An Article on free will

[Jim]

According to Rom 8:8 can a person in the flesh please God ? Yes or No

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

 

[GodsGrace]

It does not say "there goes free will". LOL


Keep going professor.

"there goes free will" was written by me, Presby.
Did you notice that Chapter 9 Paragraph 1 does not state that?
Did you notice that it's in a DIFFERENT COLOR INK?

YOU do not believe in Free Will Presby.
You believe God does everything and predestinated everything.

This is my last post to you.
It's impossible to have a real conversation with you because, as I've
already stated, you do have a comprehension problem and I just can't deal with it.

 

[GodsGrace]

I trust Jesus.

YOU trust John Calvin, and the rest of them.
If you trusted Jesus you'd believe what He and the other writers of the NT taught.

Free Will is taught in both the OT and the NT:

Psalm 110:3
3Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power;
In holy array, from the womb of the dawn,
Your youth are to You as the dew.


Deuteronomy 23:23
23“You shall be careful to perform what goes out from your lips, just as you have voluntarily vowed to the LORD your God, what you have promised.

Exodus 35:29
29The Israelites, all the men and women, whose heart moved them to bring material for all the work, which the LORD had commanded through Moses to be done, brought a freewill offering to the LORD.


1 Corinthians 9:17
17For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.

2 Corinthians 8:3
3For I testify that according to their ability, and beyond their ability, they gave of their own accord,


Philomen 1:14
14but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.

You wrote you are here "for truth" (proof post #7,481), but you skipped the Truth (John 14:6) that your heart's "Titus 2:11 all men obviously refers to everyone" (proof post #7,281) leads to the following situation for fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers in relation to God according to your Free-willian Philosophy:

• God brought salvation to Tom, independently before Tom heard of God. if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• God brought salvation to Nancy, independently before Nancy heard of God. if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.

The above is rather illogical.
IF GOD brought salvation to both Tom and Nancy....then both Tom and Nancy are saved.
OR
You should go back and restudy your faith system.

The examples you give work well with mainline theology,,,
NOT with reformed/calvinist theology.

• The conclusion: Christ's salvation succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ's salvation failed in saving Nancy of the world.

So, you free-willians believe in Christ's failure atonement since people like Nancy end up in hell while being among the all men having Christ's salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

Huh? You're either in the Spirit or in the flesh. You can't be both. That's why a regenerate must choose between the two as per verse 13.

Are the regenerated with the Spirit, in the flesh according to Pauls statement in Rom 8:9 Yes or no

 

[brightfame52]

A regenerate who chooses to be in the flesh and not in the Spirit cannot please God.

As for unregenerates you already agreed that they can please God if they believe in the Gospel. See Post 7572.

According to Rom 8:8 can a person in the flesh please God ? Yes or No

 

[brightfame52]

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

According to Rom 8:8 can a person in the flesh please God ? Yes or No

 

[Jim]

According to Rom 8:8 can a person in the flesh please God ? Yes or No

Did Paul, who acknowledged his "life I now live in the flesh" please God? Yes or No.

Perhaps you do not understand at all what the phrase "in the flesh" in Romans 8:8 means. In fact, I would posit that you definitely do not.

 

[brightfame52]

Did Paul, who acknowledged his "life I now live in the flesh" please God? Yes or No.

Perhaps you do not understand at all what the phrase "in the flesh" in Romans 8:8 means. In fact, I would posit that you definitely do not.

According to Rom 8:8 can a person in the flesh please God ? Yes or No

 

[TomL]

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerated, so they cannot believe, which pleases God. No sense in chasing your sound bites. One of the rules of bible study, in understanding a scripture or passage,be sure it doesnt contradict other scripture, you cant go by sound bites,but carefully compare scripture with scripture 1 Cor 2:13

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I know the natural man in the flesh cannot please God from Rom 8:8 thats clear, so Jn 20:31 is to the regenerated sheep

Not if you actually read the verse and address it for what it states

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Rom 8:8 does not state man is incapable of believing God

This is yet another thing you read that into scripture

 

[brightfame52]

Not if you actually read the verse and address it for what it states

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Rom 8:8 does not state man is incapable of believing God

This is yet another thing you read that into scripture

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerated, so they cannot believe, which pleases God. No sense in chasing your sound bites. One of the rules of bible study, in understanding a scripture or passage,be sure it doesnt contradict other scripture, you cant go by sound bites,but carefully compare scripture with scripture 1 Cor 2:13

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I know the natural man in the flesh cannot please God from Rom 8:8 thats clear, so Jn 20:31 is to the regenerated sheep

 

[TomL]

Calvin writes in his Institutes of the Christian Religion (3.1.4):

“Faith is the principal work of the Holy Spirit.”

and in Institutes (3.2.34):

“Faith is a special gift of God, and by no means a work of our own.”

Thus, the quote you provided is best understood not as a denial of the divine origin of faith, but as an exegetical decision on John 6:29 specifically, where Calvin interprets the construction as emphasizing human obligation rather than divine causation.

J.

The point remains however

John 6:29 does not teach the Calvinist belief according to Calvin and thwe others



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



As well as others

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.



The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

 

[TomL]

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerated, so they cannot believe, which pleases God. No sense in chasing your sound bites. One of the rules of bible study, in understanding a scripture or passage,be sure it doesnt contradict other scripture, you cant go by sound bites,but carefully compare scripture with scripture 1 Cor 2:13

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I know the natural man in the flesh cannot please God from Rom 8:8 thats clear, so Jn 20:31 is to the regenerated sheep

Not if you actually read the verse and address it for what it states

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Rom 8:8 does not state man is incapable of believing God

This is yet another thing you read that into scripture

 

[civic]

Rom 8:13 clearly shows that Paul is talking about regenerates, not unregenerates. That proves that verses Rom 8:1-13 is talking about regenerates. You failed miserably to prove that all unregenerates cannot please God for the 1000th time.

Therefore, your heretical theories that all unregenerates cannot please God crash and burn for the 1000th time.

ditto

 

[civic]

The point remains however

John 6:29 does not teach the Calvinist belief according to Calvin and thwe others



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



As well as others

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.



The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

ditto

 

[brightfame52]

Not if you actually read the verse and address it for what it states

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Rom 8:8 does not state man is incapable of believing God

This is yet another thing you read that into scripture

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerate, so they cannot believe, which pleases God. See believing on the name of the Son is a command and it pleases God 1 Jn 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Neither can the carnal mind obey a command of God Rom 8:7

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The unregenerate have a carnal mind, thats it, and so its #1 enmity against God, Jesus is God, and its not subject to the law of God. Te word law nomos means:

anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

1. of any law whatsoever
   
   1. a law or rule producing a state approved of God

The word subject is hypotassō:

1. to subject one's self, obey

So the unregenerate cannot obey the command of God to believe on Christ which is pleasing in His sight.

 

[Jim]

According to Rom 8:8 can a person in the flesh please God ? Yes or No

Does "in the flesh" in Rom 8:8 mean the same as it does in Gal 2:20? If so, explain Galatians 2:20.,

 

[TomL]

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerate, so they cannot believe, which pleases God. See believing on the name of the Son is a command and it pleases God 1 Jn 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Neither can the carnal mind obey a command of God Rom 8:7

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The unregenerate have a carnal mind, thats it, and so its #1 enmity against God, Jesus is God, and its not subject to the law of God. Te word law nomos means:

anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

1. of any law whatsoever
   1. a law or rule producing a state approved of God

The word subject is hypotassō:

1. to subject one's self, obey

So the unregenerate cannot obey the command of God to believe on Christ which is pleasing in His sight.

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Rom 8:8 does not state man is incapable of believing God

The context concerns obeying the law as your own post shows

for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be

That does not mean you cannot believe on the one who died for you and gives the spirit so that you may please God and obey his law





This is yet another thing you read that into scripture

 

[brightfame52]

Does "in the flesh" in Rom 8:8 mean the same as it does in Gal 2:20? If so, explain Galatians 2:20.,

Study for yourself, please dont ask me to do your labor in the word

 

[brightfame52]

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Rom 8:8 does not state man is incapable of believing God

The context concerns obeying the law as your own post shows

for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be

That does not mean you cannot believe on the one who died for you and gives the spirit so that you may please God and obey his law





This is yet another thing you read that into scripture

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerate, so they cannot believe, which pleases God. See believing on the name of the Son is a command and it pleases God 1 Jn 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Neither can the carnal mind obey a command of God Rom 8:7

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. i explained

 

[TomL]

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerate, so they cannot believe, which pleases God. See believing on the name of the Son is a command and it pleases God 1 Jn 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Neither can the carnal mind obey a command of God Rom 8:7

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. i explained

You ignored the fact that the refernce concerns obeying the law

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Rom 8:8 does not state man is incapable of believing God

The context concerns obeying the law as your own post shows

for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be

That does not mean you cannot believe on the one who died for you and gives the spirit so that you may please God and obey his law

This is yet another thing you read that into scripture