An Article on free will

[Kermos]

You are a determinist Calvinist and there is no such thing as a “ free willian” Calvinist



You offer nothing but strawman arguments

Again, you fail to present anything that demonstrates that I am an error about your definition of the world in John 12:47 and John 3:16 with respect to people like Alice. The details about Bob and Alice are just a little further into this post for your convenience.

I don't quote Calvin nor Arndt nor any Calvinist as support for the Sovereignty of God. By God's grace for God's glory, I quote the Word of God.

You are the free-willian Calvinist who quotes your god Arndt as support for your free-willian philosophy failure atonement of Christ. Just look at your post quited below. There is such a thing as Free-willian Calvinists - both you and @TomL are such persons because you preach the words of your gods as support for your nonsensical and unscriptural free will.

The Golden Rule of Interpretation

“When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”–Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965),founder of The Biblical Research Society

These Greek Lexicons affirm world means all, everyone, the whole world without exception.

Thayers

Cosmos: the inhabitants of the

5. world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7(yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17.

6. "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5;λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

Continued :

1 John 2:2-He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:15-17-Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

1 John 4:3-6- but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the worldand therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 John 4:14- And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world

1 John 5:19- We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Now its very clear from the Lexicon definition and in 1 John that the cosmos/world does not mean Gods elect (that is Calvinism) not what John means in his epistle. It clearly means everyone with no exceptions in this world, all of its inhabitants who make up the ungodly multitude. It is clearly all inclusive of everyone, all, the entire world that lies under the evil one in opposition to God from the context of 1 John.

Only someone with a closed mind trapped in their dogma/doctrine would argue otherwise resulting in eisegesis( reading their own ideas into the text) rather than exegesis ( letting the text dictate ones ideas ).

We see above that the whole world lies under the evil one and its that same identical whole world in 1 John 2:2 that Jesus made PROPITIATION for which is clear from the CONTEXT in 1 John.

So if the above truth from 1 John 2:2 which is clear as to the biblical meaning is all inclusive not exclusive ( Gods elect Jew/Gentiles) which comes from ones dogma/doctrine ( calvinism) and not Scripture and specifically in 1 John makes me a non calvinist then I'm here to official renounce my association with that group.

I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma, never the doctrines of men, never to win friends, but to only uphold the Truth in Gods word from its context. And the context here is in clear opposition to the teaching of Calvinsm in 1 John. World NEVER means Jew/Gentiles in the epistle but means all of the inhabitants of the world /cosmos who are ungodly , where the lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes come from and the god of this world the evil one the spirit of antichrist , the spirit of falsehoods rules and reigns in all of those inhabitants in opposition to God.

Its that world whom Christ made propitiation. Doctrine/Dogma will never cloud my mind and I will seek, search truth until my dying day and never allow any systematic theology or bias to cloud my view of Scripture.

hope this helps !!!

Your "hope this helps" about your post truly helps in demonstrating your failure to understand context, again. By God's grace for God's glory, I am sequentially segment this post to make it easier to understand context.

1. Interpretation of Holy Scripture
2. @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
3. Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
4. Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
5. Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
6. Dogma and doctrine are importantly Truth (John 14:6)

1. Interpretation of Holy Scripture
   
   You inherit the writings of other people as your own writings when you exalt those people's writings as authority in your posts.
   
   Your heart's treasure securely holds to that which you call "The Golden Rule of Interpretation".
   
   
   When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.
   ​
   
   That's a very high authoritative bar that you set there, civic, your "Golden Rule of Interpretation".
   
   Your fleshly mind's "common sense" is all that you need, and you can make "plain sense of Scripture" exclusively using your "common sense" before you are born of God according to your cumulative writings.
   
   Now, the time has come to compare and contrast your dearly held belief with the Apostle Peter's words:
   

   The Fleshly Traditions of Men		Holy Scripture
   know this first of all, that every prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for it matters not whether prophecy was made by an act of human will, or men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 civic 1:20-21)		know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 Peter 1:20-21)

   
   Peter and I are God-centered.
   
   You and TomL are man-centered.
   
2. @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
   
   TomL caused himself to repeatedly preach that John 12:47 dictates the meaning of the word world in John 3:16-17; on the other hand, God caused me to proclaim that the word world in John 3:18 is contextually contiguously relevant in the same dialog as John 3:16-17 as compared to the temporally distant dialog in John 12:47.
   
3. Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
   
   Here is the precious and pure Word of God "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
   
   Lord and God Jesus Christ saves each one from the wrath of God who believes in the Son whom the Father has sent; in contrast, every one goes to hell who does not believe in Jesus (John 7:21-27).
   
   The Son says "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day" (John 6:39).
   
   There are two contexts regarding saved persons and unsaved people within the 29 words issued by Jesus recorded in John 12:47:
   

   Clause		Context
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
   for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		saved people (now and then) / current believers and future believers

   
   We Christians hear Christ clearly convey that the world contextually includes exclusively current believers and future believers, that is, saved people, as per His loving "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
   
4. Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
   
   Of the word "world" in John 12:47, your heart assigned the definition of "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" in a fashion similar to TomL.
   
   

   Clause		Context
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
   for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[

   
   The implications of your "the world" in John 12:47 are multiple.
   
   According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin unbelievers:
   • if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit Bob with eternal life.
   • if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
   • The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.
   So man is the cause of eternal life because man goes to hell without man choosing to believe in Christ.
   
   On to another dark consequence of your Free-willian Philosophy "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ failed to save that saved unbeliever (see John 12:47 and the Alice example above).
   
   Your belief in failure atonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he died to save.
   
   The context around John 12:47 is relevant.
   
   Your heart set "the world" equal to "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[", so your heart equivocates "the world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".
   
   Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
   

   The word of civic		The Word of God
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save any unbeliever who calls in his own initiative speaking his self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me. (civic 12:47)		If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. (John 12:47-49)

   And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.
   
   See your heart has your "the world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).
   
   A deeper sinister darkness lurks in your context for John 12:47. Both Bob and Alice start off as part of the world, so even believer Bob is unsaved because unbeliever Alice is unsaved which causes the entirety of the world to be unsaved from the wrath of God. Do not be deceived, Lord Jesus said "to save the world" in John 12:47 - "the world" is an aggregate phrase indicating the entire world.
   
   God caused me to address TomL's specific Free-willian Philosophical point, and you injected yourself as TomL's champion regarding TomL's Free-willian Philosophy, so you are one who does not receive Christ's sayings (John 12:48 - notice John 12:47 which is directly adjacent to John 12:48).
   
5. Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
   
   Let's look at Jesus' term the world in a directly adjacent critical text to John 3:16-17:
   
   
   16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
   (John 3:17-18)
   ​
   
   Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18 (which is directly adjacent to John 3:16-17 instead of way over to John 12:47 that fails as a proof text for your Free-willian Philosophy as demonstrated above).
   
   The dead in sin must be born of God in order to righteously perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3); furthermore, Lord Jesus Christ establishes the ordained order of salvation in John chapter 3 with John 3:3 preceding John 3:16 in the same dialog.
   
   Your Free-willian Philosophy holds that the dead in sin cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ), so your Free-willian Philosophy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the dead in sin do not cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ).
   
   The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
   
6. Dogma is important Truth (John 14:6)
   
   Your heart discounts the concept of dogma with your words "I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma".
   
   Now while they were passing through the cities, they were delivering the dogma which had been decided upon by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem, for them to observe (Acts 16:4).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

 

[TomL]

Again, you fail to present anything that demonstrates that I am an error about your definition of the world in John 12:47 and John 3:16 with respect to people like Nancy. The details about Tom and Nancy are just a little further into this post for your convenience.

I don't quote Calvin nor Arndt nor any Calvinist as support for the Sovereignty of God. By God's grace for God's glory, I quote the Word of God.

You are the free-willian Calvinist who quotes your god Arndt as support for your free-willian philosophy failure atonement of Christ. Just look at your post quited below. There is such a thing as Free-willian Calvinists - both you and @TomL are such persons because you preach the words of your gods as support for your nonsensical and unscriptural free will.

Um that would be false witness

You have ignored the lexical and contextual data

The lexicons agree as to the meaning of the term world in the relevant passages (bolded)

World - kosmos

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446

contextual

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.


Why does Christ not condemn any unbeliever at his first coming

It is right in the text but you ignore it

for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
save here is in the subjunctive mood noting possibility

Its the word of God you claim to posit but you have actually ignored it

Christ came to save (subjunctive mood) the world

which includes any unbeliever

Apparently you are ignorant of the subjunctive mood as it appears in

John 3:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

It is the mood of possibility

2889 [e]	κόσμον kosmon	world	N-AMS
2443 [e]	ἵνα hina	that	Conj
2919 [e]	κρίνῃ krinē	He might judge	V-ASA-3S
3588 [e]	τὸν ton	the	Art-AMS
2889 [e]	κόσμον, kosmon	world,	N-AMS
235 [e]	ἀλλ’ all’	but	Conj
2443 [e]	ἵνα hina	that	Conj
4982 [e]	σωθῇ sōthē	might be saved	V-ASP-3S

V-ASP-3S Verb - aorist subjunctive passive - 3rd person singular



Subjunctive

The Subjunctive mood expresses possibility or probability. It is almost like the indicative in the future time with a “maybe” or “possibly” or even “probably” attached to it.

1. As a condition with some doubt:
“If you would believe in Christ, you will be saved.”
ἐὰν πιστεύῃς εἰς χριστόν, σωθήσῃ.
2. As expressing purpose:
“I preached in order that you might believe.”
ἐκήρυξα, ἵνα πιστεύῃς.
3. As a command in the 1st person (hortatory):
“Let’s believe in Christ.”
πιστεύωμεν εἰς χριστόν.
4. As a deliberative question expecting a command for an answer:
“Should you believe in Christ? Believe in Him!”
πιστεύῃς εἰς χριστόν; πίστευε εἰς αὐτόν.


Edward W. Goodrick, Do It Yourself Hebrew and Greek: A Guide to Biblical Language Tools (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1980), x.

Also

John 12:47

235 [e]	ἀλλ’ all’	but	Conj
2443 [e]	ἵνα hina	that	Conj
4982 [e]	σώσω sōsō	I might save	V-ASA-1S

The actual fact - Those in the world who believe will be saved and those in the world who do not believe will not be saved

you ignore both contextual fact and lexical data so when you claim nothing is put foward to dispute you, you bear false witness

 

[TomL]

Let's look at Jesus' term the world in a directly adjacent critical text to John 3:16-17:

​

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.​

(John 3:17-18)​

Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18 (which is directly adjacent to John 3:16-17 instead of way over to John 12:47 that fails as a proof text for your Free-willian Philosophy as demonstrated above).

You just ignored

For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

again subjunctive case indicating doubt and possibility and not an indicative statement

The Subjunctive mood expresses possibility or probability. It is almost like the indicative in the future time with a “maybe” or “possibly” or even “probably” attached to it.

1. As a condition with some doubt:
“If you would believe in Christ, you will be saved.”
ἐὰν πιστεύῃς εἰς χριστόν, σωθήσῃ.
2. As expressing purpose:
“I preached in order that you might believe.”
ἐκήρυξα, ἵνα πιστεύῃς.
3. As a command in the 1st person (hortatory):
“Let’s believe in Christ.”
πιστεύωμεν εἰς χριστόν.
4. As a deliberative question expecting a command for an answer:
“Should you believe in Christ? Believe in Him!”
πιστεύῃς εἰς χριστόν; πίστευε εἰς αὐτόν.


Edward W. Goodrick, Do It Yourself Hebrew and Greek: A Guide to Biblical Language Tools (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1980), x.

. Unbelievers did not receive eternal condemnation at Christ's first advent but were given opportunity to repent and believe and be saved through Christ

This has been true ever since and will continue until Christ comes

God's love was for the world and Christ was given for all


Christ died list

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Those the world who believe will be saved and those in the world who die in unbelief will not

John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[TomL]

You are a determinist Calvinist and there is no such thing as a “ free willian” Calvinist



You offer nothing but strawman arguments

Seems he has made up terms as well as doctrine

 

[civic]

Again, you fail to present anything that demonstrates that I am an error about your definition of the world in John 12:47 and John 3:16 with respect to people like Alice. The details about Bob and Alice are just a little further into this post for your convenience.

I don't quote Calvin nor Arndt nor any Calvinist as support for the Sovereignty of God. By God's grace for God's glory, I quote the Word of God.

You are the free-willian Calvinist who quotes your god Arndt as support for your free-willian philosophy failure atonement of Christ. Just look at your post quited below. There is such a thing as Free-willian Calvinists - both you and @TomL are such persons because you preach the words of your gods as support for your nonsensical and unscriptural free will.




Your "hope this helps" about your post truly helps in demonstrating your failure to understand context, again. By God's grace for God's glory, I am sequentially segment this post to make it easier to understand context.

1. Interpretation of Holy Scripture
2. @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
3. Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
4. Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
5. Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
6. Dogma and doctrine are importantly Truth (John 14:6)

1. Interpretation of Holy Scripture
   
   You inherit the writings of other people as your own writings when you exalt those people's writings as authority in your posts.
   
   Your heart's treasure securely holds to that which you call "The Golden Rule of Interpretation".
   
   
   When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.
   ​
   
   That's a very high authoritative bar that you set there, civic, your "Golden Rule of Interpretation".
   
   Your fleshly mind's "common sense" is all that you need, and you can make "plain sense of Scripture" exclusively using your "common sense" before you are born of God according to your cumulative writings.
   
   Now, the time has come to compare and contrast your dearly held belief with the Apostle Peter's words:
   

   The Fleshly Traditions of Men		Holy Scripture
   know this first of all, that every prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for it matters not whether prophecy was made by an act of human will, or men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 civic 1:20-21)		know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 Peter 1:20-21)

   
   Peter and I are God-centered.
   
   You and TomL are man-centered.
   
2. @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
   
   TomL caused himself to repeatedly preach that John 12:47 dictates the meaning of the word world in John 3:16-17; on the other hand, God caused me to proclaim that the word world in John 3:18 is contextually contiguously relevant in the same dialog as John 3:16-17 as compared to the temporally distant dialog in John 12:47.
   
3. Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
   
   Here is the precious and pure Word of God "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
   
   Lord and God Jesus Christ saves each one from the wrath of God who believes in the Son whom the Father has sent; in contrast, every one goes to hell who does not believe in Jesus (John 7:21-27).
   
   The Son says "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day" (John 6:39).
   
   There are two contexts regarding saved persons and unsaved people within the 29 words issued by Jesus recorded in John 12:47:
   

   Clause		Context
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
   for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		saved people (now and then) / current believers and future believers

   
   We Christians hear Christ clearly convey that the world contextually includes exclusively current believers and future believers, that is, saved people, as per His loving "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
   
4. Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
   
   Of the word "world" in John 12:47, your heart assigned the definition of "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" in a fashion similar to TomL.
   
   

   Clause		Context
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
   for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[

   
   The implications of your "the world" in John 12:47 are multiple.
   
   According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin unbelievers:
   • if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit Bob with eternal life.
   • if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
   • The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.
   So man is the cause of eternal life because man goes to hell without man choosing to believe in Christ.
   
   On to another dark consequence of your Free-willian Philosophy "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ failed to save that saved unbeliever (see John 12:47 and the Alice example above).
   
   Your belief in failure atonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he died to save.
   
   The context around John 12:47 is relevant.
   
   Your heart set "the world" equal to "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[", so your heart equivocates "the world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".
   
   Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
   

   The word of civic		The Word of God
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save any unbeliever who calls in his own initiative speaking his self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me. (civic 12:47)		If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. (John 12:47-49)

   And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.
   
   See your heart has your "the world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).
   
   A deeper sinister darkness lurks in your context for John 12:47. Both Bob and Alice start off as part of the world, so even believer Bob is unsaved because unbeliever Alice is unsaved which causes the entirety of the world to be unsaved from the wrath of God. Do not be deceived, Lord Jesus said "to save the world" in John 12:47 - "the world" is an aggregate phrase indicating the entire world.
   
   God caused me to address TomL's specific Free-willian Philosophical point, and you injected yourself as TomL's champion regarding TomL's Free-willian Philosophy, so you are one who does not receive Christ's sayings (John 12:48 - notice John 12:47 which is directly adjacent to John 12:48).
   
5. Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
   
   Let's look at Jesus' term the world in a directly adjacent critical text to John 3:16-17:
   
   
   16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
   (John 3:17-18)
   ​
   
   Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18 (which is directly adjacent to John 3:16-17 instead of way over to John 12:47 that fails as a proof text for your Free-willian Philosophy as demonstrated above).
   
   The dead in sin must be born of God in order to righteously perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3); furthermore, Lord Jesus Christ establishes the ordained order of salvation in John chapter 3 with John 3:3 preceding John 3:16 in the same dialog.
   
   Your Free-willian Philosophy holds that the dead in sin cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ), so your Free-willian Philosophy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the dead in sin do not cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ).
   
   The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
   
6. Dogma is important Truth (John 14:6)
   
   Your heart discounts the concept of dogma with your words "I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma".
   
   Now while they were passing through the cities, they were delivering the dogma which had been decided upon by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem, for them to observe (Acts 16:4).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

The lexicons and scripture expose your doctrines on the world and the atonement to be biased and in gross error.

 

[Presby02]

That is not in text of John 12:47

So once again

Why did Christ say he does not judge any who do not believe at that time according to the text?

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

You asked and your question was answered.

They were not condemned in John 12 because they were condemned John 3:18

 

[civic]

You asked and your question was answered.

They were not condemned in John 12 because they were condemned John 3:18

All unbelievers are condemned since they have rejected the gospel. So your point is mute.

 

[Presby02]

All unbelievers are condemned since they have rejected the gospel. So your point is mute.

Exactly. So condemning them in John 12 is unnecessary.

Spit on brother. LOL

 

[Kermos]

More nonsense

Parallel texts

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

any unbeliever is a part of the world Christ came to save

John 3:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


It's the same world Christ came to save here

The same world Christ that was the object of God's love

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The same world Christ was given for

But it seems you will not deal with the meaning of world here

and refuse to see Christ was given and died for all in the world

Instead you want to pretend I am arguing free will here rather than the extent of the atonement

It's a rather disingenuous approach as you were already informed, but it seems repetition of this

motte and bailey argument is all you have and are not capable of dealing with the argument presented

You labeled the Word of God as your "More nonsense" context! No Christian call the precious Word of God "More nonsense"!

You wrote "Christ was given and died for all in the world", so, according to your Free-willian Philosophy, Christ is a failure of epic proportions because of people like Nancy and Alice mentioned in nearby posts.

In concession to your context that John 12:47 supplies defining factor for John 3:16-17 in your post, the text of John 12:47 migrated into the word of TomL after TomL 3:17, please see the below.

The word "world" in John 3:3-21 in the pure Word of God is restricted to current and future believers.

Of John 3:3-21, your spirit prophecies:

The word of TomL		The Word of God
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe, how will you CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven EXCEPT MEN WHO JUDGE RIGHT IN THEIR OWN INITIATIVE TO BELIEVE IN ME AND He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever IS UNBORN OF GOD CHOOSING TO BELIEVE will have BORN THIS UNBORN WHOEVER'S SELF INTO eternal life. 16 For God so loved EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever LOVES THE DARKNESS RATHER THAN THE LIGHT CHOOSING TO BELIEVE in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME to judge EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, but that EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME might be saved through Him. If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world JOHN 12:47 18 He who FORCED GOD TO CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE BORN AGAIN BECAUSE OF HIS SELF-WILLED BELIEVING in Him is not judged; he who does not CHOOSE TO believe has been judged already, because he has not CHOSEN TO BELIEVE in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.” 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is NOT born again he can see the kingdom of God.” 4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh AND THIS EVIL FLESH PLEASES GOD, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit OF NO SIGNIFICANCE. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know EXACTLY where it comes from and EXACTLY where it is going BECAUSE YOUR CHOOSING OF ME CONTROLS YOUR BECOMING BORN OF THE SPIRIT; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (the word of TomL 3:3-21 (no longer the Word of God))		3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” 9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.” (John 3:3-21)

So, your spirit prophecies a very different message than the marvelous Holy Spirit inspired Word of God sayings.

For important detail, please see post #2,121.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LORD JESUS!!!

 

[TomL]

You labeled the Word of God as your "More nonsense" context! No Christian call the precious Word of God "More nonsense"!

Not the word of God but your spin

Parallel texts

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

any unbeliever is a part of the world Christ came to save

John 3:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


It's the same world Christ came to save here

The same world Christ that was the object of God's love

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The same world Christ was given for

But it seems you will not deal with the meaning of world here

and refuse to see Christ was given and died for all in the world

Instead you want to pretend I am arguing free will here rather than the extent of the atonement

It's a rather disingenuous approach as you were already informed, but it seems repetition of this

motte and bailey argument is all you have and are not capable of dealing with the argument presented

You wrote "Christ was given and died for all in the world", so, according to your Free-willian Philosophy, Christ is a failure of epic proportions because of people like Nancy and Alice mentioned in nearby posts.

Nope it was a subjunctive might and it is the word of God which you ignore

Christ died list

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

In concession to your context that John 12:47 supplies defining factor for John 3:16-17 in your post, the text of John 12:47 migrated into the word of TomL after TomL 3:17, please see the below.

The word "world" in John 3:3-21 in the pure Word of God is restricted to current and future believers.

sorry that is your unsupported claim

It ignores John 12:47 parallel tests

and it ignores the lexical data

as well as other scripture


1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9

 

[TomL]

You asked and your question was answered.

They were not condemned in John 12 because they were condemned John 3:18

sorry it was not answered

You diverted to another text

Another Calvinist dodge demonstrating duplicitous handling of scripture

why does Jesus not judge those who do not believe at his first advent according to the text
John 12:47 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

 

[Kermos]

The lexicons and scripture expose your doctrines on the world and the atonement to be biased and in gross error.

As I explained to you, I do not plan to stop talking about these verses that you quote which you adulterate that demonstrate your thoughts that lead to Christ's failure atonement according to your traditions of men a.k.a. the Book of Free-willians. The verses to discuss are shown below.

The Atonement has no limits, you have a false gospel and make Jesus and the Apostles liars.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

Loraine Boettner the world renown Calvinist theologian has stated on p. 59 of his book, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination,

"prove any one of them true and all of the others will follow as logical and necessary parts of the system. Prove any one of them false and the whole system must be abandoned."

1)I have already proven irresistible grace is not true with Acts 7:51

2)I have proven the atonement is not limited- John 1:20, 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 2 Pet 3:9 and 1 John 2:2

3)I have proven that election is not unconditional- whosoever will may come, that means all, everyone from numerous passages . John 1:12 John 3:16

Conclusion : tulip is a false gospel

hope this helps !!!

God causes me to visit each and every verse that you quoted.

As a reminder for you, for the definition of the word "world", you hold a death grip on "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ".

According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:

• if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
• The conclusion: Christ succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ failed in saving Nancy of the world.

So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of John
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world! (civic 1:29)		The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of Hebrews
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he ineffectively suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might ineffectually taste death for everyone like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God. (civic 2:9)		But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of Titus
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, even people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God but they enjoy salvation but they suffer punishment but they enjoy salvation-punishment (civic 2:11)		For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of Titus
But when the kindness and the love of mankind which includes God-displeasing sin-immersed self-willed under the wrath of God people like Nancy of God our Savior appeared (civic 3:4)		But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared (Titus 3:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Lord Jesus says "men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:19-20) in the immediately same conversation as John 3:16!

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of civic		The Word of God
For God so loved the world like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever loving the darkness hating the Light by self-will choosing to believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (civic 3:16)		For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

And so go your revilings against the precious Holy Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) as you illegally redefine believe as a work of man instead of the work of God again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of Timothy
Who will have all men to be saved, but God's will fails miserably with saving people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 civic 2:4)		Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book of Peter
The Lord breaks his promise because he is patient with you people like Nancy of the world who will never be a part of the Body of Christ, not wishing that any should perish but people like Nancy perish without ever coming to repentance. (2 civic 3:9)		The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Notice the phrase "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author, the First Book of John inspired by the glorious Holy Spirit.

You brought up 1 John 2:2 which shall be examined in a moment, and the other location is "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one, so current Christians are excluded from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of John
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing, Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for ones such as people like Nancy. (1 civic 2:2)		He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

So "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 includes exclusively the people that will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent before those people die, so "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 has a different meaning than "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19, but your heart destroys context for "the whole world", and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Crucially, you quoted where the Apostle declares THE LOVE OF CHRIST CONTROLS US! BEAUTIFUL CHRIST!!! But you free-willians absolve yourselves from being controlled by Christ.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book to the Corinthians
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died and now live in Christ, including people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing (2 civic 5:14)		For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died (2 Corinthians 5:14)

And you quoted 2 Corinthians 5:14 without your recognition of "and He died for all, so that those who live would no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose on their behalf" (2 Corinthians 5:15) thus your heart's destroy context for 2 Corinthians 5:14, and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

You quoted your Calvinist god Loraine Boettner, and his quote reinforces that your Free-willian Philosophy abounds in confusion.

We Christians have a God of order, for it is written "God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the holy ones" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your blanket statements after you quote your god Boettner errantly coupled with your use of scripture are traditions of men.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE WHO REDEEMS HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE!!!

 

[TomL]

As I explained to you, I do not plan to stop talking about these verses that you quote which you adulterate that demonstrate your thoughts that lead to Christ's failure atonement according to your traditions of men a.k.a. the Book of Free-willians. The verses to discuss are shown below.

You are simply spamming your views ignoring the harmony of scripture, context lexical data, and even the views of your own peers

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God causes me to visit each and every verse that you quoted.

And yet fail to address the point

As a reminder for you, for the definition of the word "world", you hold a death grip on "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ".

According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:

• if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
• The conclusion: Christ succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ failed in saving Nancy of the world.

So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

We free willians believe in scripture

Too bad you do not

John 12:47 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

The world obviously includes any who do not believe - do not keep his word

John 3:16–17 (NASB 2020) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.


God's love was for the world which he came to save (subjunctively) depending on the willingness to believe

John 3:14–18 (NASB 2020) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of John
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world! (civic 1:29)		The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture.

So do you affirm God takes away the sins of the world?

Lets see

The world

John 7:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

John 15:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

John 15:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 17:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

1 John 3:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

 

[civic]

You are simply spamming your views ignoring the harmony of scripture, context lexical data, and even the views of your own peers

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Anfd yeyt fail to address the point

We free willians believe in scripture

Too bad you do not

John 12:47 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

The world obviously includes any who do not believe - do not keep his word

John 3:16–17 (NASB 2020) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.


God's love was for the world which he came to save (subjunctively) depending on the willingness to believe

John 3:14–18 (NASB 2020) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.











So do you affirm God takes away the sins of the world?

Lets see

The world

John 7:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

John 15:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

John 15:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 17:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

1 John 3:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

Yes you have dismantled his strawman and his fatalistic/theistic determinism.

 

[Kermos]

Yes you have dismantled his strawman and his fatalistic/theistic determinism.

You wrote in reply to TomL's very recent post:

You are simply spamming your views ignoring the harmony of scripture, context lexical data, and even the views of your own peers

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


And yet fail to address the point

We free willians believe in scripture

Too bad you do not

John 12:47 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

The world obviously includes any who do not believe - do not keep his word

John 3:16–17 (NASB 2020) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.


God's love was for the world which he came to save (subjunctively) depending on the willingness to believe

John 3:14–18 (NASB 2020) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.











So do you affirm God takes away the sins of the world?

Lets see

The world

John 7:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

John 15:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

John 15:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 17:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

1 John 3:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

The two of you FAILED again to address the implications of people like Nancy upon your adulterations to Bible passages like John 1:29, Hebrews 2:9, Titus 2:11, Titus 3:4, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2, and 2 Corinthians 5:14 which you presented as your free-willian philosophy shifting sand (Matthew 7:21-27).

TomL, you brought up some of the same passages as if those passages which are already under discussion here, and the passages can be reviewed below.

People believing in Christ's failure atonement fail to address the implications of people like Nancy on their concept of who God is!

The Atonement has no limits, you have a false gospel and make Jesus and the Apostles liars.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

Loraine Boettner the world renown Calvinist theologian has stated on p. 59 of his book, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination,

"prove any one of them true and all of the others will follow as logical and necessary parts of the system. Prove any one of them false and the whole system must be abandoned."

1)I have already proven irresistible grace is not true with Acts 7:51

2)I have proven the atonement is not limited- John 1:20, 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 2 Pet 3:9 and 1 John 2:2

3)I have proven that election is not unconditional- whosoever will may come, that means all, everyone from numerous passages . John 1:12 John 3:16

Conclusion : tulip is a false gospel

hope this helps !!!

God causes me to visit each and every verse that you quoted, civic.

As a reminder for you, for the definition of the word "world", you hold a death grip on "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ".

According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:

• if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
• The conclusion: Christ succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ failed in saving Nancy of the world.

So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of John
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world! (civic 1:29)		The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of Hebrews
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he ineffectively suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might ineffectually taste death for everyone like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God. (civic and TomL 2:9)		But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of Titus
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, even people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God but they enjoy salvation but they suffer punishment but they enjoy salvation-punishment (civic 2:11)		For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of Titus
But when the kindness and the love of mankind which includes God-displeasing sin-immersed self-willed under the wrath of God people like Nancy of God our Savior appeared (civic 3:4)		But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared (Titus 3:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Lord Jesus says "men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:19-20) in the immediately same conversation as John 3:16!

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of civic		The Word of God
For God so loved the world like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever loving the darkness hating the Light by self-will choosing to believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (civic 3:16 and TomL 3:16)		For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

And so go your revilings against the precious Holy Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) as you illegally redefine believe as a work of man instead of the work of God again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of Timothy
Who will have all men to be saved, but God's will fails miserably with saving people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 civic 2:4 and 1 TomL 2:4)		Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book of Peter
The Lord breaks his promise because he is patient with you people like Nancy of the world who will never be a part of the Body of Christ, not wishing that any should perish but people like Nancy perish without ever coming to repentance. (2 civicTomL 3:9)		The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Notice the phrase "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author, the First Book of John inspired by the glorious Holy Spirit.

You brought up 1 John 2:2 which shall be examined in a moment, and the other location is "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one, so current Christians are excluded from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of John
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing, Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for ones such as people like Nancy. (1 TomLcivic 2:2)		He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

So "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 includes exclusively the people that will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent before those people die, so "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 has a different meaning than "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19, but your heart destroys context for "the whole world", and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Crucially, you quoted where the Apostle declares THE LOVE OF CHRIST CONTROLS US! BEAUTIFUL CHRIST!!! But you free-willians absolve yourselves from being controlled by Christ.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book to the Corinthians
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died and now live in Christ, including people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing (2 civic 5:14)		For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died (2 Corinthians 5:14)

And you, civic, quoted 2 Corinthians 5:14 without your recognition of "and He died for all, so that those who live would no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose on their behalf" (2 Corinthians 5:15) thus your heart's destroy context for 2 Corinthians 5:14, and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

You, civic, quoted your Calvinist god Loraine Boettner, and his quote reinforces that your Free-willian Philosophy abounds in confusion.

We Christians have a God of order, for it is written "God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the holy ones" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your blanket statements after you quote your god Boettner errantly coupled with your use of scripture are traditions of men.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE WHO REDEEMS HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE!!!

 

[TomL]

You wrote about:



The two of you FAILED again to address the implications of people like Nancy upon your adulterations to Bible passages like John 1:29, Hebrews 2:9, Titus 2:11, Titus 3:4, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2, and 2 Corinthians 5:14 which you presented as your free-willian philosophy shifting sand (Matthew 7:21-27).

Um that is utter nonsense

That accords perfectly with scripture

John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The world not believers only were the object of God's love

Christ was given on behalf of the world

So that those in the world who believe would be saved and those who do not believe would not be saved

You have not shown any inconsistency

You simply assume Christ's death of itself without faith in Christ saves. You never established any such thing

It may be asked: If atonement naturally and necessarily cancels guilt, why does not the vicarious atonement of Christ save all men indiscriminately, as the universalist contends? The substituted suffering of Christ being infinite is equal in value to the personal suffering of all mankind; why then are not all men upon the same footing and in the class of the saved, by virtue of it? The answer is because it is a natural impossibility. Vicarious atonement without faith in it is powerless to save. It is not the making of this atonement, but the trusting in it, that saves the sinner: “By faith are you saved” (Eph. 2:8); “he that believes shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). The making of this atonement merely satisfies the legal claims, and this is all that it does. If it were made but never imputed and appropriated, it would result in no salvation. A substituted satisfaction of justice without an act of trust in it would be useless to sinners. It is as naturally impossible that Christ’s death should save from punishment one who does not confide in it as that a loaf of bread should save from starvation a man who does not eat it. The assertion that because the atonement of Christ is sufficient for all men therefore no men are lost is as absurd as the assertion that because the grain produced in the year 1880 was sufficient to support the life of all men on the globe therefore no men died of starvation during that year. The mere fact that Jesus Christ made satisfaction for human sin, alone and of itself, will save no soul. Christ, conceivably, might have died precisely as he did and his death have been just as valuable for expiatory purposes as it is, but if his death had not been followed with the work of the Holy Spirit and the act of faith on the part of individual men, he would have died in vain.[1]

---

[1] William Greenough Thayer Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, ed. Alan W. Gomes, 3rd ed. (Phillipsburg, NJ: P & R Pub., 2003), 726.

TomL, you brought up some of the same passages as if those passages were not already under discussion here.

You never deal with the point

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Why in this verse Christ does not judge and bring eternal condemnation on those who do not believeat his first event

the reason is supplied by scripture by the conjunction

for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Christ does not judge the unbeliever at his first advent for he came not to judge the world

only if the unbeliever is a part of the world does this verse majke any sense



i

Unsaved people fail to address the implications of people like Nancy on their concept of who God is!

You provide no proof of that and simply spam your thought while ignoring rebuttal

You are simply spamming your views ignoring the harmony of scripture, context lexical data, and even the views of your own peers

Scripture shows christ died for all, the world, all men etc

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


And yet fail to address the point

We free willians believe in scripture

Too bad you do not

John 12:47 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

The world obviously includes any who do not believe - do not keep his word

John 3:16–17 (NASB 2020) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.


God's love was for the world which he came to save (subjunctively) depending on the willingness to believe

John 3:14–18 (NASB 2020) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

So do you affirm God takes away the sins of the world?

Lets see

The world

John 7:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

John 15:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

John 15:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 17:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

1 John 3:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

are you going to argue these are believers?

 

[civic]

You wrote in reply to TomL's very recent post:



The two of you FAILED again to address the implications of people like Nancy upon your adulterations to Bible passages like John 1:29, Hebrews 2:9, Titus 2:11, Titus 3:4, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2, and 2 Corinthians 5:14 which you presented as your free-willian philosophy shifting sand (Matthew 7:21-27).

TomL, you brought up some of the same passages as if those passages which are already under discussion here, and the passages can be reviewed below.

People believing in Christ's failure atonement fail to address the implications of people like Nancy on their concept of who God is!



God causes me to visit each and every verse that you quoted, civic.

As a reminder for you, for the definition of the word "world", you hold a death grip on "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ".

According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:

• if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
• The conclusion: Christ succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ failed in saving Nancy of the world.

So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of John
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world! (civic 1:29)		The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of Hebrews
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he ineffectively suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might ineffectually taste death for everyone like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God. (civic and TomL 2:9)		But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of Titus
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, even people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God but they enjoy salvation but they suffer punishment but they enjoy salvation-punishment (civic 2:11)		For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of Titus
But when the kindness and the love of mankind which includes God-displeasing sin-immersed self-willed under the wrath of God people like Nancy of God our Savior appeared (civic 3:4)		But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared (Titus 3:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Lord Jesus says "men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:19-20) in the immediately same conversation as John 3:16!

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of civic		The Word of God
For God so loved the world like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever loving the darkness hating the Light by self-will choosing to believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (civic 3:16 and TomL 3:16)		For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

And so go your revilings against the precious Holy Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) as you illegally redefine believe as a work of man instead of the work of God again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of Timothy
Who will have all men to be saved, but God's will fails miserably with saving people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 civic 2:4 and 1 TomL 2:4)		Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book of Peter
The Lord breaks his promise because he is patient with you people like Nancy of the world who will never be a part of the Body of Christ, not wishing that any should perish but people like Nancy perish without ever coming to repentance. (2 civicTomL 3:9)		The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Notice the phrase "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author, the First Book of John inspired by the glorious Holy Spirit.

You brought up 1 John 2:2 which shall be examined in a moment, and the other location is "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one, so current Christians are excluded from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of John
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing, Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for ones such as people like Nancy. (1 TomLcivic 2:2)		He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

So "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 includes exclusively the people that will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent before those people die, so "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 has a different meaning than "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19, but your heart destroys context for "the whole world", and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Crucially, you quoted where the Apostle declares THE LOVE OF CHRIST CONTROLS US! BEAUTIFUL CHRIST!!! But you free-willians absolve yourselves from being controlled by Christ.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book to the Corinthians
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died and now live in Christ, including people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing (2 civic 5:14)		For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died (2 Corinthians 5:14)

And you, civic, quoted 2 Corinthians 5:14 without your recognition of "and He died for all, so that those who live would no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose on their behalf" (2 Corinthians 5:15) thus your heart's destroy context for 2 Corinthians 5:14, and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

You, civic, quoted your Calvinist god Loraine Boettner, and his quote reinforces that your Free-willian Philosophy abounds in confusion.

We Christians have a God of order, for it is written "God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the holy ones" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your blanket statements after you quote your god Boettner errantly coupled with your use of scripture are traditions of men.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE WHO REDEEMS HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE!!!

the adulteration of adding to Gods word above and changing the meaning of biblical words to suit your fatalistic, theistic, deterministic, false theology. Solomon, John and Moses warned us about those who do such things. deut 4:2, prov 30:6, rev 22:18.

 

[TomL]

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of Hebrews
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he ineffectively suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might ineffectually taste death for everyone like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God. (civic and TomL 2:9)		But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again.

Lets see

Luke 22:14–22 (KJV 1900) — 14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. 21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. 22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

Seems Christ was given for and shed his blood even for Judas

apparently you are not a believer of scripture

 

[TomL]

The Book of Free-willians		The Book of Titus
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, even people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God but they enjoy salvation but they suffer punishment but they enjoy salvation-punishment (civic 2:11)		For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11)

As no one here holds all people are saved you are just bearing false witness

You simply fail to understand salvation is a gift which must be accepted through faith in Christ

Are you going to argue all men equal some men

 

[civic]

As no one here holds all people are saved you are just bearing false witness

You simply fail to understand salvation is a gift which must be accepted through faith in Christ

Are you going to argue all men equal some men

It's the twisting the word of God into a pretzel we are witnessing with the doctrine of fatalistic theistic determinism. No wonder the church councils called it anathema.