An Article on free will

And, Romans 9 has to be in sync with Genesis 1:1, so all of Genesis 1:1 and Romans 1:28-32 and Romans 1:24 and Romans 1:20 and Romans 1:5-7 must sync in the Truth (John 14:6) that Holy Spirit inspired Paul wrote in Romans chapter 9.

God's Sovereign control over Jew and Gentile (Romans 1:5-7), even over reprobates (Romans 1:24) as you put it, reveals that God sovereignly controls the entirety of His creation (Genesis 1:1) as the Potter who prepared beforehand vessels of mercy (Romans 9:23), and Holy Scripture reveals further that vessels of wrath (Romans 9:22), including pharaoh (Romans 9:17), are not prepared beforehand to be vessels of mercy.

You wrote "A person (pharaoh included) does not become a reprobate or vessel of wrath easily, only after God's enduring patience after having zillion of chances to repent" by which you convey that you wholeheartedly believe that "A person (pharaoh included) is a vessel of mercy before the person is a vessel of wrath having exhausted God's enduring patience with a zillion of chances to repent"; therefore, you disbelieve:
  • "it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as seed" (Romans 9:8) and
  • "though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad - in order that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of him who calls - she was told, 'The older will serve the younger.' As it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'" (Romans 9:11-13) and
  • "sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men" (Romans 5:12) and "many died through one man's trespass" (Romans 5:15) and climacticly
  • "No one is good except God alone (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 10:18, see also Romans 3:12)) thus a person is an evil vessel of wrath as the default state of being apart from God and the only Way (John 14:6) for a person to become a vessel of mercy is caused by Lord Jesus Christ for He declares "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father except because of Me" (John 14:6) - the Author and Perfecter of the Faith (Hebrews 12/2)!

Also, you wrote "pharaoh had many chances, he saw (experienced) God's miracles but hardened his heart every time." which requires deeper examination:
You wrote "pharaoh had many chances", but pharaoh did not choose God.​
You wrote "he saw (experienced) God's miracles" - in like fashion free-willians have the Holy Scripture in their hands, but pharaoh did not choose God.​
You wrote "he hardened his heart every time" (both he and his referring to pharaoh), yet your thoughts starkly contrast against Holy Spirit inspired Apostle Paul writing that God hardened pharaoh's heart with "For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.' So then He has mercy on whom He wills, and He hardens whom He wills" (Romans 9:17-18).​
The 3 of you (@GodsGrace and @Johann for your hearty approval to @ProDeo (Romans 1:32)) do the work that you do, that is, downgrading the Sovereign Holy God identified in (Romans 9:18-23) as per your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21), at your own peril!

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE SOVEREIGN POTTER!!!
If the potter is so sovereign.....(and I'm not saying God is not)

Then why does the clay in Jeremiah 18 decide to forsake God?
(read all of chapter 18...)

and

Could you please explain how God can be mad at Israel....
for doing what HE decreed for them to do (according to you)....?


Jeremiah 2:15.19
15 "The young lions have roared at him, They have roared * loudly *. And they have made his land a waste; His cities have been destroyed, without inhabitant.

16 "Also the men of Memphis and Tahpanhes Have shaved the crown of your head.

17 "Have you not
done this to yourself By your forsaking the LORD your God When He led you in the way?

18 "But now what are you doing on the road to Egypt, To drink the waters of the Nile? Or what are you doing on the road to Assyria, To drink the waters of the Euphrates?

19 "Your own wickedness will correct you, And your
apostasies will reprove you; Know therefore and see that it is evil and bitter For you to forsake the LORD your God, And the dread of Me is not in you," declares the Lord GOD of hosts.

20 "For long ago I broke your yoke And tore off your bonds; But you said, 'I will not serve!' For on every high hill And under every green tree You have lain down as a harlot.

21 "Yet I planted you a choice vine, A completely faithful seed.
How then have you turned yourself before Me Into the degenerate shoots of a foreign vine?

22 "Although * you wash yourself with lye And use much soap, The stain of your iniquity is before Me," declares the Lord GOD.
 
Salvific faith / belief is not a work but faithfulness is a fruit of the spirit in the believers life.
Amen my brother. After all, doing God's will; that's what "good works" is all about! Not only that, God has already prepared these good works in advance for each one of us (who believes).

Ephesians 2:10 (NKJV) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
 
Amen my brother. After all, doing God's will; that's what "good works" is all about! Not only that, God has already prepared these good works in advance for each one of us (who believes).

Ephesians 2:10 (NKJV) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Nicely put.
I don't understand why good works is so problematic for some.

I like what you said
"Good works ate doing God's will."

Amen.
 
@civic @Johann @Selah
Salvific faith / belief is not a work but faithfulness is a fruit of the spirit in the believers life.
Even though faith is the product/fruit of the indwelling Spirit, it still is a work by man, that can either be as small as a grain of mustard, or powerful/great enough to say unto a mountain~"be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea"~ which only Christ our Lord had.

Matthew 23:23​

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”

1 John 3:23​

“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”

A commandment to DO is a work on our part. We are commanded to believe and to love one another, equally a work that we must do, a work coming from us, even though will ever be so imperfect, and small in comparison to Christ, whose faith and perfect obedience is the only mean that God accepts for the forgiveness of our sins.

Thus-
Salvific faith = initial, responsive trust in Christ, not meritorious (John 3:16;
Brother Johann, John 3:16 is not a commandment to do in order to received, but a scripture declaring a biblical truth taught all through the scriptures, a huge difference btw. Read it again with the understanding that our Lord is declaring a biblical truth, and then you should see that it will flow perfectly with all of the word of God.

Romans 3:28, is speaking of faith as the system under which God has chosen to use for his elect to come unto the knowledge of the truth and for them to know how they are justified legally by Christ's faith/obedience. Chapter four will prove this with Romans 5:1-19 going more into depth establishing this truth. Romans four is a chapter that few truly can grasp the truth of what Paul is teaching, with Romans 5:1 summarizing for the most part chapter 4!

Romans 5:1​

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”

Therefore.

Paul drew a conclusion from his defense of justification by faith without any works of Moses’ law. God delivered Jesus to death and raised Him from death for our gift of righteousness (4:23-25). Legal justification took place at the cross, by God’s eternal counsel, and laid hold of by our faith. Our faith, like Abraham’s faith, is the evidence of a saved man that God declares to be righteous. Our faith, like Abraham’s faith and Phinehas’ zeal, is counted to us as evidence of righteousness. This word, therefore, draws a conclusion meaning his arguments against the law were sufficient. This word, therefore, draws a conclusion meaning that believers are at peace by the Lord’s work.

Being justified by faith.

Paul had proven justification – declaration that a person is righteous before God – from 3:19 to 4:25. He had denied law works by many proofs, including circumcision coming too late for Abraham. He had proven Abram was declared righteous by faith in a recorded event in his life (Gen 15:6). Abraham had faith and works long before the event used by Paul (Gen 15:6), but it was for Jews. We know we are righteous in God’s sight by our faith as evidence and assurance of justification. God counts our faith as evidence of righteousness, like for Abraham’s faith and Phinehas’ zeal.

The faith here is our faith, not God’s or Christ’s faith, as Abrahamic evidence of righteousness. The justification in Romans 5:1 takes place in our own conscience, when we truly have faith with understanding in our hearts. We see how we were made righteous before God's law by the righteousness of Christ, and seeing this...............

We have peace with God

Here is the first of at least five great spiritual blessings in life coming from justification in Christ. There is no other plan of salvation able to obtain perfect peace between God and sinners. Glory! Peace is the end of hostilities and strife for two once-antagonistic parties to now be friendly. Justification declares us righteous by Jesus Christ’s work, which makes us acceptable to God. Peace resulted when the legal claims of divine justice against us for our crimes were removed. Peace resulted in our own hearts when we heard the glad tidings of this acceptance in the gospel. But peace by itself is a limited term – merely an end of enmity, strife, and war – if in God only. When God is at peace with us, and we are at peace with Him, fellowship and friendship results. God’s wrath is terrible against sinners, but His affection and delight is warm to the righteous.

Through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus' life of obedience for us, secured our justification legally for us, his resurrection from the dead sealed the transaction for our eternal redemption. Our faith in the gospel bring the blessed good news to our hearts, which in term bring peace to our conscience before God. The more perfect one's knowledge is, the more perfect his peace will be.
 
@Johann @Ji,
John 6:29 calls belief the “work of God” not as a meritorious deed of man, but as the divinely appointed means of receiving life—not something earned, but something required.
Johann, I would say it in this way: "John 6:29 calls belief the “work of God” not as a meritorious deed of man, but as the divinely appointed means of receiving the knowledge of eternal life abiding within him"

And this faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God, the only means God has chosen to give faith to his children. Christ's faith is the only means of our legal justification, but practically speaking the knowledge of our free justification comes by the scriptures, and God's free justification is upon them that beleive who have heard the gospel, of course it is upon some others who who have never had the privilege of hearing in order to believe, or who for some reason are just not able to hear, believe and then process that information of what they have heard, such as idiots and feeble minded folks, etc.
 
Brother Johann, John 3:16 is not a commandment to do in order to received, but a scripture declaring a biblical truth taught all through the scriptures, a huge difference btw. Read it again with the understanding that our Lord is declaring a biblical truth, and then you should see that it will flow perfectly with all of the word of God.
Brother, we are absolutely on the same page...please just take a moment to read my posts carefully.

Johann
 
Even though faith is the product/fruit of the indwelling Spirit, it still is a work by man, that can either be as small as a grain of mustard, or powerful/great enough to say unto a mountain~"be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea"~ which only Christ our Lord had.

Matthew 23:23​

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”

1 John 3:23​

“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”

A commandment to DO is a work on our part. We are commanded to believe and to love one another, equally a work that we must do, a work coming from us, even though will ever be so imperfect, and small in comparison to Christ, whose faith and perfect obedience is the only mean that God accepts for the forgiveness of our sins.
I notice you don't get answers--
Faith is not a “work” in the Pauline sense... it does not earn, merit, or obligate salvation...
It stands in opposition to works of the law (Romans 3:28)...
Yet faith is still something man does... an active, commanded response to God's revealed truth (1 John 3:23)...
It is never meritorious, but it is obedient...
It may be as small as a mustard seed, or it may move mountains...
It originates in the human heart, yes... but it finds its only sufficiency in Christ...
The faith that saves is a gift, yet also a command... a response that comes from man...
But salvation is never because of our faith—as though it had power in itself—but through faith...
Because only the perfect faith and obedience of Christ... not ours... is the ground of our forgiveness before God.


Is Faith a Work? Who Believes—God or Man?

Monergists argue that faith is a gift God gives to the elect, and that it is not something man contributes...
That man is spiritually dead and cannot believe unless he is first regenerated...
That faith is not our response, but God’s implanted gift...
But Scripture says otherwise...

1. The Bible never says “God believes for you”... it says you believe...

From beginning to end, Scripture speaks of faith as something man does...
It is never described as God believing in us, or on our behalf...
It is always personal, volitional, accountable...

Matthew 9:22 – “Thy faith hath made thee whole...”

Mark 10:52 – “Thy faith hath made thee whole...”

Luke 7:50 – “Thy faith hath saved thee...”

Romans 1:8 – “Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world...”

1 Thessalonians 1:8 – “...but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad...”

James 2:18 – “Show me thy faith without thy works...”

This is not the language of passive recipients...
It is the language of accountable agents who are expected to respond...
Jesus doesn’t say, “God’s gift of faith saved you”...
He says, “Thy faith hath saved thee”...

2. Faith is commanded—therefore it is a moral responsibility, not a sovereign imposition...


1 John 3:23 – “This is his commandment, that we should believe on the name of his Son...”

Mark 1:15 – “Repent ye, and believe the gospel...”

John 6:29 – “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent...”

Acts 16:31 – “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...”

Commands imply obligation, not automation...
If belief were purely passive—implanted irresistibly—there would be no need to command it...
A man is not commanded to do what God alone irresistibly does in him...
He is commanded to believe... because he can...
Because he must...

3. Faith is not a meritorious work... but it is something we do...

Paul goes out of his way to contrast faith with works...
But he never says faith is not an action...
Only that it does not earn salvation...

Romans 4:5 – “To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness...
Faith is not the ground of salvation... but it is the means...
And it is the means exercised by man...

We are saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8)...
Not because of our faith, as if it were meritorious...
But neither without faith, as if God believes for us...

4. The Greek grammar confirms faith is our action...

The verb πιστεύω (to believe) is active voice throughout...
Never middle or passive when referring to man’s act of believing...
Example:

John 3:16 – πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων – “whoever believes”
 ...present active participle... the subject performs the action...
This would not be the form used if God were believing in us or for us...
It would be passive if we were being acted upon...
But it is active—man is the one who believes...

5. The Early Church unanimously taught faith as man’s response—not God's act for man...

Justin Martyr (c. 150 AD, First Apology 43) –
 “We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments and chastisements and good rewards are rendered according to the merit of each man’s actions. If we all conducted ourselves alike, none would be better than another.”

Clement of Alexandria (c. 200 AD) –
 “Believing and obeying are in our own power... they arise from our voluntary choice...” (Stromata 5.12)

Origen (c. 250 AD) –
 “In the exercise of his free will it is man who believes and comes to God...” (De Principiis 3.1.19)

This is the faith of the pre-Augustinian Church...
Long before monergism...
Before irresistible grace or unconditional election were ever conceived...




Faith is not a “work” in the sense of merit...
But it is a work in the sense of human action...
It is commanded, expected, and judged...
It is your faith... my faith...
And though always weak, imperfect, and dependent on God's mercy...
It must still be real...
It must come from you...
Because the Bible never says God believes for you...
It says: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...” (Acts 16:31)

You agree?

J.
 
Man performs the act of believing-but it is not a meritorious work; it is the response God commands (Acts 16:31; John 3:16).
Nothing one does is a meritorious act.
Jesus says, “This is the work of God, that you believe” (John 6:29)--the genitive τοῦ θεοῦ can indicate source, origin, or requirement.
In context, it means the belief God requires, not that God believes for man.
Yeah, So? What is your point?
Romans 10:10 – “With the heart man believes (πιστεύεται) unto righteousness...”
The subject of belief is man--God doesn't believe on man's behalf.
Again, what is your point?
But Philippians 1:29 shows faith is also graciously granted:
“To you it has been granted... to believe in Him...” – ἐχαρίσθη (has been graciously given).

So.. man believes, as commanded, but the capacity to do so is offered by God..not forced, not automatic, and not meritorious.

J.
The capacity to do so is inherent in the creation; it is not meted out or denied individually.
 
Romans 12:3 – “God has dealt to each a measure of faith”
Greek: “ἑκάστῳ ὡς ὁ Θεὸς ἐμέρισεν μέτρον πίστεως”
ἐμέρισεν (aorist active indicative of μερίζω, "to distribute, apportion")

This refers to believers and the faith within the Body of Christ to serve
(see context: Rom 12:1–8).It is a multifaceted faith, but rather a functional gift for ministry, like prophecy, teaching, or exhortation (vv.6–8).


5) "According as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith," (hekasto hos ho theos emerisen metron pisteos) Humility should characterize the behavior of every Christian and church member, without regards to his talents or gifts of faith and grace. For none in Christ has occasion in himself to boast, 1Co_3:10; 1Co_12:7-9; 1Co_12:11; Grace and faith are given by Christ to every person, according to his need, Php_4:19. Grace, faith, and positions of responsibility are given to each for service use to his fellowman, 1Co_9:22-23.

A measure of faith (metron pisteōs). Accusative case, the object of the verb emerisen. Each has his gift from God (1Co_3:5; 1Co_4:7). There is no occasion for undue pride.
Robertson
I think if you analyze the entire passage, Romans 12:1-8, you will see that the topic there is dealing with gifts given. It is the gifts that are given based upon the measure of faith of the one receiving the gift.
2. Ephesians 2:8 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves...”
Greek: “τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν”
Here, “this” (τοῦτο) is neuter, while “faith” (πίστεως) is feminine, meaning τοῦτο cannot refer specifically to “faith.”
.... Rather, the entire process of salvation by grace through faith is the gift...not the faith in isolation.

Thus, faith is not infused irresistibly, but part of the gracious provision made available by God’s gospel.

3. Faith Comes Through Hearing (Romans 10:17)
“So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.”
ἔρχεται (present middle indicative of ἔρχομαι, "comes, arises")

This shows faith is generated in man through response to God's spoken word...not dropped into the soul unilaterally.
AMEN!
4. God Enables, Man Responds
John 1:9 – “He was the true Light which gives light to every man...”

Acts 17:27 – “That they should seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him...”
God's role is to initiate, man's is to respond. Faith arises when the heart hears and chooses to trust.
Again, AMEN!!
 
@civic @Johann @Selah

Even though faith is the product/fruit of the indwelling Spirit, it still is a work by man, that can either be as small as a grain of mustard, or powerful/great enough to say unto a mountain~"be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea"~ which only Christ our Lord had.

Matthew 23:23​

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”

1 John 3:23​

“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”

A commandment to DO is a work on our part. We are commanded to believe and to love one another, equally a work that we must do, a work coming from us, even though will ever be so imperfect, and small in comparison to Christ, whose faith and perfect obedience is the only mean that God accepts for the forgiveness of our sins.


Brother Johann, John 3:16 is not a commandment to do in order to received, but a scripture declaring a biblical truth taught all through the scriptures, a huge difference btw. Read it again with the understanding that our Lord is declaring a biblical truth, and then you should see that it will flow perfectly with all of the word of God.

Romans 3:28, is speaking of faith as the system under which God has chosen to use for his elect to come unto the knowledge of the truth and for them to know how they are justified legally by Christ's faith/obedience. Chapter four will prove this with Romans 5:1-19 going more into depth establishing this truth. Romans four is a chapter that few truly can grasp the truth of what Paul is teaching, with Romans 5:1 summarizing for the most part chapter 4!

Romans 5:1​

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”

Therefore.

Paul drew a conclusion from his defense of justification by faith without any works of Moses’ law. God delivered Jesus to death and raised Him from death for our gift of righteousness (4:23-25). Legal justification took place at the cross, by God’s eternal counsel, and laid hold of by our faith. Our faith, like Abraham’s faith, is the evidence of a saved man that God declares to be righteous. Our faith, like Abraham’s faith and Phinehas’ zeal, is counted to us as evidence of righteousness. This word, therefore, draws a conclusion meaning his arguments against the law were sufficient. This word, therefore, draws a conclusion meaning that believers are at peace by the Lord’s work.

Being justified by faith.

Paul had proven justification – declaration that a person is righteous before God – from 3:19 to 4:25. He had denied law works by many proofs, including circumcision coming too late for Abraham. He had proven Abram was declared righteous by faith in a recorded event in his life (Gen 15:6). Abraham had faith and works long before the event used by Paul (Gen 15:6), but it was for Jews. We know we are righteous in God’s sight by our faith as evidence and assurance of justification. God counts our faith as evidence of righteousness, like for Abraham’s faith and Phinehas’ zeal.

The faith here is our faith, not God’s or Christ’s faith, as Abrahamic evidence of righteousness. The justification in Romans 5:1 takes place in our own conscience, when we truly have faith with understanding in our hearts. We see how we were made righteous before God's law by the righteousness of Christ, and seeing this...............

We have peace with God

Here is the first of at least five great spiritual blessings in life coming from justification in Christ. There is no other plan of salvation able to obtain perfect peace between God and sinners. Glory! Peace is the end of hostilities and strife for two once-antagonistic parties to now be friendly. Justification declares us righteous by Jesus Christ’s work, which makes us acceptable to God. Peace resulted when the legal claims of divine justice against us for our crimes were removed. Peace resulted in our own hearts when we heard the glad tidings of this acceptance in the gospel. But peace by itself is a limited term – merely an end of enmity, strife, and war – if in God only. When God is at peace with us, and we are at peace with Him, fellowship and friendship results. God’s wrath is terrible against sinners, but His affection and delight is warm to the righteous.

Through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus' life of obedience for us, secured our justification legally for us, his resurrection from the dead sealed the transaction for our eternal redemption. Our faith in the gospel bring the blessed good news to our hearts, which in term bring peace to our conscience before God. The more perfect one's knowledge is, the more perfect his peace will be.
Scripture says we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law
 
That you think God uses you for any such thing is an abomination. That you think you have the intellect, the ability to do that is truly disgusting. That you would think it is nothing more than the extreme narcissistic vaneglory that you express here again and again.

The love of Christ controls us Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14), so your label of "abomination" and "disgusting" and "extreme narcissistic vaneglory" against the love of Christ is your work of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21).

Only God is good for the Word of God declares "No one is good except God alone (Mark 10:18).

God does not trust evil man, not even to choose God, for it is written "Behold, His servants, He does not trust" (Job 4:18).

The awesome Voice from Heaven says "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased" (Matthew 3:17) and "I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again" (John 12:28) and "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!" (Luke 9:35).

Lord Jesus Christ says "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is being poured out for you" (Luke 22:20), so the Blood of Christ covers us Christians for His Blood courses through the Body of Christ (1 John 1:7).

When the Father looks at us Christians, then the Father sees Something Beautiful:

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE BEAUTIFUL LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
 
@GodsGrace @MTMattie @Jim @Johann @ProDeo @civic @Eternally-Grateful @synergy

Jesus paid it all, all to him I owe! Simply stated: Jesus by himself, by his faith, obedience, and righteousness, secured our eternal redemption for us. His spotless life was the payment offered unto God for our sins, and by his resurrection from the dead, show us that the payment was accepted and our sin debt has been fully paid once and for all, to add to what Christ has done for God's elect.

So, according to you, it's not necessary to obey God?
Nothing as far as adding to what Christ has done for our sins to be legally forgiven, from sin and condemnation.
Actually, scripture states that there is something to add to faith.
You see, FAITH ALONE,,,,is a dead faith...a dead faith leads to a dead spirit.

This is what the NT states needs to be added to faith:

Faith plus Baptism: Mark 16:16
Faith plus Hope: 1 Cor 13:13
Faith plus Love: 1 Cor 13:2
Faith plus Bearing fruit: Matthew 3:8
Faith plus obeying: John 14:15

Faith ALONE was never a biblical teaching....from the beginning 2,000 years ago.



Absolutely not. Even though water baptism within itself has not one thing to do with one's sin being legally forgiven, yet if one truly believes after they have heard the truth, then they should arise immediately and be baptized INTO the rellgion/faith of Jesus Christ and commit their life to serving him ~ Per Acts 10:47,48
You want to discuss whether or not baptism is necessary?
Did Jesus not command the Apostles to teach and baptize in all nations all whom they taught?
Do you not even believe Jesus?

Mark 16:16
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Matthew 28:19

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Did Jesus not COMMAND the Apostles to make disciples and to baptize?

All of these and more!

We work with God? Let Paul tell us how he live his life:

Galatians 2:20​

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

Christ secured the very life I now live in flesh FOR ME, by God creating Christ's image IN ME, that is, in my new man, and by that man, I live my Christian life, even though the old man of sin and death is still with me, but, by the faith Of Christ (his image in me) I'm more than conquerors through Christ who loved me and gave himself for me.
Oh. I see. You're living by the faith OF Christ.
So, IOW, you don't require your own faith.

Galatians 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Must we Christians really have to discuss which VERSION of the bible one wishes to adhere to?
It's a sad state of affairs.
Here is a list of different versions.
If you notice, you apparently are using the KJV....
please take note that the NKJV does not agree with the old KJV.
This should tell you something.



New International Version
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

New Living Translation
My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

English Standard Version
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Berean Standard Bible
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Berean Literal Bible
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And that which I now live in the flesh, I live through faith from the Son of God, the One having loved me and having given up Himself for me.

King James Bible
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

New King James Version
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

New American Standard Bible
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

NASB 1995
“I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

NASB 1977
“I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me.

Legacy Standard Bible
I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. And the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Amplified Bible
I have been crucified with Christ [that is, in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body I live by faith [by adhering to, relying on, and completely trusting] in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Christian Standard Bible
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

source: Biblehub.com

Romans 8:37​

“Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.”

Selah! May the Lord Jesus Christ alone be praised.
No RB.
We silly goose Christians that believe we have to obey Jesus and the commands in the NT
just wish to give to ourselves all the credit for all the good we attempt to do.

Only Calvinists give glory to God...
and this by teaching, as you do, that we don't even need TO OBEY HIM!

I'm sure God is very pleased with the "glory" you and others give to Him.
 
The love of Christ controls us Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14), so your label of "abomination" and "disgusting" and "extreme narcissistic vaneglory" against the love of Christ is your work of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21).

Only God is good for the Word of God declares "No one is good except God alone (Mark 10:18).

God does not trust evil man, not even to choose God, for it is written "Behold, His servants, He does not trust" (Job 4:18).

The awesome Voice from Heaven says "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased" (Matthew 3:17) and "I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again" (John 12:28) and "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!" (Luke 9:35).

Lord Jesus Christ says "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is being poured out for you" (Luke 22:20), so the Blood of Christ covers us Christians for His Blood courses through the Body of Christ (1 John 1:7).

When the Father looks at us Christians, then the Father sees Something Beautiful:

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE BEAUTIFUL LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
Does the above state that God is sovereign?

How do you figure that Kermos?

I say you're worshipping a god that is definitely not the God Christians worship.

Our God is a powerful God and does not fear giving free will to mankind.
Your God seems to be so weak that he fears giving free will to the very creatures He created.

Matthew 15:7-9
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 “ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ ”


You believe the above has something to do with free will??

Take a second look.
Jesus is calling those that steal from their very family HYPOCRITES.
Why?
Because they honor God with their lips but their hearts are far from God.
They worship in vain....following human teachings.

Now WHY would Jesus call them hypocrites?
Aren't they just doing what God decreed them to do from the beginning of time?

Didn't Jesus know this??
Was Jesus unaware that God Father decrees EVERYTHING that comes to pass??
 
@GodsGrace
So, according to you, it's not necessary to obey God?
I have never said that ~but, I will say, our obedience has not one thing to do with our salvation from sin and condemnation, not one jot or tittle! All of God's children said...AMEN and AMEN.

I'll come back in morning and answer all of your post to me. It's getting close to your bed time and I do not want to disturb your sleep~ :)
 
@GodsGrace

I have never said that ~but, I will say, our obedience has not one thing to do with our salvation from sin and condemnation, not one jot or tittle! All of God's children said...AMEN and AMEN.

I'll come back in morning and answer all of your post to me. It's getting close to your bed time and I do not want to disturb your sleep~ :)
Huh? Our obedience to Jesus' command to "Repent and Believe the Gospel" had not one thing to do with our salvation??? Seriously???

Who is the "silly goose" now?
 
If I said this I would be gone in a second brother.

Unbelievable this is the language from a believer.

J.
Remember the words of Jesus in John 7:24, “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment,” and Paul’s admonition in Galatians 5:15: “But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another...”

Shalom and God bless.

Johann.

Right;)
 
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