An Article on free will

@TomL

but you can believe something that is revealed

Thats true, but not something that is hid, and the Gospel is hid to them that are lost. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The word hid is in the perfect tense and so its a completed action in the past with results active in the present, its permanent. And the word means:

καλύπτω:

To cover, to hide, to veil, to conceal
Meaning: I veil, hide, conceal, envelop.

When its hid, its not revealed as stated here Matt 11:25

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
 
@MTMattie @Jim @civic @GodsGrace @synergy @brightfame52 @Kermos @TomL @dwight92070
The Lost person cannot believe the Gospel because its hid from him 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:​

Paul called it his gospel, because he was called by God to be the principal preacher of it, and it was not the other gospel of the false teachers (2nd Corinthians 11:1-4; Galatians 1:6-9).

Here is a general rule, mark it well, and never forget it: if the gospel does not affect a person, they prove they are perishing (2nd Cor. 2:14-17). Those who think the gospel is foolishness are not born again (Ist Cor 1:18,22-23; 2:14; John 8:47).

Only those elect and born again, who are sheep will receive the gospel (Ist Cor 1:18,24; 2:15; John 3:3; 5:24; 10:26).

Paul answered objections against his preaching by transferring the problem to the hearers. Paul’s simple, plain, clear, and bold methods were more than enough to convert God’s elect. The fault in the paltry results of gospel preaching is not the preacher, but the lost souls of hearers.

If preaching is modified to attract more, the results will be professing reprobates (I Cor 2:1-5; 2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5)! Paul condemned any modification of preaching methods or content for our day (2nd Thess 2:1-10).

Jesus Christ proved by the choice of illiterate fishermen that he did not need eloquent orators! John the Baptist, a wild man if there ever was one, turned Judea upside down by bold preaching ~not your typical TV evangelist, or the First Baptist Church downtown preacher, etc.

"The opinion" of the lost against the gospel is no more than a deaf man’s complaint against music!

Here is something incredible! Most men on this forum and in churches around the world, think that they can save the lost by presenting the gospel! How can you save a lost person by the gospel, if the gospel is hid from those that are lost? This is the same false reasoning that presents the kingdom to get someone born again (John 3:3)!

It makes perfect sense that a person must be saved to appreciate the gospel (Ist Cor 1:18,24; 2:14-15). Until God opens a heart and gives them repentance, any preaching is hopeless (2nd Tim 2:25-26) ~if you think otherwise, then you are holding to a lie, not much different than those here: Isaiah 44:9-20!

And God only gives such repentance to those ordained to eternal life (John 6:37-39; Acts 13:48). There is no fault with God in this situation, for man chose Satan over Him in Eden and everyday!
 
@MTMattie @Jim @civic @GodsGrace @synergy @brightfame52 @Kermos @TomL

Nora, no offense, but your wording is much to be desire, since it's hard to know exactly what you are laboring to convey to those who read your post.

Adam and Eve sinned the very second God left them to themselves, we know this by the fact that no angels or flesh and blood are immutable, unless protected by God's power to secured them.

Those that Adam beget were conceived in his fallen image.

Genesis 5:3​

“And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:”

Likeness begets likeness is a law that that even nature teaches us.

Seth was conceived in Adam's own likeness, after his image; not in the likeness, and after the image of God, in which Adam was created; for having sinned, he lost that image, at least it was greatly defaced, with only a shadow left, if even that ~ and does not convey God's image in which he was created to his posterity; who are, and ever have been conceived in sin, and shapen in iniquity; are polluted and unclean, foolish and disobedient; averse to all that is good, and prone to all that is evil: the sinfulness of nature is conveyed by natural generation, but not holiness and grace; that is not of blood, nor of the will of man, nor of the flesh, but of God, and produced of his own will, by his mighty power creating the image of his Son in regeneration in his people; which by beholding his glory they are more and more changed into by the Spirit of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:16​

“For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
You continue to be misled by your adherence to traducianism. It is false. It is heresy.

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Cain, Abel, Seth, and all the children of Adam and Eve and their descendants received their flesh from their parents and their spirits from Spirit, i.e., God.
 
@Red Baker


Here is a general rule, mark it well, and never forget it: if the gospel does not affect a person, they prove they are perishing (2nd Cor. 2:14-17). Those who think the gospel is foolishness are not born again (Ist Cor 1:18,22-23; 2:14; John 8:47).

Only those elect and born again, who are sheep will receive the gospel (Ist Cor 1:18,24; 2:15; John 3:3; 5:24; 10:26).

This pretty much sums up my point, one has to be saved to believe the Gospel because its hid to them that are lost, perishing.
 
@MTMattie @Jim @civic @GodsGrace @synergy @brightfame52 @Kermos @TomL @dwight92070

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:​

Paul called it his gospel, because he was called by God to be the principal preacher of it, and it was not the other gospel of the false teachers (2nd Corinthians 11:1-4; Galatians 1:6-9).

Here is a general rule, mark it well, and never forget it: if the gospel does not affect a person, they prove they are perishing (2nd Cor. 2:14-17). Those who think the gospel is foolishness are not born again (Ist Cor 1:18,22-23; 2:14; John 8:47).
As is so often the case, you get things backward.

2Co 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

It is not those who are blinded that do not believe; rather, it is those who do not believe that are blinded. The distinction is between those who believe and those who do not.
Only those elect and born again, who are sheep will receive the gospel (Ist Cor 1:18,24; 2:15; John 3:3; 5:24; 10:26).
It is those who receive the gospel that are born again and become the elect (Rom 6:1-11; Gal 3:26-27; Eph1:13; Col 2:11-13).
Here is something incredible! Most men on this forum and in churches around the world, think that they can save the lost by presenting the gospel! How can you save a lost person by the gospel, if the gospel is hid from those that are lost? This is the same false reasoning that presents the kingdom to get someone born again (John 3:3)!
The gospel is not hidden from those that are lost. The gospel is hidden from those who do not believe.

Rom 1:16 ....... for it [the gospel] is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

It is sad and unfortunate that you reject the power in the gospel as God proclaims. Instead, you place the power of God for salvation ONLY in your false concept of election.
 
@Red Baker

This pretty much sums up my point, one has to be saved to believe the Gospel because its hid to them that are lost, perishing.
Again, just the opposite. One has to believe the gospel to be saved.

2Co 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.....

Clearly it is the unbelievers who are blinded. And because of that, they are lost. And it is not God who has blinded them, but rather it is the god of this world that has blinded the minds of the unbelievers. That is the reason they are perishing.
 
Again, just the opposite. One has to believe the gospel to be saved.

2Co 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.....

Clearly it is the unbelievers who are blinded. And because of that, they are lost. And it is not God who has blinded them, but rather it is the god of this world that has blinded the minds of the unbelievers. That is the reason they are perishing.
They are unbelievers because the gospel is hid from them since they are lost. How can a lost person believe that which is hidden from them ?
 
They are unbelievers because the gospel is hid from them since they are lost. How can a lost person believe that which is hidden from them ?
It would help immensely if you could comprehend what you read. Your question shows that you do not. It is by not believing that the gospel is hidden.
 
You wrote "anyone reading of Abel and Cain would say they had it" is patently false because neither @Red Baker nor @brightfame52 nor @Presby02 nor myself reading of Abel and Cain would say they had it.
Please explain why Abel, who was following the expected offering of first fruits because he obviously loved Goed and what He expected and Cain
gave from his crops , but not as a first fruits offering, but at last... when he realized God accepted Abel's sacrifice but rejected his own. This rejection led Cain to feel angry and despondent, ultimately prompting him to commit the first murder in history.

What We know...

Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the Lord. Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell. So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

So he, by choice, not predestined prodding killed his brother out of jealousy or out of despair.

If Adam and Eve had free will and blew it with God beacuse of that fruit thing... then they had 2 sons.....

Can you not see that each son made a choice for a different pathway?

Do you think God tapped Cain to be a reprobate ?

Was Cain chosen to be a reprobate to punish Adam?

If continued punishment for Adam and Eve were in the plans of God to include not only disfavor with Cain, but also favoring Abel in Adams sight so he would see what he lost....

Do you really think God plays games like this?

I say free will./

You do not.

IDC

I am done with this subject to you also.
 
They are unbelievers because the gospel is hid from them since they are lost. How can a lost person believe that which is hidden from them ?
Selective verse quotation.

Syntactical Reversal in the Calvinist Claim
The Calvinist asserts:
"They are unbelievers because the gospel is hid from them, since they are lost."

This reorders Paul’s statement. But 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 says:

εἰ δὲ καὶ ἔστιν κεκαλυμμένον τὸ εὐαγγέλιον ἡμῶν, ἐν τοῖς ἀπολλυμένοις ἐστὶν κεκαλυμμένον
“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are perishing”

Here, “being hidden” is predicated on their present state of perishing (ἀπολλυμένοις, present middle participle). Paul is not stating that the hiding of the gospel causes their perishing; rather, the gospel is hidden among those already perishing. The grammar does not support a causal reversal. Rather, it reflects a state of moral or spiritual blindness in the context of ongoing unbelief.

2. Pauline Theology Consistently Presents Unbelief as Preceding Blindness or Hardening
Romans 1:21–24:
“Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God... their foolish heart was darkened... wherefore God gave them up…”

They suppressed truth (v.18) before being handed over.


Darkness followed rebellion, not the other way around.

Romans 11:7–8:
“The rest were blinded... according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber…”

The context (vv. 3–6) shows that they rejected God before hardening followed.


Blinding is the result of sustained unbelief, not its cause.

Ephesians 4:17–18:
“...the Gentiles walk in the vanity of their mind, having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart”

Blindness is the result of hardness, not a divine imposition before any moral culpability.


3. 2 Corinthians 4:4 and the “god of this world”
“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not...”

Key syntax:
“of them which believe not” (τοῖς ἀπίστοις) — the participial phrase explains who the blinded ones are.

The blinding by Satan occurs in those who persist in unbelief.

This is not pre-belief blinding, but blinding in unbelief.

Paul’s Greek implies the blinding happens because they do not believe (cf. BDAG on ἀπιστέω: “to refuse to believe, to show unfaithfulness”), not that they do not believe because they are first blinded. Their willful rejection allows Satanic blinding—a judicial consequence of rejecting the truth (cf. 2 Thess. 2:10–12).

4. The Gospel Is Hidden Only to Those Who Reject It
2 Corinthians 3:14–16:
“...their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament... Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”

The veil (obscuration) is not fixed—it is lifted when one turns to the Lord.


Therefore, being veiled or hidden is not an absolute state, but one conditioned upon the heart's disposition.

5. Paul’s Call to Repentance Assumes Visibility of the Gospel to All
Acts 26:18 (Paul’s commission from Christ):
“To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light... that they may receive forgiveness of sins…”

This assumes that the gospel can reach those in darkness and that the purpose of gospel preaching is to pierce blindness, not affirm it.


2 Corinthians 4:6:
“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts…”

This comes after 4:4 and shows the divine response to unbelief is gospel light, not secret regeneration. There is no hint of a secret selection mechanism here; the light shines in the preaching (v.5), and in hearts when Christ is received.


6. Paul’s Concept of Lostness is Conditional, Not Fixed
2 Corinthians 2:15:
“To them that perish, and to them that are saved…”

Paul uses present participles for both: τοῖς σωζομένοις / τοῖς ἀπολλυμένοις

These are not fixed categories from eternity past, but moral and spiritual trajectories based on response to gospel truth. A person in the process of perishing can believe and be saved.

Summary of Refutation
Calvinist Claim Pauline Response
They are unbelievers because the gospel is hidden from them No — they are perishing because they reject the gospel, and it becomes veiled as a result (2 Cor. 4:3–4)
Lost people cannot believe because it is hidden Not so — Paul teaches the gospel is the means of light and God seeks all to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4)
The blinding is causal and prevents belief No — the blinding occurs in unbelief, not prior to or instead of volition (2 Cor. 4:4; Rom. 1:21)

Lostness is a fixed category No — Paul views both salvation and perishing as dynamic, not decreed categories (2 Cor. 2:15; Acts 26:18)

J.
 
They are unbelievers because the gospel is hid from them since they are lost. How can a lost person believe that which is hidden from them ?
Incl @Kermos , @Red Baker and all else who are so adamant that free will is a doctrine of the devil... (don't deny it)

@brightfame52 "They are unbelievers because the gospel is hid from them since they are lost."

Are you including free will believers in this statement? Are we... I'll adjust that to say about me, am I one of the ones that has been blinded by God and my ears have been closed making me an unbeliever as YOU said?

Do you think my blindness and deafness is why I disagree with you?

Well, if that be the case then it is God's doing so I guess there is nothing for me to do.... correct?

That makes me an unbeliever, lost, and as Johnnie said.... " would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death "... some saying damnation and others hell fire (like your avatar).

If that be the case, then there is nothing "I" can do about it. It has been decided. God said, in Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

So Johnnie is correct and blinded as I may be still understand scriptures like these.

Question. Since there would be nothing to lose at this point, can you see any reason why one should not take their own lives for reasons that are none of your business?

Just curious!
 
Um the text does not state faith is a gift and You cannot prove one assumption with another assumption

But they commonly misintepret this text, and restrict the word ‘gift’ to faith alone. But Paul is only repeating his earlier statement in other words. He does not mean that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God … " (from, Calvin’s Commentaries 4:145

And that not of yourselves. That is, salvation does not proceed from yourselves. The word rendered that—τοῦτο—is in the neuter gender, and the word faith—πίστις—is in the feminine. The word “that,” therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to the salvation by grace of which he had been speaking. This is the interpretation of the passage which is the most obvious, and which is now generally conceded to be the true one; see Bloomfield1

1 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Ephesians, Philippians & Colossians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 42.

οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων. Here the thought reverts to the main idea, the gift of salvation11 J. O. F. Murray, ed., The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Ephesians (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1914), 40.

In the Bible there is no clear and dogmatic statement that saving faith is a gift of God. On the other hand, the Bible clearly states the way in which faith is obtained: Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (Rom. 10:17). The Scriptures speak of saving faith as thy faith (Luke 7:50), his faith (Rom. 4:5), and their faith (Matt. 9:2); but never as the faith of God.


The Gift is salvation (Eternal life) confirmed

Romans 6:23 (NASB95) — 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The possibilities for faith

1 Something man must do in response to revelation
2 A gift man can refuse
3 A gift man cannot refuse; thus it is infused in him.

The third is your position

To have faith, to believe is something commanded of men throughout the scripture. Having faith is commended by Christ, while the lack of it or having but little faith is castigated. This is quite inconsistent with a theology that holds as does yours.

TomL, you accuse that I say "3 A gift man cannot refuse; thus it is infused in him. The third is your position" which I deny for I do not use your word "infuse" rather I use the word "impart" and another word as shown in the next sentence. Lord and God Jesus Christ controls me to proclaim my deeply rooted belief about us Christians that the love of Christ controls us (2 Corinthians 5:14).

Your heartfelt 'The word “that,” therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to the salvation by grace' illegally breaks the inflective Greek language's case/gender/number grammatical matching association principle because the verb "saved" with its implicit noun "you" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" and "grace" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" and "faith" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" as composed in the Holy Spirit by the Apostle Paul which results in the grammatical requirement that the word "that" be associated with the nearest preceding noun "faith" as shown in Ephesians 2:8 and detailed in post #7,315 to you.

When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of
  • grace is not a work of man.
  • grace is the work of God.
  • saved is not a work of man.
  • saved is the work of God.
  • faith is not a work of man.
  • faith is the work of God.
in Paul's writing of
by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
One of the grammatical functions of the genitive case is to establish association between two nouns. Paul used the genitive and singular combination for only two words in Ephesians 2:8, and these two words are the masculine "God" and the feminine "faith".

In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes amazingly clear that the gift of faith is not a work of man along with the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 to clearly state that faith is the gift of God because we are his work (Ephesians 2:10).

The Apostle Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
 
You should pay attention to every word of God. Now the Gospel is hid to thm that are lost. One has to be saved to believe the Gospel. The Gospel doesn't save people, it enlightens the saved.
You are in error and don't see it.

“One has to be saved to believe the Gospel.”
Response: One must believe the gospel to be saved, not the reverse.
Romans 1:16

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth…”

1 Corinthians 1:21

“It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe”

Ephesians 1:13

“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise”

In every instance, belief precedes salvation—salvation is the result, not the prerequisite, of believing the gospel.


3. Claim: “The Gospel doesn’t save people, it enlightens the saved.”
Response: The gospel is the very means by which God saves people.
1 Corinthians 15:1–2

“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel... by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you…”

Romans 10:17

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”

2 Thessalonians 2:13–14

“God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: whereunto he called you by our gospel…”

The gospel is not post-salvific instruction—it is the message that brings salvation to the lost.

It is not merely illumination for the regenerate, but a summons to repentance and faith for the unregenerate.


4. Final Summary in Pauline Language:
Romans 10:9–10

“If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness…”

Paul never teaches that one must be regenerated or “saved” prior to faith.

Instead, faith in the gospel precedes and leads to salvation, as the ordinary and universal order of divine calling and justification.


By which also ye are saved - On which your salvation depends; the belief of which is indispensable to your salvation; see the note on Mrk_16:16. The apostle thus shows the “importance” of the doctrine. In every respect it demanded their attention. It was that which was first preached among them; that which they had solemnly professed; that by which they had been built up; and that which was connected with their salvation.

It does not mean simply that by this they were brought into a salvable state (Clarke, Macknight, Whitby, Bloomfield, etc.), but it means that their hopes of eternal life rested on this; and by this they were then “in fact” saved from the condemnation of sin, and were in the possession of the hope of eternal life.

If ye keep in memory - Margin, as in the Greek, “if ye hold fast.” The idea is, that they were saved by this, or would be, if they faithfully retained or held the doctrine as he delivered it; if they observed it, and still believed it, notwithstanding all the efforts of their enemies, and all the arts of false teaching to wrest it from them. There is a doubt delicately suggested here, whether they did in fact still adhere to his doctrine, or whether they had not abandoned it in part for the opposite.

Unless ye have believed in vain - You will be saved by it, if you adhere to it, unless it shall turn out that it was vain to believe, and that the doctrine was false. That it was “not” false, he proceeds to demonstrate. Unless all your trials, discouragements, and hopes were to no purpose, and all have been the result of imposture; and unless all your profession is false and hollow, you will be saved by this great doctrine which I first preached to you.
Barnes.


"the gospel" Paul parallels the concept of "gospel" with "the word I preached to you" (1Co_15:2). In Hebrew thought there was a power to the divine word (e.g., Gen_1:3; Gen_1:6; Gen_1:9; Gen_1:11; Gen_1:14; Gen_1:20; Gen_1:24; Psa_33:6; Psa_33:9; Isa_55:11; Joh_1:1). This then is a metaphor for the content of Paul's preaching, not simply a way of referring to vocalization.
This verse has a cognate accusative, literally "the gospel which I gospeled to you."


"With Mark probably being the first written Gospel, this is the first use of the term euangelion (cf. Mar_1:14-15; Mar_8:35; Mar_10:29; Mar_13:10; Mar_14:9) by a Gospel writer (Paul's use in Gal_2:2 and 1Th_2:9 would be chronologically earlier). It is literally "the good news" or "the good message." This obviously reflects Isa_61:1 and possibly Isa_40:9; Isa_52:7.

Its grammatical form can be understood as (1) the message given by Jesus or (2) the message about Jesus. Number 2 is probably the intended meaning. However, the Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels, published by IVP, says "The genitive ('of') is probably both subjective and objective: Jesus proclaims the gospel and it proclaims his story" (p. 285). The Jerome Biblical Commentary says "Mark's use of the word 'gospel' is akin to that in Paul where it can mean either the act of proclaiming or the content of what is proclaimed."

"which also you received" This term is used by the Jews of "passed on traditions" (cf. 1Co_15:3; 1Co_11:23; 1Co_15:3; Mar_7:4; Php_4:9; 1Th_4:10; 2Th_3:6). Paul was passing on what he received (i.e., the gospel, cf. 1Co_15:3) from Christ (cf. Gal_1:12; Gal_1:16; Act_9:1-22; Act_22:3-16; Act_26:7-18).

Before Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles, he was a receiver of the gospel himself. This is an aorist active indicative. Although Jesus died for all human sin, it is obvious from this passage and others (cf. Joh_1:12; Joh_3:16; Rom_10:9-13) that each person must personally receive God's free offer (cf. 1Co_15:11) of salvation.

The gospel involves (1) the welcoming of a person; (2) believing truths about that person; and (3) living a life in emulation of that person.

"in which also you stand" This is a perfect active indicative, which denotes completed action in past time that has become a permanent state. It speaks of the necessity of perseverance-

1Co_15:2 "you are saved" This is the present passive indicative, "being saved" (cf. 1Co_1:18; 2Co_2:15; 1Pe_3:21; 1Pe_4:18). Salvation is a process toward Christlikeness.

"if" This is a First class conditional sentence, which implies that they would "hold fast" to the truth of the gospel, which he preached to them, but it adds a note of contingency by a second "ei" (i.e., unless). This seems to parallel Jesus' Parable of the Soils (cf. Matthew 13) and John's discussion in 1Jn_2:19 of those who were in the fellowship, but left.

There were those factions in Corinth who by their actions, attitudes, and theology showed they were never believers! They rejected (1) Paul's gospel; (2) Paul's apostolic authority; and (3) merged the gospel into Roman culture, whereby the culture became dominant! Cultural Christianity is always weak and sometimes not Christian!

However, please note that contextually Paul is asserting his confidence that he has that the Corinthian believers are true believers.
1. Aorist tense, 1Co_15:1, "received"
2. Perfect tense, 1Co_15:1, "in which also you stand"
3. First class conditional sentence, 1Co_15:2, "since you hold fast"

"unless you believed in vain" "If you hold fast. . .in vain." The word "vain" (eikç) means "to no purpose" (cf. Gal_3:4; Gal_4:11). It is obvious from Mat_13:1-9; Mat_13:18-23, and Joh_8:31-59 that false professions are a reality of religious life . This phrase forms the fourth in a series which describes necessary elements of the Christian life: acceptance, position, progress, and continuance. Salvation is a process which involves repentance, faith, obedience (both initially and ongoing), as well as perseverance.
Utley.

The gospel "unable" to save? How do you read the Scriptures @brightfame52?

J.
 
@MTMattie @Jim @civic @GodsGrace @synergy @brightfame52 @Kermos @TomL @dwight92070 @Johann
Incl @Kermos , @Red Baker and all else who are so adamant that free will is a doctrine of the devil... (don't deny it)
I'm not as free today, as I was yesterday, but will answer every post later, after I run an errand.

Nora, do not be concern, I would never deny any truth that has come out of my mouth ~ why should I?
You continue to be misled by your adherence to traducianism. It is false. It is heresy.

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Cain, Abel, Seth, and all the children of Adam and Eve and their descendants received their flesh from their parents and their spirits from Spirit, i.e., God.
Jim, you are very confused concerning the meaning of John 3:6, which I will address later. Actually this verse condemns your madness against God's truth...stay tune.. I'm leaving to go out of town for a couple hours, be back later, the Lord willing. I'm too busy for an old man, I need to slow down a little. I made a very short post to you yesterday, maybe you can answer that one before I get back.
 
TomL, you accuse that I say "3 A gift man cannot refuse; thus it is infused in him. The third is your position" which I deny for I do not use your word "infuse" rather I use the word "impart" and another word as shown in the next sentence. Lord and God Jesus Christ controls me to proclaim my deeply rooted belief about us Christians that the love of Christ controls us (2 Corinthians 5:14).

Your heartfelt 'The word “that,” therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to the salvation by grace' illegally breaks the inflective Greek language's case/gender/number grammatical matching association principle because the verb "saved" with its implicit noun "you" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" and "grace" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" and "faith" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" as composed in the Holy Spirit by the Apostle Paul which results in the grammatical requirement that the word "that" be associated with the nearest preceding noun "faith" as shown in Ephesians 2:8 and detailed in post #7,315 to you.

When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of
  • grace is not a work of man.
  • grace is the work of God.
  • saved is not a work of man.
  • saved is the work of God.
  • faith is not a work of man.
  • faith is the work of God.
in Paul's writing of
by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
One of the grammatical functions of the genitive case is to establish association between two nouns. Paul used the genitive and singular combination for only two words in Ephesians 2:8, and these two words are the masculine "God" and the feminine "faith".

In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes amazingly clear that the gift of faith is not a work of man along with the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 to clearly state that faith is the gift of God because we are his work (Ephesians 2:10).

The Apostle Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
Well the council of Dort - those of your theological persuasion affirmed infused faith.

Article 14 Canons of Dort states, “Faith is a gift of God, not in the sense that it is offered by God for man to choose, but that it is in actual fact bestowed on man, breathed and infused into him. Nor is it a gift in the sense that God bestows only the potential to believe, but then awaits assent—the act of believing—from man’s choice; rather, it is a gift in the sense that he who works both willing and acting and, indeed, works all things in all people produces in man both the will to believe and the belief itself.”129



David L. Allen;Steve W Lemke;; Steve W Lemke. Calvinism: A Biblical and Theological Critique (Kindle Locations 867-869). B&H Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

to impart unilaterally is to infuse

as for your statement

Your heartfelt 'The word “that,” therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to the salvation by grace' illegally breaks the inflective Greek language's case/gender/number grammatical matching association principle because the verb "saved" with its implicit noun "you" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" and "grace" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" and "faith" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" as composed in the Holy Spirit by the Apostle Paul which results in the grammatical requirement that the word "that" be associated with the nearest preceding noun "faith" as shown in Ephesians 2:8 and detailed in post #7,315 to you.

The first problem with it is It works against the position you argue for. There is no gender agreement between the word "that" and the word faith

The second problem is you try to make a verb the antecedent of a pronoun. This is gramatical folly and not what i argued for

Third when there is no grammatical gender match between a pronoun and referenced noun, a referent according to sense is taken.

Salvation the issue of the passage is such a referent according to sense

A true Greek scholar states

For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.

Finally


Ephesians 2:8, 9 is therefore the key passage: “For by grace [instrumental case, t chariti, by the instrumentality of grace] you have been saved [periphrastic perfect, looking at the present condition that flows from the prior act] through faith [dia plus the genitive, intermediate agency]; and this [neuter touto] not of you, the gift of God; not of works, in order that one may not boast. There are two reasons, one grammatical and one syntactical, for insisting that “this” does not refer back to “faith.” Grammatically, “faith” is feminine and “this” is neuter. Only an unnatural stretching of the possibilities of Greek grammar can read “faith” as the antecedent of “this.” Syntactically, the fact (often overlooked) is that there are three complements of “this” which follow it: (1) “this” (is) not of you, (2) “this” (is) God’s gift, (3) “this” (is) not of works, lest anyone boast. To read “faith” with “this” might make some kind of sense for the first two of these, but it will not work with the third: “this faith is not of works” would be nonsensical tautology in view of the fact that works is in contrast to faith already. In Ephesians 2:8, 9, therefore, “this” has for its antecedent the entire preceding clause. This fits the “rules” of Greek grammar that called for a neuter pronoun to refer to a verbal idea, and it makes perfectly good sense in the context. “By grace you have been saved by faith: and this saving experience is not of you but is the gift of God, not of works lest any boast.”



Picirilli, Robert. Grace Faith Free Will: Contrasting Views of Salvation: Calvinism & Arminianism (p. 166). Ingram Distribution. Kindle Edition.

it would be foolish of Paul to point out faith is not produced by works when works are a result of faith

regarding your statement

In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes amazingly clear that the gift of faith is not a work of man along with the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 to clearly state that faith is the gift of God because we are his work (Ephesians 2:10).

you have twisted the text

Ephesians 2:9–10 (LEB) — 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are his creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, so that we may walk in them.

which tells us our good works not faith are a result of our creation in Christ
 
@TomL



Thats the ramification when you say the seed of Abraham in Heb 2:16 is restricted to ethnic jews, its the church comprised of all ethnicities.
Sorry no as I never stated the Hebrew race is saved. You read that idea into my words as you read your theology into scripture.

Kindly quote what it is you are supposed to be responding to so it may be determined wether your comment actually address what was posted and actually provide a rebuttal

First you are reading your theology into the passage.

Rather an unlimited atonement is in view as the writer just stated

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

Second the text before us is not Gal 3:29 but


Hebrews 2:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Which is speaking of the incarnation

And it is flesh and blood humanity Christ took upon himself; in particular the humanity seen in the Jewish people


And as for seed of Abraham

2 Chron 20:7Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
Isa 41:8But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, The seed of Abraham my friend.
Jer 33:26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Rom 9:7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 11:1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 Cor 11:22Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
Heb 2:16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


It seems to me you never address the point raised that it is the incarnation which is in view that is Christ taking on the nature of man
 
@TomL



Thats true, but not something that is hid, and the Gospel is hid to them that are lost. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The word hid is in the perfect tense and so its a completed action in the past with results active in the present, its permanent. And the word means:

καλύπτω:

To cover, to hide, to veil, to conceal
Meaning: I veil, hide, conceal, envelop.

When its hid, its not revealed as stated here Matt 11:25

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
You ignored what was posted

Um that text does not state the lost person cannot believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Are you going to posit there was a defect in the work of God?

As shown faith precedes salvation

Acts 16:31 (NASB95) — 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

John 20:31 (NASB95) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

John 3:36 (NASB95) — 36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 3:14–16 (NASB95) — 14 “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

and

and if you read the context

2 Corinthians 4:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.

The god of this world (ὁ θεος του αἰωνος τουτου [ho theos tou aiōnos toutou]). “Age,” more exactly, as in 1 Cor. 1:20. Satan is “the god of this age,” a phrase nowhere else in the N. T., but Jesus uses the same idea in John 12:31; 14:30 and Paul in Eph. 2:2; 6:12 and John in 1 John 5:19. Satan claimed the rule over the world in the temptations with Jesus. Blinded (ἐτυφλωσεν [etuphlōsen]). First aorist active of τυφλοω [tuphloō], old verb to blind (τυφλος [tuphlos], blind). They refused to believe (ἀπιστων [apistōn]) and so Satan got the power to blind their thoughts. That happens with willful disbelievers.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), 2 Co 4:4.

Hath blinded the minds of them which believe not. Of all who discern no beauty in the gospel, and who reject it. It is implied here, (1.) That the minds of unbelievers are blinded; that they perceive no beauty in the gospel. This is often affirmed of those who reject the gospel, and who live in sin

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: II Corinthians & Galatians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 76.
 
Back
Top Bottom