brightfame52
Well-known member
Yep and Jesus more than likely indicated here that believing in Him is the Work of God Jn 6:29
“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
But it is what i claimed
Unless you are going to say White believes no preparation should be done any complaint about preparation is a complaint it is too much
And if you want to talk about honersty issues you have no further to go than your denial of the meaning of fatalism and definitiuons provided
Your theology
Faith: Is it a gift infused, a gift received, or a decision to believe?
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJ)
There are several views of the role of faith in Ephesians Chapter 2 verses 8-9. It might be helpful to examine briefly these views. These two verses are acknowledged to be scripture by those who accept the New Testament. The different concepts of the role of faith come from trying to understand what these two verses mean. There are, at least, three basic views regarding the role of faith in these two verses.
In brief, the views are as follows.
1. Faith as an infused gift of God. Faith is believed to be infused into the person who is dead-like. While dead, they become gifted with saving faith. In this sense, faith is an infused gift from God. This view holds that no one is saved unless God imparted the gift of faith into them.
2. Faith as a received gift of God. The gift of faith is welcomed and received by a lost sinner who feels his or her deep need of salvation. With this gift of faith, he or she believes the gospel. This view emphasizes the acceptance of the "gift" of faith by the sinner. The sinner willingly and knowingly receives the gift of faith and has believing faith. In this sense, the sinner willingly, knowingly, and actively receives the gift of faith.
3. Faith as a personal decision to believe the gospel. This view holds that the gift of God does not refer to the word, faith; rather it refers to the whole plan of salvation. This view teaches that the whole "by grace you are saved through faith" plan of salvation is the gift of God. For Israel in the Old Testament, the plan was "by the law you are blessed through obedience." The OT involved the "keeping the law." The New Testament involves "faith in Christ." The OT was a system of "works." The NT is based upon "grace."
1. Infused Faith.
Probably the most popular view is that faith is infused into a sinner. Since the human population is held to be incapable of believing the gospel message, it is necessary for God to impart living faith into the dead and unresponsive sinner. After the Holy Spirit has imparted faith into the sinner, the person is able to accept the gospel of salvation.
your view
This view emphasizes the sovereignty of God in saving souls. Whoever God sovereignly chooses to impart life and faith, comes to faith.
2. Faith is a gift.
It is easy to see why this view would be thought to be the case. A straight forward reading of the passage would lead one to believe that faith was itself the gift. Granting that faith is a gift, a gift still has to be received by the one to whom it is offered. So, even this second view requires acceptance of the gift and belief in the Savior by the lost sinner. In effect, it is similar to the third view. It holds that the sinner has some form of real faith in the value of the offer of the gospel.
3. The gift is not faith but the entire plan of salvation.
To understand this view, one needs to understand that some languages have nouns with gender. For example, nouns in Spanish have masculine, feminine or neuter genders. The words, faith and grace are both feminine in Greek while the word, "that" is neuter. So, the sentence reads as follows.
"For by grace (feminine) you have been saved through faith (feminine), and that (neuter).
Some Greek scholars note that "that (neuter)" must refer to the whole phrase. They argue that if "that (neuter)" referred to "faith (feminine)," the word "that" should be feminine and not neuter.
"that" neuter in Greek is "touto, τοῦτο."
"that" feminine in Greek is "taute, ταύτῃ."
Consequently, the phrase may be read as follows.
("For by grace are you saved through faith") that ... is the gift of God. It is not the OT system of laws. It is not ours personal merit or our good deeds. The gift of God is the plan of salvation that is offered in free grace to all sinners who come in faith to the Savior.
This view thinks that God's sovereignty is shown in the words "by grace" and that human responsibility is shown in the words "through faith." God offers salvation as a gift freely to all. There is just one condition for the gift of salvation. The gift of salvation must be accepted in faith. The free offer of salvation is to all races, nations, tribes, peoples, and languages. It is for wicked sinners, polite sinners, socialites, religious devotees, stoned drug addicts, and social outcasts.
However, there is the one condition on the part of the sinner, "faith." The sinner must "believe" the gospel of the grace of God. This faith is apart from works. It is a non-meritorious faith, but it is an absolutely necessity. Salvation is offered freely, but the sinner must be received the offer by faith.
This last view holds that God works through the Holy Spirit who convicts, compels, and convinces the sinner of his or her need of salvation. However, the Holy Spirit does not force a sinner to accept the gracious offer of salvation. The sinner may choose to resist the Holy Spirit's gracious invitation. Furthermore, this view holds that the sinner must really believe the gospel. God cannot believe for us. We must believe, or we will be eternally damned. In this view, human beings have the responsibility (responsibility, i.e., the ability to respond) to accept the gospel message.
This view believes that God's sovereignty and human responsibility meet in the phrase "for by grace are you saved through faith." Since there is free grace on God's part, and, if there is real faith on the sinner's part, eternal salvation will be the outcome for the sinner.
Have you yourself accepted God's gracious offer of salvation?
Faith: Is it a gift infused, a gift received, or the decision to believe? | Christian Treasury
No God does not give faith he gives the word by which faith comes
No. Yous said White said Barber was "to prepared". When asked for a quote you ran like a little girl. And now the story changes again. HONESTY ISSUES.
Provided by you. Skepticism is in orrder when its you thats for sure. You deny the obvious differences between the two.
Determinism and fatalism are not synonymous terms.
Nope. Problem with the truth again. I have never claimed it's infused.
And now it's copy and paste time. Things you have no idea what it's saying. LOL
And that is what transpired
You however are merely looking for words rather the reality of the situation
Unless you are going to say White believes no preparation should be done any complaint about preparation is a complaint it is too much
and again the definition you deny
fa·tal·ism
[ˈfādlˌizəm]
noun
- the belief that all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable:
"fatalism can breed indifference to the human costs of war"
Data from Oxford Languages
'
'
you believe he gives i.e. transfers it into man that is infuse
I'm looking for you to back up your dumb claim. Let's try again. Tom claimed White said Barber was "to prepared". QUOTE HIM
No it isn't. That's your faulty reasoning skills. Among other things
TibiasDad
Well-known member
I didn’t say the will of man, I said the belief of man. The will of man implies that we can obligate God to act because we will him to do so at our behest. Belief is the surrender of our will to his.
There is no difference in your position than mine, for we both believe that man’s will is involved; you just believe that God has to regenerate us in order for us to will to believe.
Doug
I just did
I am dealing with reality you are merely looking for framed words
And that is what transpired
You however are merely looking for words rather the reality of the situation
Unless you are going to say White believes no preparation should be done any complaint about preparation is a complaint it is too much
and again the definition you deny
fa·tal·ism
[ˈfādlˌizəm]
noun
- the belief that all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable:
"fatalism can breed indifference to the human costs of war"
Data from Oxford Languages
and you still have not dealt with the definition which refutes your claim
sorry the article showed you are in error
Faith: Is it a gift infused, a gift received, or a decision to believe?
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJ)
There are several views of the role of faith in Ephesians Chapter 2 verses 8-9. It might be helpful to examine briefly these views. These two verses are acknowledged to be scripture by those who accept the New Testament. The different concepts of the role of faith come from trying to understand what these two verses mean. There are, at least, three basic views regarding the role of faith in these two verses.
In brief, the views are as follows.
1. Faith as an infused gift of God. Faith is believed to be infused into the person who is dead-like. While dead, they become gifted with saving faith. In this sense, faith is an infused gift from God. This view holds that no one is saved unless God imparted the gift of faith into them.
2. Faith as a received gift of God. The gift of faith is welcomed and received by a lost sinner who feels his or her deep need of salvation. With this gift of faith, he or she believes the gospel. This view emphasizes the acceptance of the "gift" of faith by the sinner. The sinner willingly and knowingly receives the gift of faith and has believing faith. In this sense, the sinner willingly, knowingly, and actively receives the gift of faith.
3. Faith as a personal decision to believe the gospel. This view holds that the gift of God does not refer to the word, faith; rather it refers to the whole plan of salvation. This view teaches that the whole "by grace you are saved through faith" plan of salvation is the gift of God. For Israel in the Old Testament, the plan was "by the law you are blessed through obedience." The OT involved the "keeping the law." The New Testament involves "faith in Christ." The OT was a system of "works." The NT is based upon "grace."
1. Infused Faith.
Probably the most popular view is that faith is infused into a sinner. Since the human population is held to be incapable of believing the gospel message, it is necessary for God to impart living faith into the dead and unresponsive sinner. After the Holy Spirit has imparted faith into the sinner, the person is able to accept the gospel of salvation.
This view emphasizes the sovereignty of God in saving souls. Whoever God sovereignly chooses to impart life and faith, comes to faith.
2. Faith is a gift.
It is easy to see why this view would be thought to be the case. A straight forward reading of the passage would lead one to believe that faith was itself the gift. Granting that faith is a gift, a gift still has to be received by the one to whom it is offered. So, even this second view requires acceptance of the gift and belief in the Savior by the lost sinner. In effect, it is similar to the third view. It holds that the sinner has some form of real faith in the value of the offer of the gospel.
3. The gift is not faith but the entire plan of salvation.
To understand this view, one needs to understand that some languages have nouns with gender. For example, nouns in Spanish have masculine, feminine or neuter genders. The words, faith and grace are both feminine in Greek while the word, "that" is neuter. So, the sentence reads as follows.
"For by grace (feminine) you have been saved through faith (feminine), and that (neuter).
Some Greek scholars note that "that (neuter)" must refer to the whole phrase. They argue that if "that (neuter)" referred to "faith (feminine)," the word "that" should be feminine and not neuter.
"that" neuter in Greek is "touto, τοῦτο."
"that" feminine in Greek is "taute, ταύτῃ."
Consequently, the phrase may be read as follows.
("For by grace are you saved through faith") that ... is the gift of God. It is not the OT system of laws. It is not ours personal merit or our good deeds. The gift of God is the plan of salvation that is offered in free grace to all sinners who come in faith to the Savior.
This view thinks that God's sovereignty is shown in the words "by grace" and that human responsibility is shown in the words "through faith." God offers salvation as a gift freely to all. There is just one condition for the gift of salvation. The gift of salvation must be accepted in faith. The free offer of salvation is to all races, nations, tribes, peoples, and languages. It is for wicked sinners, polite sinners, socialites, religious devotees, stoned drug addicts, and social outcasts.
However, there is the one condition on the part of the sinner, "faith." The sinner must "believe" the gospel of the grace of God. This faith is apart from works. It is a non-meritorious faith, but it is an absolutely necessity. Salvation is offered freely, but the sinner must be received the offer by faith.
This last view holds that God works through the Holy Spirit who convicts, compels, and convinces the sinner of his or her need of salvation. However, the Holy Spirit does not force a sinner to accept the gracious offer of salvation. The sinner may choose to resist the Holy Spirit's gracious invitation. Furthermore, this view holds that the sinner must really believe the gospel. God cannot believe for us. We must believe, or we will be eternally damned. In this view, human beings have the responsibility (responsibility, i.e., the ability to respond) to accept the gospel message.
This view believes that God's sovereignty and human responsibility meet in the phrase "for by grace are you saved through faith." Since there is free grace on God's part, and, if there is real faith on the sinner's part, eternal salvation will be the outcome for the sinner.
Have you yourself accepted God's gracious offer of salvation?
Faith: Is it a gift infused, a gift received, or the decision to believe? | Christian Treasury
No, I'm looking for you to back up what you claimed or retract it. You won't
You prefer dishonesty and saving face. You misspoke or lied. Which is it?
Again I just did
I just did
I am dealing with reality you are merely looking for framed words
And that is what transpired
You however are merely looking for words rather the reality of the situation
Unless you are going to say White believes no preparation should be done any complaint about preparation is a complaint it is too much
and again the definition you deny
fa·tal·ism
[ˈfādlˌizəm]
noun
- the belief that all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable:
"fatalism can breed indifference to the human costs of war"
Data from Oxford Languages
and you still have not dealt with the definition which refutes your claim
Belief does not involve your will Doug? Interesting
Sure do otherwise "no one seeks after God".
Um
2 Chronicles 11:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.
2 Chronicles 19:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God.
2 Chronicles 20:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.
2 Chronicles 20:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And Judah gathered themselves together, to ask help of the LORD: even out of all the cities of Judah they came to seek the LORD.
2 Chronicles 34:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.
Ezra 6:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,
Naritives not didactic statements. Not to mention Doug said it, I did not
nevertheless Facts not falsehoods
2 Chronicles 11:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.
2 Chronicles 19:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God.
2 Chronicles 20:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.
2 Chronicles 20:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And Judah gathered themselves together, to ask help of the LORD: even out of all the cities of Judah they came to seek the LORD.
2 Chronicles 34:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.
Ezra 6:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat
Nevertheless, narratives not didactic statements.
