TibiasDad
Well-known member
Not really; it is about God’s love, which is a relational dynamic, and that is an interpersonal thing. Thus, people are in mind, not nature or the physical realm.
Doug
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Doug
civic
Well-known member
No, I wouldn't. The Bible does not define the word "world". It seems your question begging the definition most advantageous to your presuppositions.
So God cannot love His creation? He so loves the world He saves believing ones? Why not?
TibiasDad
Well-known member
The context is about people being born again. There is no focus on the physical universe.
Doug
So God so loved His creation that He will save those who are born again. The world, creation is certainly not excluded as a possible understanding.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
We do not preach that the creation is in need of salvation and needs to be forgiven of its sin. It is mankind who needs salvation and mankind whose sins need to be forgiven. Thus John’s recapitulation of the thought in 1 John 2:1-2; not our ( human beings who have believed) sins only, but for the sins (of people) of the whole world.
Doug
civic
Well-known member
It’s all inclusive ie everyone , all mankind the entire human race etc….
All without exception then.
civic
Well-known member
yep
So those who never hear the gospel as well?
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Universalism
civic
Well-known member
Nope provisional atonement- faith is the condition, prerequisite to have one’s sins forgiven and applied to each individual.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Hello TibiasDad,
Your first paragraph's items a, b, and c do not change the outcome that the word "world" in John 3:16 which includes exclusively the people chosen by God as His loved ones per the Word of God “The one practicing the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21).
When you wrote "then all would be saved", then you broke the 2nd to closing paragraph that God had me post to you.
False prophets preach "apart from Christ, I chose Christ", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation), so you teach falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).
We Christians are in Christ exclusively because of the work of Christ, but you deny this fact (see 2 Peter 2:1 and John 3:3 and John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16 and John 15:19).
The Word "World" in The Book of the First Letter of John (1 John 2:2, 1 John 5:19)
The Apostle John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world" (1 John 2:2).
The Apostle John also wrote "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).
Notice "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author.
Since free-willians say "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 means every person everywhere can choose Jesus unto salvation, then such persons interpretation of "the whole world" has such free-will supporting persons themselves as part of "the whole world" lying in the evil one per 1 John 5:19.
The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one.
This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include the children of God for we are Christians.
This means that "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include every person everywhere because Christians are not included.
This means that free-willians have not overcome the evil one since such free-willians include themselves in "the whole world" thus including themselves as lying in the evil one.
The "lies" or "lying" in the evil one is similar to "abides" or "abiding" in the evil one, so there is a tight relationship between such free-willians and the evil one.
The English word "lies" in 1 John 2:2 derives from the Greek word "κεῖται" (Strong's 2749 - keimai - to be laid, lie) which specifically means "lay".
This means that free-willians are not Christians, and it is the free-willians definition of "world" that effectually makes such free-willians Non-Christians, that is, unbelievers.
This also means the word "world" does not have to mean every person everywhere when the word "world" is used in the Bible.
These two different meanings for the word "world", "the whole world", occur in one book of the New Testament.
It is time to return to 1 John 2:2.
- John was writing to God's own people in the Book of the First Letter of John (1 John), so the context is believers, John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 2:2) - that "our" and the upcoming "ours" are believers, so continuing on with that which John wrote "and not for ours only, but also for the whole world".
- A believer reading 1 John 2:2 knows that God converted the believer from "the whole world" into the "our" of God's assembly of believers (Matthew 18:3), yet an unbeliever who reads 1 John 2:2 considers Jesus' sacrifice foolishness (1 Corinthians 2:14); therefore, the phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 is such that "the whole world" refers exclusively to the chosen persons of God (John 15:16, John 15:19) who God is yet to work faith/belief in the Son of God whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
- The phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 refers only to the chosen persons of God (John 15:16, John 15:19, includes salvation) who are yet to be imparted the work of God which is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29); otherwise, the phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 results in everyone everywhere being saved from the wrath of God, a.k.a. universalism, yet universalism is deception because the Word of God says ""Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 7:21) thus Jesus indicates that some people do not enter heaven which means those people go to hell (Matthew 25:41).
- The phrase "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 refers only persons yet to become part of Israel, the true Israel (Romans 9:6) and persons grafted into Israel (Romans 11:11-36), for the Word of God says "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24).
In 1 John 2:2, the word "world" does not include person that currently have been imparted the work of God, faith/belief, in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29) because John led with "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only", so John uses "our" for exclusively current believers and John uses "world" for exclusively future believers.
The word "world" in 1 John 2:2 is the population of persons who are yet to be imparted the work of God that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
The word "world" in 1 John 5:19 is the population of persons who have NOT been imparted the work of God that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29), and this population of persons includes persons that will not be imparted faith/belief before such persons die.
Behold, the two different populations of persons represented by "world" in the Book of the First Letter of John (1 John).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE MY ADVOCATE, JESUS CHRIST!!!
Where is it written the atonement is provisional? It's efficacy is dependent on the will of man.
civic
Well-known member
Jesus taught provisional atonement.
John 3:14-18
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Above we see those who looked upon the brass serpent in the wilderness were healed/ saved. Moses provided a way for those bit by the poisonous snakes to be healed and not die by looking upon the brass serpent. Jesus compares Himself in the same way to be saved by His provision for their sins through His atonement to be received by faith. In both cases faith saved them in the OT wilderness as is the case with Jesus in the NT.
John 3:14-15
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him
Numbers 21:8-9
The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.
Multiple Choice Question below :
Numbers 21:9: So Moses made a bronze serpent and put it on the flag pole; and it came about, that if a serpent bit _________, and he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.
1. Everyone
2. An Elect Person
3. A Lucky Lottery Winner
Biblical Answer !
John Chapter 3:14-15
And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him.
hope this helps !
Not one of those proof texts mentions the atonement or anything being "provisional".
