An Article on free will

[Red Baker]

@MTMattie @Jim @civic @GodsGrace @synergy @brightfame52 @Kermos @TomL @dwight92070

Jesus is the Chosen One of God. All those who receive the gospel of Jesus and who put their faith in Him are transferred into His kingdom. Col.1:13 Now, being in HIM, that is IN THE CHOSEN ONE, we ourselves are CHOSEN IN HIM

Greetings dwight,

There's a few problems with this short post, that I almost decided to just pass over without commenting ~ then I thought again, and decided that I at least should add a few thoughts lest any young believer is mislead.

Jesus is indeed God's Chosen One to secured eternal life for his elect children.

Isaiah 42:1​

“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”

Though Christ is God's Chosen One, we who are part of his body, he being the head thereof, are chosen at the same time with him and placed in him as members of his elect body.

Psalms 139:16​

“Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.”

Before they had done any good or evil, all of the elect were chosen in Christ from eternity. Dwight, we were in Christ "before" we had done any good (faith) or any evil, that the purpose of God's election of grace would forever stand firm.

Romans 9:11​

“(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth”

because God chose us according to His foreknowledge (1 Pet.1:1-2

God's infinite knowledge "knew" that if he did not elect some, then none would ever had been saved by their own faith/good works, etc. ~that's the true biblical meaning of God's foreknowledge, not the way you were explaining it. The way you were explaining elect according to God's foreknowledge, would meant that God created and then waited to see what man would do ~That's limiting God's infinite Knowledge to wait and see, and the act accordingly. That's not the God we worship and serve.

It's up to us whether we want to become part of that body or not. If we repent and believe in Jesus, we are in that body. If we don't, we are not.

That's another gospel that is promoting man's power to do spiritual acts apart from God first creating in him the power to do so. Upi should reconsider this false teaching that promote man and said little of what Christ secured for us by his life of obedience and faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Wrong as Paul in 1 Cor 2-3 is describing the same carnal believers.

You deceived, I explained it to you. The Lost person cannot believe the Gospel because its hid from him 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If Jesus saves them from the works of the devil, they will believe, but if He doesnt, they cant believe.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus is the Chosen One of God. All those who receive the gospel of Jesus and who put their faith in Him are transferred into His kingdom. Col.1:13 Now, being in HIM, that is IN THE CHOSEN ONE, we ourselves are CHOSEN IN HIM. Eph.1:4 Yes, we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world (Eph.1:4), because God chose us according to His foreknowledge (1 Pet.1:1-2). He knew way back then, who would follow Him and who would not.
John 6:64 "For Jesus knew FROM THE BEGINNING, who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him."

From the beginning, God determined that the body of Christ would spend eternity with Him. It's up to us whether we want to become part of that body or not. If we repent and believe in Jesus, we are in that body. If we don't, we are not.

This is error, all men by nature are dead to God and His enemy

 

[civic]

You deceived, I explained it to you. The Lost person cannot believe the Gospel because its hid from him 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If Jesus saves them from the works of the devil, they will believe, but if He doesnt, they cant believe.

wrong book and chapter we are talking about 1 Cor 2-3.

 

[brightfame52]

. If we are not free from God in any sense, then we have no "free will" or "freedom" in any sense, that is, in the context of discussing divine determinism. Vincent cheung https://www.vincentcheung.com/books/The Author of Sin.pdf

 

[civic]

. If we are not free from God in any sense, then we have no "free will" or "freedom" in any sense, that is, in the context of discussing divine determinism. Vincent cheung https://www.vincentcheung.com/books/The Author of Sin.pdf

appeal to authority fallacy.

next

 

[TomL]

The writer of Hebrews was teaching a limited atonement Heb 2:16-17. No they were not physical jews, but Abrahams seed through Christ Gal 3:28-29

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You are basing salvation on race now, thats another heresy, on ones physical heritage

Sorry no you are reading your theology into the passage.

Rather an unlimited atonement is in view as the writer just stated

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

And as for seed of Abraham

2 Chron 20:7Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
Isa 41:8But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, The seed of Abraham my friend.
Jer 33:26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Rom 9:7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 11:1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 Cor 11:22Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
Heb 2:16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry no you are reading your theology into the passage.

Rather an unlimited atonement is in view as the writer just stated

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

And as for seed of Abraham

2 Chron 20:7Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
Isa 41:8But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, The seed of Abraham my friend.
Jer 33:26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Rom 9:7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 11:1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 Cor 11:22Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
Heb 2:16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

The seed of Abraham in Heb 2:16 is the Church, the Body of Christ, Gal 3:29

29 ;And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You have fallen for the jews racial pride salvation

 

[civic]

The seed of Abraham in Heb 2:16 is the Church, the Body of Christ, Gal 3:29

29 ;And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You have fallen for the jews racial pride salvation

projecting again

 

[Kermos]

Yes, The work that God accepts is faith

Acts 16:31 (NASB95) — 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

John 20:31 (NASB95) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

John 3:36 (NASB95) — 36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 3:14–16 (NASB95) — 14 “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

which is why scripture tells men to believe

Yes, The work that God accepts is faith in Acts 16:31 because “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

Yes, The work that God accepts is faith in John 20:31 because “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

Yes, The work that God accepts is faith in John 3:36 because “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

Yes, The work that God accepts is faith in John 3:14-16 because “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

 

[TomL]

Yes, The work that God accepts is faith in Acts 16:31 because “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

Yes, The work that God accepts is faith in John 20:31 because “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

Yes, The work that God accepts is faith in John 3:36 because “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

Yes, The work that God accepts is faith in John 3:14-16 because “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

Again simply repeating the verse without any consideration of context does nothing to help your argument

Context shows

John 6:27–35 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.


1 Jesus told them to work
2 the Jews understood Jesus statement in verse 29 to mean God wants them to believe
3 The Jews ask for a sign that they might believe
4 Jesus tells them to do something - to come to him and believe on him

The context is antithetical to an idea they were to do nothing because God was going to do it all.

 

[TomL]

The seed of Abraham in Heb 2:16 is the Church, the Body of Christ, Gal 3:29

29 ;And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You have fallen for the jews racial pride salvation

First you are reading your theology into the passage.

Rather an unlimited atonement is in view as the writer just stated

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

Second the text before us is not Gal 3:29 but

Hebrews 2:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Which is speaking of the incarnation

And it is flesh and blood humanity Christ took upon himself; in particular the humanity seen in the Jewish people

And as for seed of Abraham

2 Chron 20:7Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
Isa 41:8But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, The seed of Abraham my friend.
Jer 33:26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Rom 9:7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 11:1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 Cor 11:22Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
Heb 2:16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

 

[TomL]

Jesus is the Chosen One of God. All those who receive the gospel of Jesus and who put their faith in Him are transferred into His kingdom. Col.1:13 Now, being in HIM, that is IN THE CHOSEN ONE, we ourselves are CHOSEN IN HIM. Eph.1:4 Yes, we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world (Eph.1:4), because God chose us according to His foreknowledge (1 Pet.1:1-2). He knew way back then, who would follow Him and who would not.
John 6:64 "For Jesus knew FROM THE BEGINNING, who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him."

From the beginning, God determined that the body of Christ would spend eternity with Him. It's up to us whether we want to become part of that body or not. If we repent and believe in Jesus, we are in that body. If we don't, we are not.

Yes, Christ is the elect one and we are elect in him

 

[brightfame52]

First you are reading your theology into the passage.

Rather an unlimited atonement is in view as the writer just stated

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

Second the text before us is not Gal 3:29 but

Hebrews 2:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Which is speaking of the incarnation

And it is flesh and blood humanity Christ took upon himself; in particular the humanity seen in the Jewish people

The seed of Abraham of Heb 2:16 is none other than His Church, the Body of Christ, He the Head and they the Body, He came to make reconciliation for her sins. You have fallen prey to race salvation like the deceived jews.

 

[TomL]

You deceived, I explained it to you. The Lost person cannot believe the Gospel because its hid from him 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If Jesus saves them from the works of the devil, they will believe, but if He doesnt, they cant believe.

Um that text does not state the lost person cannot believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Are you going to posit there was a defect in the work of God?

As shown faith precedes salvation

Acts 16:31 (NASB95) — 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

John 20:31 (NASB95) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

John 3:36 (NASB95) — 36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 3:14–16 (NASB95) — 14 “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[TomL]

The seed of Abraham of Heb 2:16 is none other than His Church, the Body of Christ, He the Head and they the Body, He came to make reconciliation for her sins. You have fallen prey to race salvation like the deceived jews.

You ignored the context

Rather an unlimited atonement is in view as the writer just stated

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

Second the text before us is not Gal 3:29 but

Hebrews 2:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Which is speaking of the incarnation

And it is flesh and blood humanity Christ took upon himself; in particular the humanity seen in the Jewish people

and failed to address my rebuttal

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Um that text does not state the lost person cannot believe

Try believing something that is hidden from your mind, cant do it

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored the context



and failed to address my rebuttal

The seed of Abraham in Heb 2:16 isnt jews its His Body the Church that belongs to Him Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Dont fall for that race salvation, thats of the flesh, confidence in the flesh.

 

[TomL]

@TomL



Try believing something that is hidden from your mind, cant do it

but you can believe something that is revealed

and if you read the context

2 Corinthians 4:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.

The god of this world (ὁ θεος του αἰωνος τουτου [ho theos tou aiōnos toutou]). “Age,” more exactly, as in 1 Cor. 1:20. Satan is “the god of this age,” a phrase nowhere else in the N. T., but Jesus uses the same idea in John 12:31; 14:30 and Paul in Eph. 2:2; 6:12 and John in 1 John 5:19. Satan claimed the rule over the world in the temptations with Jesus. Blinded (ἐτυφλωσεν [etuphlōsen]). First aorist active of τυφλοω [tuphloō], old verb to blind (τυφλος [tuphlos], blind). They refused to believe (ἀπιστων [apistōn]) and so Satan got the power to blind their thoughts. That happens with willful disbelievers.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), 2 Co 4:4.

Hath blinded the minds of them which believe not. Of all who discern no beauty in the gospel, and who reject it. It is implied here, (1.) That the minds of unbelievers are blinded; that they perceive no beauty in the gospel. This is often affirmed of those who reject the gospel, and who live in sin

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: II Corinthians & Galatians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 76.

 

[TomL]

The seed of Abraham in Heb 2:16 isnt jews its His Body the Church that belongs to Him Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Dont fall for that race salvation, thats of the flesh, confidence in the flesh.

Never stated a word about race salvation

And this still remains true

Hebrews 2:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

The text is speaking of the incarnation

And it is flesh and blood humanity Christ took upon himself; in particular the humanity seen in the Jewish people