his will

That whoever sees and believes will not perish but has eternal life. And will be raised Ont he last day. Oh, And he will lose non of them

John 6

 

[Johann]

God does not impute the sin of one to another.

AND SO DEATH PASSED UPON ALL MEN BECAUSE ALL HAVE SINNED. it does not say that death passed upon all men because Adam sinned!!!!

You are the one wrestling, wrestle with the Scriptures.

No one is born sinless into this world friend.

J.

 

[Administrator]

Need more popcorn, be right back.

Thats called instigating. You could lose your popcorn privileges

 

[praise_yeshua]

Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Mat 7:14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

So only your few?

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands

 

[dwight92070]

If nothing happens except the will of God, then there's no other conclusion but that God is indeed the author of sin. Calvinists can deny that, but there's no detour around it. If Calvinism is correct, then God creates sin.

Anyone who knows and understands the Bible - and therefore knows and understands God - knows that He CANNOT be the author and creator of sin. Therefore Calvinism CANNOT be correct.

 

[GodsGrace]

Many scholars still debate ONE verse because of ONE word IN that verse-

Rom 5:12 Death Came through Adam but Life Comes through Christ
Because of this, just as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death spread to all people because all sinned.

Not to put you to the test-dokimazo-did these sin IN Adam or OUT of Adam?

God bless sorella.

J.

Hi J
Romans 5:12 is not a problem because it is not the ONLY verse in the NT regarding this.
Just to use your verse:
Because of this, just as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death spread to all people because all sinned.

Death spread to all people because all sinned.
Let's just leave it at that.
Adam failed and we are thus all affected by his sin.
His sin caused him to lose his immortality.
Due to the sin nature which has since infected all of humanity....
all have sinned and will sin.
Thus, all will die.

Now, that's not really how it is.
All die because Adam lost the gift of immortality and he lost it for all of us.
This was due to the fall...his failure to obey God and choosing to obey satan instead.

But we all indeed do sin, so even in this more simple understanding,,,,
we still all die due to our sinning due to the sin nature.

This is from Biblehub Commenetaries...as you know I dislike quoting commentaries or scholars,
but this does explain very well what I believe:

The sequence is, first sin, then death. Now, the death which passed over mankind had its origin in Adam’s sin. Strictly speaking, there could be no individual sin till there was a law to be broken.

But in the interval between Adam and Moses, i.e., before the institution of law, death prevailed, over the world. which was a proof that there was sin somewhere.

The solution is, that the sin in question was not the individual guilt of individual transgressors, but the single transgression of Adam.
and
As by one man.—This clause, “As by one man sin and death entered,” ought to have been answered by “So by one Man grace and life entered.”

But a difficulty occurs at the very outset. How can it really be said that sin and death entered by Adam? For sin does not exist without law, and the law did not come in till Moses.

And yet we have proof that sin must have been there; for death, its consequence, prevailed all through this period in which law was still wanting. The fact was, the sin which then prevailed, and had such wide and disastrous effects, was Adam’s.
source: Ellicottì's Commentary

Romans 5:12 Commentaries: Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

 

[GodsGrace]

I just believe that Romans 8:3 emphasizes the weakness of the law due to our flesh; but through faith in Christ, we can repent of our sins and receive eternal life. The price Jesus paid on the cross forgives all charges against us, and Abraham's righteousness came through his faith in God, making him worthy of eternal life.

Romans 8:3-4 (NKJV) 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God [did] by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The above is very true Selah...
but I think the conversation here is regarding the sin of Adam.
Are we actually GUILTY of Adam's sin
or
Do we just suffer from the consequence of his disobedience to God?

(which would be our having the sin nature and tending toward sin, at least till salvation).

 

[GodsGrace]

@Jim

I was expecting a reply to my posts to you...
no. 7975 and 7976.

Interested in your reply..but no problem if you don't wish to discuss.

 

[Red Baker]

@dwight92070

If nothing happens except the will of God, then there's no other conclusion but that God is indeed the author of sin. Calvinists can deny that, but there's no detour around it. If Calvinism is correct, then God creates sin.

Anyone who knows and understands the Bible - and therefore knows and understands God - knows that He CANNOT be the author and creator of sin. Therefore Calvinism CANNOT be correct.

Isaiah 45:7​

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

​

WHERE DID SIN COME FROM? IN WHAT SENSE SHOULD WE UNDERSTAND ISAIAH 45:7? ​

God is the First Cause of all things, but He is not the direct and immediate cause of all things. If I hold a book in the air, I am the direct and immediate cause of it not falling. But if I let go of the book, I am not the direct and immediate cause of it falling. He was the direct and immediate cause of light but only the indirect cause of sin.

God has created and planned all things large and small by eternal counsel for His own glory. He created man with the ability to choose to keep His rules or to break His rules. He placed man in a perfect world with one commandment, but He also created Satan. He could easily have fenced the tree, restrained Adam, or kept Satan out of the garden. He allowed sin in the world to manifest His infinite glory in salvation and damnation, along with many other facts/truths. God restrains sin if He chooses, or He allows sin and governs it, and "secures victory" over sin for his people. (Psalm 76:10; Genesis 20:6; Exodus 34:24; Romans 7:25; 1st Corinthians 15:57). Selah.

 

[GodsGrace]

So Adam changed the biology of human beings. Interesting, but I don't find that anywhere in scripture.

Sorry Jim,,,just saw this.
YES. Adam changed the biology of human beings with his first sin which broke our perfect relationship with God.

Do you believe Adam was formed perfectly?
Or with defects?
God stated that everything He created was good.
After creating man, God stated that everything He created was very good.
Genesis 1:31
31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

If God HIMSELF, stated that everything was very good....
He either didn't mean it
or VERY GOOD means NOT very good at all.