I don't think that is biblically supportable.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
You called it.
You free-willians believe you buy your way into heaven with your natural fleshly free-will faith payment in their "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (The Word of God, John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so they believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
You also believe that you are doomed without your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation".
Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GRACIOUS BENEFACTOR!!!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Did Christ have a human spirit? Did Christ possess the Spirit of God?
The only possible way to discern this topic is know the complexity that existed in the Incarnation. The Hypostatic Union.
If Christ possessed both a human and Divine Spirit, which He did, then what most people believe about the innate qualities of humanity isn't true.
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I know what Paul teaches, Adam (as a created adult with sufficient knowledge) gets all the blame and we all are his victims because 2 people had sex? Notable by incentive of the Lord? - Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.
So you were born (not as an adult with knowledge), but helpless, done nothing wrong, but already on your way to hell and God did not tell you? There is no concept of hell in the whole OT, except in Daniel 12:2 the first sign of it. And did anybody ask your permission to be born on your way to hell?
Enough philosophical stuff, part of my list of unanswerable questions.
And yes I agree, it's what Scripture teaches, we are all in Adam.
MTMattie
Well-known member
MPV: quoting from
so I won't directly be blamed. One of these posters is closer to what I have learned, but then I may be wrong and they will be too.
Spirit
The spirit is considered the innermost part of a person, the element that connects with God. It is through the spirit that individuals are able to have a relationship with the Divine. The spirit is often associated with the breath of life given by God. In Genesis 2:7 , it is written, "Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being." This breath of life is understood to be the spirit, which animates the body and soul.
The New Testament further emphasizes the role of the spirit in the believer's life. In John 4:24 , Jesus states, "God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth." This highlights the necessity of the spirit in true worship and communion with God. Additionally, the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:11 notes, "For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." Here, the spirit is depicted as the seat of understanding and discernment.
Soul
The soul is often seen as the seat of emotions, will, and intellect. It is the aspect of humanity that encompasses personality and individuality. The soul is what makes each person unique, reflecting their thoughts, desires, and decisions. In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word "nephesh" is frequently translated as "soul," indicating a living being with emotional and psychological components.
In the New Testament, the Greek word "psyche" is used to describe the soul. Jesus speaks of the soul's value in Matthew 16:26 : "What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?" This underscores the eternal significance of the soul, which transcends earthly possessions and achievements.
The soul is also the battleground for spiritual warfare, as it is subject to the influences of both the flesh and the spirit. Believers are encouraged to renew their minds and align their souls with God's will, as seen in Romans 12:2 : "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
Christ of course had the Holy Spirit, He was God in the flesh. No 2 spirits.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Not true at all. The construct of
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Will not support your false claims.
Not true at all. God didn't repent of creating man until long after the creation event. Even then, it due to the fact man had forgotten Him.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
While I disagree with some things you said above, it is rather preposterous how some "theologians" ignore such facts.
It is difficult to deal with an independent mind. Humanity is so independent of one another (at times, that is good and at times that is bad) it is amazing we can accomplish anything.
When society begins to bond together in a single unified purpose, it is usually something evil. Not always but usually.
Either way, none of such things equal the idea that mankind is wholly corrupt to the point of not being able to naturally sense God.
It is stupid because it is wrong, stupidly wrong. No one here has ever said they believe they buy their way into heaven. You have a nasty habit of lying about so much of what is written, here and in the Bible. You are either lying or just plain stupid. In your determinist theology, I guess you must think it is God who causes you to lie like that.
MTMattie
Well-known member
@Kermos
Does sovereign have to mean control?
Why yes, according to Ai In the Bible, "sovereign" refers to God's supreme authority and power over all creation, emphasizing His control, governance, and ultimate rule over the universe and human history. It signifies that nothing occurs outside of His will or knowledge, affirming His omnipotence and omniscience.
Does this statement "nothing occurs outside of His will or knowledge," mean that he is causing every thing happen?
Or ... Does this statement mean that he permits, under His knowledge, things to happen that he is overseeing but not
controlling... Such as the train derailment in Ohio, or hurricane and tornado destructions nationwide every year,
or even such mundane things as Drag queen events for kids?
I am simply curious to understand you actual explanation of sovereign within this world we are forced to live in.
And in your opinion is there anyway to avoid things other then digging an underground living area and never coming up?
Does sovereign have to mean control?
Why yes, according to Ai In the Bible, "sovereign" refers to God's supreme authority and power over all creation, emphasizing His control, governance, and ultimate rule over the universe and human history. It signifies that nothing occurs outside of His will or knowledge, affirming His omnipotence and omniscience.
Does this statement "nothing occurs outside of His will or knowledge," mean that he is causing every thing happen?
Or ... Does this statement mean that he permits, under His knowledge, things to happen that he is overseeing but not
controlling... Such as the train derailment in Ohio, or hurricane and tornado destructions nationwide every year,
or even such mundane things as Drag queen events for kids?
I am simply curious to understand you actual explanation of sovereign within this world we are forced to live in.
And in your opinion is there anyway to avoid things other then digging an underground living area and never coming up?
brightfame52
Well-known member
All that is the fruit of being saved, like hearing, you have to be of God to hear Jn 10:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Now who does Jesus say it is who hears the word of God ?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
No human spirit?
civic
Well-known member
your English dictionary has nothing to do with the N.T. Greek words in a lexicon.
infuse
Definition, Synonyms, Translations of infuse by The Free Dictionarywww.thefreedictionary.com
Infuse essentially conveys "To put into or introduce as if by pouring".
impart
Definition, Synonyms, Translations of impart by The Free Dictionary
Impart essentially conveys "To grant a share of; bestow".
Cause essentially conveys "make, create, produce".
control
Definition, Synonyms, Translations of control by The Free Dictionary
Control essentially conveys "To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct".
Lord and God Jesus Christ controls me to proclaim my deeply rooted belief about us Christians that the love of Christ controls us (2 Corinthians 5:14).
You deny that the love of Christ controls you caused by your free-will.
Your confused "it would be foolish of Paul to point out faith is not produced by works" because Paul clearly conveys the work of faith in us Christians is caused by the work of God with:
by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
Even the work of faith is covered by we are His work (Ephesians 2:10), and all good works by us Christians are controlled by we are His work (Ephesians 2:10).
You most certainly do persistently sever the sense of saved through faith from the full cohesive sense of by grace you are saved through faith as a full concept associated with that in Ephesians 2:8, and the proof is in your "the syntactical argument showing the pronoun "this" does not refer back to faith" combined with your "Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part". Your severance is deception.
In Ephesians 2:8, Holy Spirit inspired Paul makes amazingly clear that God's gift of faith is not a work of man with faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God because Greek grammar requires that the case/gender/count mismatch in the verse forces the closest two words of faith and that to bind in agreement.
The Apostle Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
once again your are wrong.
You believe that your will is separated from God in such a way that you can choose God in your own initiative and that God in no way controls your will to accomplish your exclusive choice. This is your side of the transaction.
Your choice results in God responding to you by supplying you with salvation, and herein resides God's side of the transaction.
Your choice purchases salvation from God in an exchange.
You believe that without your choice, then you would not have salvation, so God does not provide salvation to you in the absence of your choice; therefore, without your choice initiating the transaction, you wouldn't have salvation.
Hence, Free-willian Philosophy accurately leads to "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation".
Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS!!!
Interpreted correctly, the Greek word κτίσις [ktisis] should be translated as creature, meaning human beings. There is no rational way to think that anything except the human being is waiting to be set free from bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
The phrase there, πάσῃ τῇ κτίσει, is the same as occurs in Mark 16:15 where it says ""Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation". No one seriously thinks that we should be proclaiming the gospel to any creation other than human beings.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It is silly for you to place the constraints of Mark 16:15 upon Romans 8:22.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. There is life that exists for the pleasure of mankind. In the book of Genesis they're referenced as "helpers".
Gen 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone, let us make for him a help suitable to him.
Gen 2:19 And God formed yet farther out of the earth all the wild beasts of the field, and all the birds of the sky, and he brought them to Adam, to see what he would call them, and whatever Adam called any living creature, that was the name of it.
In the same manner this Greek source is used in Hebrew 13:6 which is an appeal to Psalm 54:4
Heb 13:6 So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”
Psa 54:4 For lo! God assists me; and the Lord is the helper of my soul.
Whether you realize this or not, God has given us so many things to "help us". They are literally "helps to our soul". Eve was one. So were animals and all life upon this dead rock that existed before God created Adam.
I know what you believe already. Which is why I said that believe "life/animals" just "disappear"...
Creation will be delivered from bondage WITH US. You might NOT want to include other life in your exclusivity in "eternal life" but they shall live because WE LIVE. We live because of Christ. They live because of us. This bondage that exists among them is of our making. They were unwillingly subjected to our own bondage.
Isa 65:25 Then wolves and lambs shall feed together, and the lion shall eat chaff like the ox, and the serpent earth as bread. They shall not injure nor destroy in my holy mountain, saith the Lord.
You come in here defending free-will, but now you deny that your free-will is separated from God in such a way that you can choose God in your own initiative.
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE YESHUA!!!
What does that even mean, given what Peter said:
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness (2 Pet 3:10).
You think burned up is deliverance?
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. That is becoming more and more apparent with post such as this one.
