An Article on free will

[brightfame52]

@MTMattie

Are you including free will believers in this statement? Are we... I'll adjust that to say about me, am I one of the ones that has been blinded by God and my ears have been closed making me an unbeliever as YOU said?

Everyone who is lost, cant believe the Gospel, its hidden to the lost

 

[brightfame52]

@Johann

“One has to be saved to believe the Gospel.”
Response: One must believe the gospel to be saved, not the reverse.
Romans 1:16

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth…”

Yes one has to be saved to believe the Gospel, otherwise its hidden to the lost

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry no as I never stated the Hebrew race is saved. You read that idea into my words as you read your theology into scripture.

Kindly quote what it is you are supposed to be responding to so it may be determined wether your comment actually address what was posted and actually provide a rebuttal

First you are reading your theology into the passage.

Rather an unlimited atonement is in view as the writer just stated

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

Second the text before us is not Gal 3:29 but

Hebrews 2:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Which is speaking of the incarnation

And it is flesh and blood humanity Christ took upon himself; in particular the humanity seen in the Jewish people


And as for seed of Abraham

2 Chron 20:7Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
Isa 41:8But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, The seed of Abraham my friend.
Jer 33:26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Rom 9:7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 11:1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 Cor 11:22Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
Heb 2:16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


It seems to me you never address the point raised that it is the incarnation which is in view that is Christ taking on the nature of man

Christ came to save the seed of Abraham, not all mankind Heb 2:16 and the seed of Abraham He came to save is His Church that belongs to Him Gal 3:29, the rest dont belong to Him, He never knew them

 

[TomL]

You continue to be misled by your adherence to traducianism. It is false. It is heresy.

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Cain, Abel, Seth, and all the children of Adam and Eve and their descendants received their flesh from their parents and their spirits from Spirit, i.e., God.

Note on theories for the creation of the soul

Theologians throughout history have advanced three primary theories about the origin of all souls subsequent to Adam’s. Most theologians in the Christian tradition have taught that each soul is supernaturally created by God, like Adam’s was (“creationism”). Others have taught that the soul is created through the natural process of reproduction, propagated from the souls of the parents like bodies are born from bodies (“traducianism”). Some, likely under the influence of Greek philosophy, taught that because souls are inherently immortal they must have always preexisted the temporal creation of their respective human bodies (“preexistence”).

Bria Burns, “The Origin of the Soul,” in Lexham Survey of Theology (ed. Mark Ward et al.; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2018).

 

[TomL]

Christ came to save the seed of Abraham, not all mankind Heb 2:16 and the seed of Abraham He came to save is His Church that belongs to Him Gal 3:29, the rest dont belong to Him, He never knew them

Can you address what was stated

Sorry no as I never stated the Hebrew race is saved. You read that idea into my words as you read your theology into scripture.

Kindly quote what it is you are supposed to be responding to so it may be determined wether your comment actually address what was posted and actually provide a rebuttal

First you are reading your theology into the passage.

Rather an unlimited atonement is in view as the writer just stated

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

Second the text before us is not Gal 3:29 but

Hebrews 2:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Which is speaking of the incarnation

And it is flesh and blood humanity Christ took upon himself; in particular the humanity seen in the Jewish people


And as for seed of Abraham

2 Chron 20:7Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
Isa 41:8But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, The seed of Abraham my friend.
Jer 33:26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Rom 9:7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 11:1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 Cor 11:22Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
Heb 2:16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


It seems to me you never address the point raised that it is the incarnation which is in view that is Christ taking on the nature of man

 

[brightfame52]

Can you address what was stated

Christ came to save the seed of Abraham, not all mankind Heb 2:16 and the seed of Abraham He came to save is His Church that belongs to Him Gal 3:29, the rest dont belong to Him, He never knew them

 

[TomL]

Christ came to save the seed of Abraham, not all mankind Heb 2:16 and the seed of Abraham He came to save is His Church that belongs to Him Gal 3:29, the rest dont belong to Him, He never knew them

Still do not see you address what was stated

Sorry no as I never stated the Hebrew race is saved. You read that idea into my words as you read your theology into scripture.

Kindly quote what it is you are supposed to be responding to so it may be determined wether your comment actually address what was posted and actually provide a rebuttal

First you are reading your theology into the passage.

Rather an unlimited atonement is in view as the writer just stated

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

Second the text before us is not Gal 3:29 but

Hebrews 2:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Which is speaking of the incarnation

And it is flesh and blood humanity Christ took upon himself; in particular the humanity seen in the Jewish people


And as for seed of Abraham

2 Chron 20:7Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
Isa 41:8But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, The seed of Abraham my friend.
Jer 33:26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Rom 9:7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 11:1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 Cor 11:22Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
Heb 2:16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


It seems to me you never address the point raised that it is the incarnation which is in view that is Christ taking on the nature of man

Personally, i think it is a lack of integrity to avoid quoting what has been stated.

 

[brightfame52]

Still do not see you address what was stated



Personally, i think it is a lack of integrity to avoid quoting what has been stated.

No need to go through all that, Jesus came to save the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16 ,not all mankind and the seed of Abraham are them who belong to Him Gal 3:29 so nothing you have posted refutes that.

 

[TomL]

No need to go through all that, Jesus came to save the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16 ,not all mankind and the seed of Abraham are them who belong to Him Gal 3:29 so nothing you have posted refutes that.

You are dodging yet again

Rather an unlimited atonement is in view as the writer just stated

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

Second the text before us is not Gal 3:29 but

Hebrews 2:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Which is speaking of the incarnation

And it is flesh and blood humanity Christ took upon himself; in particular the humanity seen in the Jewish people


And as for seed of Abraham

2 Chron 20:7Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
Isa 41:8But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, The seed of Abraham my friend.
Jer 33:26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Rom 9:7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 11:1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 Cor 11:22Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
Heb 2:16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


It seems to me you never address the point raised that it is the incarnation which is in view that is Christ taking on the nature of man

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

You are dodging yet again

Im not dodging nothing, Im explaining my pov with scripture. Jesus came to make reconcilition for sin for one particular people, the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16-17 and its not ethnic israel, now some ethnic jews are included, because some of them were part of the Body of Christ, the Church, which is the seed of Abraham Gal 3:29

 

[Jim]

@MTMattie @Jim @civic @GodsGrace @synergy @brightfame52 @Kermos @TomL

Jim do you mean ~Monergism? You believe in synergistic regeneration, not me.

Yes, clearly my mistake.

 

[Jim]

Note on theories for the creation of the soul

Theologians throughout history have advanced three primary theories about the origin of all souls subsequent to Adam’s. Most theologians in the Christian tradition have taught that each soul is supernaturally created by God, like Adam’s was (“creationism”). Others have taught that the soul is created through the natural process of reproduction, propagated from the souls of the parents like bodies are born from bodies (“traducianism”). Some, likely under the influence of Greek philosophy, taught that because souls are inherently immortal they must have always preexisted the temporal creation of their respective human bodies (“preexistence”).

Bria Burns, “The Origin of the Soul,” in Lexham Survey of Theology (ed. Mark Ward et al.; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2018).

Only the first one has any theological basis. The second one has no basis in either theology of science. The third one is incorrect in the sense that immortality does not demand preexistence.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You continue to be misled by your adherence to traducianism. It is false. It is heresy.

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Cain, Abel, Seth, and all the children of Adam and Eve and their descendants received their flesh from their parents and their spirits from Spirit, i.e., God.

There is a spirit of a man. It is intrinsically linked to the life of a man. Concepts of such things exist in the teachings of dichotomy and trichotomy. I'm surprised that so few people actually know anything about such things.

The body came from God and was composed of the dust/ashes of the earth. God formed the body and breathed into Adam the breath of life. There is no narrative that the same thing happened to Eve. The life Eve had came from Adam.

The spirit of man/woman comes from the joined of life that God split between Adam and Eve when the children of Adam are conceived. Such in the innate aspects of our human existence.

Someone/Everyone needs to understand what the Scriptures teach about the "make up" of our human lives in God. Unless people embrace/know the differences between dichotomy and trichotomy, they will never truly understand the Scriptures.

Most avoid it. There is a very significant difference relative to Eternal Life between the two.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Only the first one has any theological basis. The second one has no basis in either theology of science. The third one is incorrect in the sense that immortality does not demand preexistence.

@TomL

Prove that souls are innate immortal. Forget about the English word "inherently". Immortality deals with preexisting life. It is just not a point in time appealing from non-existence forward. It is paradoxical and only finds reality in Jesus Christ and Divinity.

 

[Jim]

The spirit of man/woman comes from the joined of life that God split between Adam and Eve when the children of Adam are conceived. Such in the innate aspects of our human existence.

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:

Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Man is a living soul (Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul). His flesh was formed of the dust of the ground.

All of which says that man is a living soul; he has a body (flesh) and a spirit. In both the OT and the NT when speaking of man, the soul and the spirit are almost always used interchangeably even if there is, strictly speaking, a difference.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:

Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Man is a living soul (Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul). His flesh was formed of the dust of the ground.

All of which says that man is a living soul; he has a body (flesh) and a spirit. In both the OT and the NT when speaking of man, the soul and the spirit are almost always used interchangeably even if there is, strictly speaking, a difference.

The life of a man/women is shared in the soul/spirit of a man. God gave this power to Adam. That is why we are the descendants of Adam. It is not just the flesh that we gain from our parents. This flesh dies without the animating spirit/soul God gave to Adam.

 

[Jim]

@TomL

Prove that souls are innate immortal. Forget about the English word "inherently". Immortality deals with preexisting life. It is just not a point in time appealing from non-existence forward. It is paradoxical and only finds reality in Jesus Christ and Divinity.

I am not sure what you are saying. To be immortal is not the same as to be eternal. Immortality says nothing about a beginning.

 

[Jim]

The life of a man/women is shared in the soul/spirit of a man. God gave this power to Adam. That is why we are the descendants of Adam. It is not just the flesh that we gain from our parents. This flesh dies without the animating spirit/soul God gave to Adam.

I have no idea what you are trying to say there. The Hebrew word for soul (nephesh) is applied to blooded animals as well (see Genesis 1:20). Spirit on the other hand is almost solely identified with the human being.

 

[brightfame52]

@praise_yeshua

There is a spirit of a man. It is intrinsically linked to the life of a man. Concepts of such things exist in the teachings of dichotomy and trichotomy. I'm surprised that so few people actually know anything about such things.

Fallen man needs a new spirit, God gives one in regeneration, along with a new heart Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The natural spirit of a man is defiled and profitless in the things of God, its just a fallen human spirit.

It needs to be sanctified, set apart for God 1 Thess 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Everything man received from adam by the fall is dead and worthless to the things of God

 

[praise_yeshua]

I am not sure what you are saying. To be immortal is not the same as to be eternal. Immortality says nothing about a beginning.

Ah English......

What if I told you that ἀθανασία is the antithesis of death θάνατος

ἀθανασία is only found three times in the canonical NT and only once in the Greek OT.