An Article on free will

[brightfame52]

It's not what I say that's important, but what the Bible teaches. The scriptures, you know the ones you misinterpreted. Trying to infer that the world means only the elect. Who would fall for that? No matter how hard you try to defend Calvinism anyone that knows the truth is not going to believe it.

The bible teaches that both those scriptures are about the elect.

 

[brightfame52]

(Rev 22:17) And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let the one hearing say, Come! And let the one who is thirsty come. And he willing, let him take of the Water of Life freely.

Notice the word “willingly” in Rev 22:17. That is what we’re capable of doing. We are volitional beings that can exercise the ability to “come” to the Spirit and the bride. It would be idiotic to ask a human to “come” if he is a non-volitional being. So how do we “come” to the Spirit? Do we do that autonomously? Of course not. It is because God wills that all men be saved (1 Tim 2:4) that we are given that ability. What exactly is that ability that God grants us? It is the Word of God and our God-given hearing of the Word of God (Rom 10:17) that gives us that ability. Take note that nowhere does Rom 10 even imply that regeneration is needed for us to us to hear the Word of God. Regeneration happens after Belief in Christ.

So where do Calvinists go terribly wrong in understanding this? It’s because they believe that human will and all its manifestations is purely a part of our nature and not our personhood. Granted, our human will is an attribute of our human nature, just as seeing is, but the manner of willing does not depend on nature but on our personhood (our judgment), just as one’s seeing does, whether well or poorly. For everyone does not will in the same way, nor do they all see in the same way.

In other words, everyone possesses an inate human will that's part of your God-given nature. What you do with it willingly is based on your personality and personal choice.

Furthermore, it is not nature that sins, it is us as a person who sins. God did not create a sinful nature. He is not a pagan god that creates sinful things. Our human nature came straight from God. God does not produce sinful anything, let alone a sin nature. Only pagan gods produce sinful things. It is us, as persons, who sin and degrade ourselves. Granted, our bodies do decay and die but that is a consequence of Adam's sin and not because God is in the business of creating sinful nature.

If human nature is sinful then what does that make Jesus who took up the very same human nature we all have? Newsflash! It's not human nature that sins. People sin.

This is made evident during our sanctification. When a person receives a “new” nature, he as a person does not become an entirely new volitional agent. Rather, he begins to operate in accordance with either competing natures. Indwelling sin continues to assert influence, but that influence diminishes as the believer aligns himself more in step with his new nature and the indwelling Spirit.

That call is for the Spiritual thirsty, not the dead in sin

 

[Aeliana]

Yes it is, its just a scoffing to call it calvinism

Seriously, That's the best you got in your defensive Calvinism? Your light is getting dimmer. I read on here today somewhere that happens when you plug into the dead socket of Calvinism. Be careful you don't short circuit.

 

[TomL]

Man is dead to God before regeneration. His will isnt free neither, its dead in sin and under sins dominion. And as I have told you before many times, those references in John refer to the Sheep the regenerate Sheep at that. Life is specifically for them Jn 10:10-11

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[Sheep] might have life, and that they[Sheep] might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep

and by believing he can be given life

As always you ignore scripture showing how man is made alive

Faith precedes life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

it seems you want to ignore this

 

[TomL]

Sure its a scripture, and it refers only to the Loved Elect World, the Jacobs Rom 9:11-13

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Those who are believing in Jn 3:16 are the Called according to the purpose of election.

Nothing there mentions unconditional election to salvation

The birthright was given to Jacob rather than Esau

 

[synergy]

That call is for the Spiritual thirsty, not the dead in sin

Are you seriously saying that the Word of God is powerless in all situations that we find ourselves in?!?

Stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[Aeliana]

That call is for the Spiritual thirsty, not the dead in sin

That couldn't be a calvinist because they've never been dead and since they were always the elect, the elite. Oh the hypocrisy of it all.

Non calvinist are “Dead in Sin”​

Here are some quotes from Calvinists showing how they understand and explain the “dead in sin” imagery in Scripture. by Jeremy Myers

A dead man cannot exercise faith in Jesus Christ (Gordon H. Clark, The Biblical Doctrine of Man, 102)
A dead man is utterly incapable of willing anything (Pink, Sovereignty of God, 141).
A dead man cannot cooperate with an offer of healing (John H. Gerstner, A Predestination Primer, 18).
The corpse does not restore life to itself, after life is restored it becomes a living agent (Robert Dabney, The Five Points of Calvinism, 35).
The Calvinist holds to the plain teaching of Scripture and says: “No; he is dead. He cannot even open his mouth. Nor does he have any desire to call a doctor to help him. He is dead” … The Calvinist … would compare man to one who jumps off the top of the Empire State Building and is spattered over the sidewalk. Even if there were anything left of him when he landed, he could not know that he needed help, let alone cry out for it. That man is dead—lifeless—and cannot even desire to be made whole … And that is the picture of the sinner. He is dead in his sins and trespasses (Eph. 2:1, 5). He does not want to be made whole, let alone even know that he should be made whole. He is dead. When Christ called to Lazarus to come out of the grave, Lazarus had no life in him so that he could hear, sit up, and emerge. There was not a flicker of life in him. If he was to be able to hear Jesus calling him and to go to Him, then Jesus would have to make him alive. Jesus did resurrect him and then Lazarus could respond (Palmer, The Five Points of Calvinism, 17-18).
Could the Word of God show more plainly than it does that the depravity is total? And that our inability to desire or procure salvation is also total? The picture is one of death—spiritual death. We are like Lazarus in his tomb; we are bound hand and foot; corruption has taken hold upon us. Just as there was no glimmer of life in the dead body of Lazarus, so there is no “inner receptive spark” in our hearts. But the Lord performs the miracle—both with the physically dead, and the spiritually dead; for “you hath he quickened—made alive—who were dead in trespasses and sins.” Salvation, by its very nature, must be “of the Lord” (WJ Seaton, Five Points of Calvinism).
[A sinner] has all the passive properties belonging to a corpse… (Boice & Ryken, Doctrines of Grace, 74).
The natural man is enslaved to sin; he is a child of Satan, rebellious toward God, blind to truth, corrupt, unable to save himself or to prepare himself for salvation. In short, the unregenerate man is dead in sin, and his will is enslaved to his evil nature (Steele & Thomas, Five Points of Calvinism, 19).

 

[Ahar]

Are you seriously saying that the Word of God is powerless in all situations that we find ourselves in?!?

Stop embarrassing yourself.

When trying to prove ourselves right when we are traveling under a deception we sometimes don't know when to quit. But I have to hand it to
Brightfame, he's like a dog with a bone.

​

 

[synergy]

When trying to prove ourselves right when we are traveling under a deception we sometimes don't know when to quit. But I have to hand it to
Brightfame, he's like a dog with a bone.

​

We'll see if @brightfame52 is willing to deny the power of the Word of God as a sacrificial appeasement on the alter of his calvinist god.

 

[brightfame52]

Mans will is never free from Gods Sovereign Decree, for instance, Could Pharoah had obeyed God and let His People go after God had willed for him to not let them go ? I say he could not have obeyed, for God had hardened his heart not to let Israel go.

 

[brightfame52]

and by believing he can be given life

As always you ignore scripture showing how man is made alive

Faith precedes life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

it seems you want to ignore this

Man is dead to God before regeneration. His will isnt free neither, its dead in sin and under sins dominion. And as I have told you before many times, those references in John refer to the Sheep the regenerate Sheep at that. Life is specifically for them Jn 10:10-11

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[Sheep] might have life, and that they[Sheep] might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep

And not one scripture says Faith precedes life

 

[brightfame52]

and by believing he can be given life

As always you ignore scripture showing how man is made alive

Faith precedes life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

it seems you want to ignore this

Man is dead to God before regeneration. His will isnt free neither, its dead in sin and under sins dominion. And as I have told you before many times, those references in John refer to the Sheep the regenerate Sheep at that. Life is specifically for them Jn 10:10-11

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[Sheep] might have life, and that they[Sheep] might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep

Believing demonstrates life has been given

 

[brightfame52]

Are you seriously saying that the Word of God is powerless in all situations that we find ourselves in?!?

Stop embarrassing yourself.

Those dead in sin, dont spiritually thirst. The call is to the spiritually thirsty, or do you think its regular natural water thirst ?

 

[brightfame52]

That couldn't be a calvinist because they've never been dead and since they were always the elect, the elite. Oh the hypocrisy of it all.

Non calvinist are “Dead in Sin”​

Here are some quotes from Calvinists showing how they understand and explain the “dead in sin” imagery in Scripture. by Jeremy Myers

Not only is it to the spiritual thirsty, its to them who are spiritually alive and have spiritual ears to hear. That call has nothing to do with the spiritually dead.

 

[Aeliana]

Not only is it to the spiritual thirsty, its to them who are spiritually alive and have spiritual ears to hear. That call has nothing to do with the spiritually dead.

I see so the spiritually alive are the elect, they get a pass. The spiritually dead are the non-elect. And the non-elect according to Calvinism can't obey what the Bible clearly teaches and come to Jesus for salvation. Can't you see the hypocrisy in that?

 

[civic]

I see so the spiritually alive are the elect, they get a pass. The spiritually dead are the non-elect. And the non-elect according to Calvinism can't obey what the Bible clearly teaches and come to Jesus for salvation. Can't you see the hypocrisy in that?

It’s clear to those who have eyes to see, ears to hear and a mind to discern and understand and a heart to believe.

 

[brightfame52]

I see so the spiritually alive are the elect, they get a pass. The spiritually dead are the non-elect. And the non-elect according to Calvinism can't obey what the Bible clearly teaches and come to Jesus for salvation. Can't you see the hypocrisy in that?

The Call is for the thirsty, thats Spiritual thirst, the spiritual dead dont thirst for God. Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[synergy]

Those dead in sin, dont spiritually thirst. The call is to the spiritually thirsty, or do you think its regular natural water thirst ?

The Word of God can and does reach those who have not been regenerated yet. To say otherwise is to deny the power of the Word of God.

 

[Aeliana]

The Call is for the thirsty, thats Spiritual thirst, the spiritual dead dont thirst for God. Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

The call is the gospel.

Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. Matthew 11:29

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls, 46 who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it. Matthew 13:45-46

Paul In Romans 3:11 is citing Psalm 14 to back up his statement that all people, both Jews and Gentiles, are "under sin." The previous verse is one of the most-often quoted in the Bible, which states clearly that no person—not even one—is righteous before God on their own merits. That verse began a quote that continues here. Paul's version here shortens what David wrote in Psalm 14:2: "The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God."

The point of David's original statement was that God did not declare all of humanity guilty of sin after a quick glance. God was not merely noticing the worst examples of humanity. He symbolically "searched" to see if anyone understood God or looked for Him. Nobody did. This is a crucial truth, one fundamental to the gospel: nobody seeks after God without help from Him to do so. We don't get it, and we don't want to. That's our nature.

The good news is when someone shares the gospel with us then we can choose to believe or not to believe. No one drags us kicking and screaming to the cross. This is everyone it's not just the non-elect.

 

[civic]

The Word of God can and does reach those who have not been regenerated yet. To say otherwise is to deny the power of the Word of God.

Ditto