brightfame52
Well-known member
Its in the bible you deny it
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Johann
Well-known member
Really?
Are you avoiding the effort to understand since you don’t even seem aware of what I’m asking?
J.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yeah really, you bought them up. What I suppose to do, drop everything and go study them for you ?
Johann
Well-known member
Whats the problem-why the reaction?
I'm going to use the ignore button more often.
J.
MTMattie
Active member
The judge doth accuses. But remember
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Then why you judging me ?
MTMattie
Active member
Σατανᾶς
Larry
Member
That's what I'm talking about.
Johann
Well-known member
You cannot address this can you
Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.
and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe
John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”
Well, civic, you are repeating your error of perverting a warning such that the warning is converted into a binding judgment. Your heart adulterates Hebrews 12:25's word "warns" into the word "condemns" as shown below, yet the Hebrews 12:25 passage warns people from discontinuing to be Christians which cannot happen because the Word of God says "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28); therefore, the Grace of God always succeeds!
Your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation adulterates the Holy Scripture as evidenced through your own writings recorded in your post to which God causes me to respond now:
| The Book of civic | The Book of Hebrews | |
| See to it that you do not resist the Grace of God who is speaking because you can cause the Grace of God to fail. For if those did not escape when they resisted the Grace of God who condemned them on earth, much less will we escape who resist the Grace of God from Him who condemns from heaven. (civic 12:25) | See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven. (Hebrews 12:25) |
A warning is not the same thing as an occurrence.
According to your preaching, man controls the Love of God, yet Apostolic testimony is "the Love of Christ controls us" Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14) - a blessed Apostolic testimony in the Holy Spirit.
Your testimony is man earns the unearned Love of God because man chooses the Love of God.
This post is an integral continuation with:
- post #5,018 - Evaluated Your Conclusion That God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
- post #5,019 - Your Adulteration of Matthew 22:3 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
- post #5,024 - Your Destruction of Jerusalem, Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
- post #5,026 - Hebrews 6:4-8 Exposes The Impossibility Of A Christian To Expose The Christ To Public Shame Despite Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
- post #5,031 - You Declare The Almighty God Is Miserably Weak Per Your Heart's Rendition Of Luke 19:41 For Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
- post #5,036 - You fallen away from God's Grace is not you fallen out of God's Grace in Galatians 5:4-7, so your self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is resistible and earnable fails to be your proof.
- post #5,045 - You believe Lord Jesus, who is Love, fails by your quoting of Hebrews 12:14-15 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
- post #5,078 - You believe Almighty God, who is Love, fails by your quoting of 2 Corinthians 6:1 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
- post #5,105 - Your perverted a warning into a binding judgment in Hebrews 10:29 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE SOVEREIGN KING JESUS CHRIST!!!
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MTMattie
Active member
Perhaps a spiritual inability to understand?
Johann
Well-known member
Brother, why are you so vehemently against free will or human volition? I fully agree that our salvation is entirely the work of God, so that no one may boast, as it is written: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). However, isn’t faith the “hand” by which we receive this gift of salvation?
Scripture teaches that God offers salvation freely, but He also calls individuals to respond to His offer. As Jesus said, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest” (Matthew 11:28). This invitation implies that individuals must respond willingly.
Likewise, the apostle Paul speaks of our role in salvation when he writes: “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved” (Romans 10:9-10). This shows that faith and confession are acts of human volition prompted by God’s grace.
Jesus Himself likened belief to receiving a gift: “Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God” (John 1:12). Faith is indeed the "hand" that receives God’s grace—a response enabled by His Spirit but carried out by the individual.
Please respond kindly @Kermos as I really want to know.
Johann.
civic
Well-known member
He is a fatalist like Calvin his teacher
Johann
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
I use it as a synonym for determinist/ calvinist.
Fatalism and determinism are related philosophical concepts, but they have distinct differences in their implications and interpretations.
- Determinism:Determinism is the philosophical idea that all events, including human actions and choices, are causally determined by prior events and the laws of nature. It suggests that the present state of the universe, along with the natural laws that govern it, necessarily leads to specific future events. In a deterministic worldview, the future is viewed as a logical consequence of the past and the laws of cause and effect. This concept applies to both natural events and human actions.
Difference: Determinism is a broader and more general concept, encompassing the idea that all events are causally determined. It doesn't necessarily imply a specific belief about fate or predestination. Determinism can be compatible with the idea of free will, as some philosophers propose "compatibilism," which suggests that free will can coexist with determinism if actions align with an individual's desires and motivations. - Fatalism:Fatalism is the belief that all events and outcomes are predetermined and inevitable, regardless of human actions or choices. In a fatalistic view, it is futile for individuals to resist or change the course of events since they are bound to unfold as preordained. Fatalism often implies the idea of an external force or destiny that guides events in an inexorable manner.
Difference: Fatalism is a specific subset of determinism, focusing on the inevitability of future events, typically without consideration of causality or the laws of nature. Fatalism tends to have a more fatalistic outlook, suggesting that events will unfold irrespective of human agency, choices, or actions. Unlike some interpretations of determinism, fatalism tends to reject the possibility of free will altogether.
Theological Determinism: This perspective holds that a divine entity or a higher power's omniscience and plan predetermine all events, including human actions.
Hard determinism is a philosophical position that asserts that free will is an illusion and that all events, including human actions and choices, are entirely determined by antecedent causes. In other words, under hard determinism, there is no room for genuine human agency or the ability to make choices that are independent of prior causes and conditions.
According to hard determinism, the state of the universe at any given moment, along with the laws of nature, logically and inevitably lead to specific outcomes in the future. This perspective denies the existence of any true alternatives and suggests that every action or decision made by an individual is the inevitable result of the sum total of their genetic makeup, past experiences, and external influences.
The proponents of hard determinism often draw on ideas from causal determinism, which posits that the world operates according to a chain of cause-and-effect relationships. They argue that even our thoughts and feelings are predetermined by physical processes in the brain and the external environment, leaving no room for genuine free will.
As a consequence of hard determinism, notions of moral responsibility and accountability become problematic. If individuals are not ultimately in control of their actions and choices, the traditional concepts of blame, punishment, and reward lose their grounding in the context of personal responsibility.
Critics of hard determinism argue that it negates the intuitive sense of agency and choice that humans experience in their everyday lives. They contend that certain complexities, such as the unpredictability of human behavior and the presence of genuine uncertainty in some systems (e.g., quantum mechanics), challenge the notion of a purely deterministic universe.
Overall, the debate between hard determinism and other philosophical perspectives on free will remains an ongoing and profound topic in philosophy and cognitive sciences, touching on fundamental questions about the nature of human existence and the limits of human autonomy.
conclusion : calvinism is determinism which is fatalism.
hope this helps !!!
Johann
Well-known member
He is aware I hold to freewill brother.I use it as a synonym for determinist/ calvinist.
J.
civic
Well-known member
same here only fatalists/determinists deny free will- they are a tiny subset/ minority group within christendom. it is not the " orthodox" view within Christianity.
MTMattie
Active member
Me TOO!!!
