But some how 24, if that's true, makes you the winner? So all I need is 25 and I win. Sound reasoning there.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Except all we have here is your imaginationBut some how 24, if that's true, makes you the winner? So all I need is 25 and I win. Sound reasoning there.
You imagine my point, then you imagine you have 25
Its all you have to offer as you address nothing.
I did not say I had 25. I said, according to your childish logic, all I would need is 25 and you lose. Remember. You brought up the number 24, not I. Why? We both know why.
I am an instrument of peace, created by God for the works which He prepared beforehand.
You disparage the Holy Spirit, again, for I never claimed to be God, and I attest that I am not God, but I am blessed by God with His wonderfully loving indwelling Holy Spirit.
You are confused because I don't use your terminology, there.
Nor do I use your terminology, there.
And your terminology, there, I do not use.
Read the post to which you responded, and you will find it absent of all your terminology; moreover, you plentifully find the loving sayings of the Christ of us Christians!
Interestingly, in your post, it's only your thoughts absent of the Word of God!
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
" (The Word of God, Matthew 7:13-14).
"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father except because of Me" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 14:6)
Behold, the antagonistic slur you directed at God's Holy Spirit for God has me proclaiming the Good Message of Christ according to Christ, so you believe that the Christ's "doctrine is blatantly harsh, and is no gospel at all".
Again, go back and read the plentifully loving sayings of the Christ of us Christians in the post to which you replied!
âThis is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sentâ (The Christ of us Christians, John 6:29).
I understand you according to your preaching, there. You do not believe Christ.
Again, read the post to which you replied, and you will find John 6:29"l!
My preciously loving God commands me "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (my Redeemer Emmanuel, Matthew 28:19-20).
Your thoughts oppose Lord Jesus Christ.
A word about your thoughts. It is written, "'My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).
A word about adding to the Word of God as you have done - you convey "This is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" instead of âThis is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sentâ (The Christ of us Christians, John 6:29). It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to the Word of God.
Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to the Word of God is that human lying.
Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is evil.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE FATHER OF LIGHTS!!!
Whatever that means. LOL Say it 24 times maybe it will make more sense.
MTMattie
Active member
I shall start a reply that will, of necessity, be finished later..... Sunday my mom fell and is currently in the hospital with a fractured femur located near a hip replacement. No surgery, but are going to treat with therapy. I shall reply partially until I need to go back to sit with her as she has dementia and the entire thing is not as easy as one might think. She is 90
About the Peshitta: This translation is believed to have taken place in roughly the first century AD.
Too many of us forget about a third language in which the writers penned Scripture: Aramaic.
For instance, we find portions of Ezra and Daniel containing Aramaic, the language of the common people. Back during the time of Jesus, the Jews would have spoken multiple languages from Hebrew, Aramaic, and the lingua franca at the time (most likely Greek).
Also, We know, from the language of the Aramaic used in these manuscripts, that certain dialects used in the Peshitta manuscript existed centuries after Jesusâ time. Therefore, scholars overwhelmingly believe the New Testament writers penned the latter half of the Bible in Greek.
They believe so.
But that does not necessarily mean the Peshitta to be wrong.... They did call
4And he arrested him and cast him into prison and delivered him unto sixteen Soldiers to guard him so that after Passover he would deliver him to the people of Judea,
Passover Passover and not Easter....
Now, what does this have to do with the title âPeshittaâ?
The Peshitta is a âcollection of Aramaic manuscripts of the Bible.â Many Syriac churches will use this version of the Bible as their primary text.
And now I must go but will carry on as soon as I can...
The Bondage Of A Man's Will
Free-willians, in a respect, are correct that "there's no difference between self will and free will", and that respect is that both self will and free will lead to hell.
Now, instead of listening to themselves lie with things like "Free will is all through the scriptures", they need to listen to Apostolic testimony as shown below.
Peter the Apostle wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will that brings such people under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:9-10).
Paul the Apostle wrote that after being saved, people have a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).
Here's Paul from the Bible, again. Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14 - and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.
Free-willians do not have a free will, as described by Paul.
Free-willians do have a self will, as described by Peter.
Free-willians gleefully separate themselves from God's will and the Christ of us Christians Who says ""you did not choose Me, but I chose you"" (John 15:16) and ""I chose you out of the world"" (John 15:19). We Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound enthusiastically in joy and love to God by God for God through God, as described by Paul.
The above mentioned Apostolic testimony verbatim:
- "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).
- "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
- "but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14).
By God's grace, for God's glory!
You proved you lacking linguistics, again, because you frequently flaunt your falsehood that Philemon 1:14 fosters free-will as a concrete state for man.
Instead of answering a post that was not addressed to you, try sticking with the posts God causes me to compose to you which show the Sovereignty of God (and, incidentally, your exaltation of man above the Most High God according to your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10)).
Letâs review.
If your theology were true, then you would have been able to refute the following, but you didn't, and you can't refute the Word of God.
âThe one practicing the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in Godâ (John 3:21)
You preach that "apart from Christ, I chose Christ", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and âyou did not choose Me, but I chose youâ (John 15:16) and âI chose you out of the worldâ (John 15:19, includes salvation), so you teach falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).
We Christians are in Christ exclusively because of the work of Christ, but you deny this fact (see 2 Peter 2:1 and John 3:3 and John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16 and John 15:19).
You are blind because you broke the labeled link between continuous precursor post (see the "continued from post #3,261" in the "Kermos said" quotation inside your post), and God causes me to build upon the labeled integrated posts right now!
Since Lord Jesus says "which the Son of Man will give to you" (John 6:27) as a requirement, then no one can work "for the food that endures to eternal life" unless such a one receives from God Himself "the food that endures to eternal life" (John 6:27), so this precious food is given by God to God's chosen persons.
Your writing of "Jesus told his hearers they had something to do You say there is nothing to do." regarding John 6:27 results in "the fact you make Christ a liar" when the Christ of us Christians says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) as well as this lovingly wonderful Word of God âhe who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in Godâ (John 3:21) as quoted to you in post #3,261, so the Word of God shows your deception about you driving God according to your choosing - even before you were born of the flesh.
That is not the only time your heart positions Christ as a liar, but you label Christ a deceiver as presented below based on your free-willian philosophy writings revealing your heart's gnostic (knowledge) human centered purported ability to perceive God before your eyes have been opened by God as per God in "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).
Your heart's treasure is that when Jesus Christ says God, He does not mean God, but, rather, He means man in at least one specific instance as we shall see below.
You preach your idiot Jesus who is an inferior orator; on the other hand, God causes me to proclaim Lord Jesus Who is the Master Orator with no equal.
You believe that your idiot Jesus is incapable of formulating a coherent sentence with the words that convey His intended meaning; on the other hand, I believe Jesus says what he means with precision, unambigatuity, and Truth (John 14:6).
You exalt your god Calvin above the One True God because you utilize your god Calvin's words "People who infer from this passage that faith is Godâs gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" as your authority to suppress, eliminate, and adulterate the meaning of the Word of God:
| The traditions of men | The Word of God | |
| This is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (TomL 6:29) | This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29) |
Your adulterations to the word of God extend even farther:
| The traditions of men | The Word of God | |
| I chose Jesus, but Jesus didn't choose me (TomL 15:16) | you did not choose Me, but I chose you (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) | |
| I chose exclusively you apostles and nobody else out of the world (TomL 15:19) | I chose you out of the world (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19) |
You have refused to present a public apology response for your application of the nauseous concept to the precious Holy Word of God!
The following Word of God is that which the both of you call nauseous! No Christian calls the Word of God nauseating.
The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces
- divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says âyou did not choose Me, but I chose youâ (John 15:16) and âI chose you out of the worldâ (John 15:19)
AND, Paul is in accord with Jesusâ words for he wrote to the Ephesians âBlessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in loveâ (Ephesians 1:3-4)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God - beneficiariesâ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek ÏÎŻÏÏÎčÏ pistis) and believe (Greek ÏÎčÏÏΔÏÏ pisteuĂł))
âThis is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sentâ (John 6:29)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesusâ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians âby grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workâ (Ephesians 2:8-10)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesusâ words for Peter declared âGod, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faithâ (Acts 15:8-9)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiariesâ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
âhe who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in Godâ (John 3:21)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesusâ words for he wrote to the Philippians âbeing filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of Godâ (Philippians 1:11)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiariesâ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as âTruly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, âYou must be born again.â The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spiritâ (John 3:5-8)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesusâ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens âBlessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the deadâ (1 Peter 1:3)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiariesâ repent by Godâs working, for the Christ of us Christians says
âI praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babesâ (Matthew 11:25)
AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesusâ words with thier saying, âWell then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to lifeâ (Acts 11:18)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward) - beneficiariesâ love by Godâs working, for the Christ of us Christians says
âA new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one anotherâ (John 13:34)
AND John is in accord with Jesusâ words for he wrote âBeloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows Godâ (1 John 4:7, see the phrase âlove is from Godâ meaning God is the source of true love)
AND John expands with his writing of âGod is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in himâ (1 John 4:16, see the phrase âone who abides in Loveâ is equivocated with âone who abidesâ âin Godâ which extends from Godâs exclusivity with âGod is Loveâ)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God
And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!
No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE REVEALER OF TRUTH, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
TibiasDad
Well-known member
I disagree with you, not the Godhead! You equating your words with the Holy Spiritâs is equating yourself with the Holy Spirit!
You donât have to use the term âReformedâ to argue from a Reformed pov. Itâs a rabbit trail!
More rabbit trails!
Nothing I have said is contrary to any of this.
Again, I only oppose your theology and arguments for it.
Doug
civic
Well-known member
Fallacy alert
there is no such thing in the Bible as the bondage of the will. Luther invented it.Next
Free will, likewise.Fallacy alert
Next
civic
Well-known member
Is it? Show us where it says God has endowed His creation with free will.Free will is in the Bible
Next fallacy rofl
Here comes the crickets
You did not address this
Free will
(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.
(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, but of free will.
(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, but by the free will:
(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me out of your own free will without feeling forced to do it.
(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but according to your own free will.
(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, but of your own free will.
(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.
(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity but of free will.
(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TLV) But I didnât want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldnât be by force but by free will.
(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion but of your own free will. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.
(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
(NASB95) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TEV) 14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I would like for you to do it of your own free will. So I will not do anything unless you agree.
(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
CT 14 but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, but of free will.
NENT 14 but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, but of free will.
SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, but according to free will.
(NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.
(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.
(RASV)but without your consent I would do nothing; that your goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(UASV)but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by necessity but of your own free will.
and you just repeated your same old refuted arguments
I am sorry to hear about your mother. May Lord Jesus help her!
There are two Testaments in the Peshitta:
- the Old Testament, which some people speculate existed originally in Old Syriac (Aramaic), and the Peshitta OT currently exists in Classical Syriac (Aramaic).
- the New Testament, which exists in Classical Syriac (Aramaic) and no evidence of the Peshitta NT exists in Old Syriac (Aramaic).
The significance of the Peshitta NT, of which you quoted Titus 2:11, is Classical Syriac (Aramaic) did not exist at the time Lord Jesus walked the Earth, according to historicans, in fact, Classical Syriac (Aramaic) was popular between the 5th and 8th centuries.
Since the Peshitta NT dialect fails to match the Aramaic inscriptions during the time Jesus walked the Earth, then historicans surmise the Peshitta NT dialect was not the language originally used for the NT, so Greek is considered the original language of the NT.
The evidence of Classical Syriac starts to appear around the turn of the 3rd century AD, and Classical Syriac came to dominate literature around the 5th century while the tell-tale inflective forms that Old Syriac language shared with Judean (Aramaic) disappeared without a later documented occurrence.
Essentially, the indications are that the Peshitta NT is a publication of the 4th century AD at the earliest.
Due to these circumstances, many people speculate that the Peshitta NT (Classical Syriac (Aramaic)) is a translation from Koine Greek, a popular language during the time of Jesus and the apostles walking on the Earth.
Additional reading:
- http://aramaicnt.org/articles/problems-with-peshitta-primacy/
- http://peshitta.org/
- https://www.christianity.com/wiki/bible/what-is-the-peshitta.html
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshitta
I want to keep our discussion's place in active sight, so the following is where we left off. I look forward to your response.
Fair enough. Good post
I am asking for clarification about Judas Iscariot from you, MTMattie, respecting Titus 2:11. You brought up what appears to be a translation from Koine Greek to Classical Syriac (Aramaic), that is, the Greek Titus 2:11 translated to the Peshitta Titus 2:11. The content of each indicates that the Peshitta is a faulty translation of Titus 2:11.
In your first post above in response to post #3,271, you elaborated "Judas did have God's saving grace revealed to him" regarding Judas Iscariot and Titus 2:11.
In your second post above to Presby02, you elaborated "I do not think it was revealed to Judas at all" regarding Judas Iscariot and Titus 2:11.
Since you believe that "Judas did have God's saving grace revealed to him" and you believe "I do not think it was revealed to Judas at all", then will you please clarify the contradiction and the purpose of your posts?
Letâs review the context under discussion.
If your theology were true, then you would have been able to refute the following, but you didn't, and you can't refute the Word of God.
âThe one practicing the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in Godâ (John 3:21)
You preach that "apart from Christ, I chose Christ", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and âyou did not choose Me, but I chose youâ (John 15:16) and âI chose you out of the worldâ (John 15:19, includes salvation), so you teach falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).
We Christians are in Christ exclusively because of the work of Christ, but you deny this fact (see 2 Peter 2:1 and John 3:3 and John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16 and John 15:19).
You are blind because you broke the labeled link between continuous precursor post (see the "continued from post #3,261" in the "Kermos said" quotation inside your post), and God causes me to build upon the labeled integrated posts right now!
Since Lord Jesus says "which the Son of Man will give to you" (John 6:27) as a requirement, then no one can work "for the food that endures to eternal life" unless such a one receives from God Himself "the food that endures to eternal life" (John 6:27), so this precious food is given by God to God's chosen persons.
Your writing of "Jesus told his hearers they had something to do You say there is nothing to do." regarding John 6:27 results in "the fact you make Christ a liar" when the Christ of us Christians says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) as well as this lovingly wonderful Word of God âhe who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in Godâ (John 3:21) as quoted to you in post #3,261, so the Word of God shows your deception about you driving God according to your choosing - even before you were born of the flesh.
That is not the only time your heart positions Christ as a liar, but you label Christ a deceiver as presented below based on your free-willian philosophy writings revealing your heart's gnostic (knowledge) human centered purported ability to perceive God before your eyes have been opened by God as per God in "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).
Your heart's treasure is that when Jesus Christ says God, He does not mean God, but, rather, He means man in at least one specific instance as we shall see below.
You preach your idiot Jesus who is an inferior orator; on the other hand, God causes me to proclaim Lord Jesus Who is the Master Orator with no equal.
You believe that your idiot Jesus is incapable of formulating a coherent sentence with the words that convey His intended meaning; on the other hand, I believe Jesus says what he means with precision, unambigatuity, and Truth (John 14:6).
You exalt your god Calvin above the One True God because you utilize your god Calvin's words "People who infer from this passage that faith is Godâs gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" as your authority to suppress, eliminate, and adulterate the meaning of the Word of God:
| The traditions of men | The Word of God | |
| This is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (TomL 6:29) | This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29) |
Your adulterations to the word of God extend even farther:
| The traditions of men | The Word of God | |
| I chose Jesus, but Jesus didn't choose me (TomL 15:16) | you did not choose Me, but I chose you (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) | |
| I chose exclusively you apostles and nobody else out of the world (TomL 15:19) | I chose you out of the world (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19) |
You have refused to present a public apology response for your application of the nauseous concept to the precious Holy Word of God!
The following Word of God is that which the both of you call nauseous! No Christian calls the Word of God nauseating.
The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces
- divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says âyou did not choose Me, but I chose youâ (John 15:16) and âI chose you out of the worldâ (John 15:19)
AND, Paul is in accord with Jesusâ words for he wrote to the Ephesians âBlessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in loveâ (Ephesians 1:3-4)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God - beneficiariesâ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek ÏÎŻÏÏÎčÏ pistis) and believe (Greek ÏÎčÏÏΔÏÏ pisteuĂł))
âThis is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sentâ (John 6:29)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesusâ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians âby grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workâ (Ephesians 2:8-10)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesusâ words for Peter declared âGod, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faithâ (Acts 15:8-9)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiariesâ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
âhe who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in Godâ (John 3:21)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesusâ words for he wrote to the Philippians âbeing filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of Godâ (Philippians 1:11)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiariesâ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as âTruly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, âYou must be born again.â The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spiritâ (John 3:5-8)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesusâ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens âBlessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the deadâ (1 Peter 1:3)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiariesâ repent by Godâs working, for the Christ of us Christians says
âI praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babesâ (Matthew 11:25)
AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesusâ words with thier saying, âWell then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to lifeâ (Acts 11:18)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward) - beneficiariesâ love by Godâs working, for the Christ of us Christians says
âA new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one anotherâ (John 13:34)
AND John is in accord with Jesusâ words for he wrote âBeloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows Godâ (1 John 4:7, see the phrase âlove is from Godâ meaning God is the source of true love)
AND John expands with his writing of âGod is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in himâ (1 John 4:16, see the phrase âone who abides in Loveâ is equivocated with âone who abidesâ âin Godâ which extends from Godâs exclusivity with âGod is Loveâ)
SO, clearly, Jesusâ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God
And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!
No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE REVEALER OF TRUTH, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
You are all over the place, but you have no sufficient answer to
Sorry but you simply repeat falsehoods
Where have you addressed this
Sorry that is a total non sequitur
You quote john 15:5
John 15 (KJV 1900) â 1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
But that concerns the bearing of fruit in those who already in him
so context does not support you
further you contradict the very words of Christ
John 6:27 (KJV 1900) â 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
and what Christ gives is eternal life not the work he tells them to do.
So you twist that verse as well
as well as deny other scripture
Joshua 24:15â31 (NASB 2020) â 15 But if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served, which were beyond the Euphrates River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.â 16 The people answered and said, âFar be it from us that we would abandon the LORD to serve other gods; 17 for the LORD our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slaves, and did these great signs in our sight and watched over us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 The LORD drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God.â 19 Then Joshua said to the people, âYou will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your wrongdoing or your sins. 20 If you abandon the LORD and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and destroy you after He has done good to you.â 21 And the people said to Joshua, âNo, but we will serve the LORD.â 22 So Joshua said to the people, âYou are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him.â And they said, âWe are witnesses.â 23 âNow then, do away with the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to the LORD, the God of Israel.â 24 And the people said to Joshua, âWe will serve the LORD our God and obey His voice.â 25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and made for them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem. 26 And Joshua wrote these words in the Book of the Law of God; and he took a large stone and set it up there under the oak that was by the sanctuary of the LORD. 27 Then Joshua said to all the people, âBehold, this stone shall be a witness against us, because it has heard all the words of the LORD which He spoke to us; so it shall be a witness against you, so that you do not deny your God.â 28 Then Joshua dismissed the people, each to his inheritance. 29 Now it came about after these things that Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died, being 110 years old. 30 And they buried him in the territory of his inheritance, in Timnath-serah, which is in the hill country of Ephraim, on the north of Mount Gaash. 31 Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua and all the days of the elders who survived Joshua, and had known every deed of the LORD which He had done for Israel.
Why does your theology cause you to deny the word of God and simply repeat falsehoods, calling Christ a liar
Projection
civic
Well-known member
Jesus refutes your false teaching about Judas in Matthew 10 identifying him as one of the 12 who performed miracles through the Holy Spirit and sent him out as a sheep among wolves.
Matthew 10
Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: âDo not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: âThe kingdom of heaven has come near.â 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a]drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
9 âDo not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your beltsâ 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
16 âI am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.
Judas preached the gospel and healed many
Jesus called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to healâ (Luke 9:1-2).
Simply truth
He just ignores multiple verses where only the 12 are with Jesus so he can assume his view
