An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
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civic
Well-known member
That’s tulip in a nutshell
Nothing new here you simply repeat whatever you have stated in the past garnishing it with your opinion and distortions
Sorry you assume an interpretation consistent with your theology while ignoring context and the harmony of scripture
Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context so they can read their theology into the text
The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28
John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”
In context its meaning is that which God requires of man
What are we to do?
The same question the Jews convicted by the words of Peter uttered
Acts 2:37 (NASB 2020) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what are we to do?”
The answer is never nothing or God must do it no
You must believe
again
John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life
in context it is to believe on him
John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.
John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”
Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God
John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
Jesus tells them they must believe
John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?
The jews understand him to be telling them they must believe.
An understanding confirmed by Christ
John 6:32–40 (NASB 2020) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe. 37 Everything that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
He reiterates one must believe
He placed their failure to believe not on the Father for not having given them faith, but upon themselves. They did not believe
affirming again one believe (active voice) on him to have eternal life
Believe a word which appears 101 times in th\re KJV new testament book of John
And never once does he state the Father effectually causes you to believe as per your theology
They must believe
An understanding confirmed by scripture
Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 2:37 (NASB 2020) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what are we to do?”
Acts 2:38 (NASB 2020) — 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
You have addressed none of this and just assume an interpretation consistent with your theology
depending on the tradition of men
yet even those of your own tradition oppose your interpretation because they consider context
and so even Calvinist commentators agree with this obvious reading
John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)
This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.
Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you
Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.
Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.
Three Calvinist sources rebut your understanding even the namesake of your theology and I can easily supply more
Yes it is. It is kind of amazing he would attempt to deny that
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Are you admitting you need to improve your reading comprehension?
No I am saying you do not even comprehend the doctrine you espouse
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I'm going with the reading comprehension thing. Think you can answer my question, now?
Let me ask you this: What is the opposite of inability? And how does one get to the opposite of inability? Just wondering if that reminds you of a scripture somewhere. Hint: It has nothing to do with CAUSING anything.
Well you are going wrong and failing to understand the doctrine you espouse
ability is the opposite
and it is proven here
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?
Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief
Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed
Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Jesus clearly states he hides truth for some as otherwise they would repent and be forgiven
Mark 4:10–12 (ESV) — 10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that “ ‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’ ”
unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Mat 11:21-24 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe
Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?
John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.
John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony
John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief
2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.
As is the preaching of it.
Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?
Miracles have power to bring about faith
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Nice copy and paste, and ignoring my question. Not going to play with you anymore. Carry on.
Johann
Well-known member
Don't give up or concede-there are always things to learn.
Which you failed to address and ability is still the opposite of inability
civic
Well-known member
Ditto
The Calvinist are simply not going to address those verses
You are not Lord Jesus, my God and Christ, so I'm not listening to nor obeying your "give it up". Jesus has me here proclaiming Truth (John 14:6), and I thank my Lord!
I am unlike you who listens to your god Calvin, your "Calvinist commentary", your "Calvinist traditions of men" that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
Your contrived context is false about John 1:10-13, amd the following is proof.
The deceptions of your gods, such as your Lord Arndt whose word you take as your own (proof post #2,141), do not refute the Truth (John 14:6) except in your heart - the comments of your gods are NOT the Word of God.
"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:
The man received a punch to his face dislocating his septum - not by choice - but in the fury of his assailant's surprise attack.
The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.
A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.
Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.
"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:
1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)
There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".
The Greek word ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive) lexicon definition is "receive", and the specific instance of ἔλαβον used by the Apostle John in John 1:12 is an active indicative aorist verb in the third person; therefore, the word ἔλαβον conveys the active concept of "joyfully" by the recipient of "receive" with the "receive" being initiated and caused by the the source, not the recipient, but truly God is the cause (John 1:12-13), so John conveys "joyfully receive" is the active meaning for ἔλαβον.
In the Greek lexicon etymology, "to be seized by" is found for ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive).
"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:
The Apostle John wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).
The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.
The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.
The ones who received Christ are the ones "who were born" "of God".
Let's follow John's blessed chain linking these people:
- John starts with the full population of the planet "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him" (John 1:10) as he builds toward the source of holiness which is "born of God" (John 1:13).
- John narrows the population to Israel only "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11).
- John further narrows the focus to a sub-population of Israel "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12)
- John equates the population of "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12) with the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) as he builds toward the source of holiness, that is, "born of God" (John 1:13).
- John further equates the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) with the population of "believe in His name" increasing tempo about the source of holiness being"born of God" (John 1:13).
- John arrives at the source of holiness for every single one of us saints (holy ones) which is being "born of God" (John 1:13).
John's Good Message narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then further narrowing onward, so we can expand the focus starting with John's primary foundational point moving toward the secondary larger point and then the tertiary broader point and so on.
John's primary foundational point is "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) which results in John's secondary point of "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) and "children of God" (John 1:12, John 3:3-8) and "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9) which has implications for John's tertiary point "His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11) which arrives at John's opening, broadest point which is the fact that "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) does not include everybody in "the world" (John 1:10).
John has the "born of God" as the first and primary position.
Each of these are exactly the same people:
- "many as received Him"
- "children of God"
- "believe in His name"
- "born of God"
John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to receive Jesus.
John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to receive Jesus.
John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to believe in Jesus.
John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to believe in Jesus.
Again, here is the passage:
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).
"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation of the Word of God inquired "Brethren, what shall we do" in Acts 2:14-37)
Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.
The word "receive" means "unavoidably enters"; on the other hand, the word "accept" means "allowed to enter".
The work of "accept" is specifically disallowed in the passage with "nor of the will of man" because man causes not man to be "born of God" nor man causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", nor man causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).
The grammatical sense of the word "receive" indicates Christ "unavoidably enters" a joyfully receptive person according to the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) because the Apostle indicates the "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", whom are the ones that God causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).
About "receiving":
Man is not the cause of man receiving Christ (Luke 12:57).
God is the cause of man receiving Christ (John 1:12-13).
We Christians actively in thankfulness receive Christ!
About "believing":
Man is not the cause of man believing in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-10).
God is the cause of man believing in Christ (John 6:29).
We Christians joyfully believe in Christ!
All glory to King Jesus reigning on His Throne in the eternal Kingdom of God for His Salvation of man!!! Amen!!!
We Christians receive saving belief/faith from God our Savior (John 1:12-13, John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10)!
Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LORD OF MY SALVATION!!!
Johann
Well-known member
Unavoidably enters? Allowed to enter?
on. Gr. eis. Eric Sauer points out that "the word faith is associated with the Person of Jesus Christ in a fourfold manner. (1) We believe on Him, literally "into" Him (Gr. eis). This means that He is the object of our faith, its living goal, its magnet. Faith is always in motion towards Him" (From Eternity to Eternity, p. 45). Sauer notes the significance of other Greek prepositions and grammatical structure related to saving faith: (2) We believe in Him (Col_1:4), Gr. en, denoting where, as a determined place, our faith is placed: we are in Him, "in Christ" (Rom_8:1 note). (3) We believe upon (Gr. epi) Him, Act_16:31, Act_2:38 note. (4) We believe Him (2Ti_1:12), "faith" in Greek is joined to the dative case of the person trusted, signifying "He is the person to whom our faith refers and in whom personally it centers" (From Eternity to Eternity, p. 46).
1 "ελαβον" (received) is a verb in the aorist tense, indicative mood, and active voice.
2 "εδωκεν" (gave) is a verb in the aorist tense, indicative mood, and active voice.
οσοι δε ελαβον αυτον εδωκεν αυτοις εξουσιαν τεκνα θεου γενεσθαι τοις πιστευουσιν εις το ονομα αυτου
Syntax: The structure of the sentence involves a series of clauses that convey the idea of receiving authority to become children of God through faith in Jesus Christ.
Morphologies:
"οσοι" (those who) is a relative pronoun in the nominative case.
The meaning of "λαμβάνω" (lambanó) is "to take" or "to receive." This Greek verb signifies the action of taking or receiving something. It can also imply accepting, getting, or laying hold of something. The lexical definition of "λαμβάνω" aligns with the idea of actively receiving or taking possession of something, whether tangible or abstract, in the context of the Greek language.
"αυτον" (him) is a personal pronoun in the accusative case.
"εδωκεν" (gave) is a verb in the aorist tense, indicative mood, and active voice.
"αυτοις" (to them) is a personal pronoun in the dative case.
"εξουσιαν" (authority) is a noun in the accusative case.
"τεκνα" (children) is a noun in the accusative case.
"θεου" (of God) is a genitive noun.
"γενεσθαι" (to become) is an infinitive verb.
"τοις πιστευουσιν" (to those who believe) is a dative participle.
"εις το ονομα αυτου" (in the name of him) is a prepositional phrase.
Context: The verse emphasizes that through faith in Jesus Christ, believers receive the authority to become children of God.
Application: This passage highlights the central role of faith in Jesus Christ as the means through which individuals receive the authority to be adopted as children of God, emphasizing the transformative power of faith in the Christian context.
How do we "receive?" is a verb in the aorist tense, indicative mood, and active voice. You are aware a Verb is a "doing"
In the Active Voice, the subject is the one performing the action of the verb.
This is very similar to how the Active Voice works in English. For example, "John hit the ball" - John (the subject) is the one performing the action.
Examples of Active Voice verbs in the Bible include:
"I will build My Church" (Matthew 16:18) - Christ is the one doing the building.
"I will baptize you with the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 3:11) - Christ is the one doing the baptizing.
The Active Voice contrasts with the Passive Voice, where the subject receives the action of the verb, rather than performing it.
So in summary, the Active Voice in biblical Greek grammar indicates that the subject is the one carrying out the action described by the verb, which is the most common verbal voice used in the New Testament. This aligns closely with how the Active Voice functions in English.
The simple verb of the compound παρέλαβον in Joh_1:11. The meaning of the two verbs is substantially the same (so Alford, De Wette, and apparently Meyer), though some recognize a difference, as Milligan and Moulton, who render παρέλαβον accepted, and ἔλαβον received, and say that “the former lays emphasis upon the will that consented (or refused) to receive, while the latter brings before us the possession gained: so that the full meaning is, As many as by accepting Him, received Him.” For the use of the simple verb, see Joh_5:43; Joh_13:20; Joh_19:6.
VWS
As many as received him (hosoi elabon auton). Effective aorist active indicative of lambanō “as many as did receive him,” in contrast with hoi idioi just before, exceptional action on the part of the disciples and other believers.
RWP
1) "But as many as received him," (hosoi de elabon auton) "Yet as many as received him," or took him, the Son of God, as the Savior of the world who was to come. To receive Him, Jesus Christ, is identical with "believing on His name," or "calling on the name of the Lord," Rom_10:9-10; Rom_10:13.
received
Mt 10:40 “He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me.
Mt 18:5 Whoever receives one such little child in my name receives me,
Col 2:6 As therefore you received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in him,
to them
*Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God.
*2Co 6:17-18 [17] Therefore “‘Come out from among them, and be separate,’ says the Lord. ‘Touch no unclean thing. I will receive you. [18] I will be to you a Father. You will be to me sons and daughters,’ says the Lord Almighty.”
*Ga 3:26 For you are all children of God, through faith in Christ Jesus.
*1Jn 3:1 See how great a love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God! For this cause the world doesn’t know us, because it didn’t know him.
Is 56:5 I will give them in my house and within my walls a memorial and a name better than of sons and of daughters. I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off.
Je 3:19 “But I said, ‘How I desire to put you among the children, and give you a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the armies of the nations!’ and I said, ‘You shall call me “My Father”, and shall not turn away from following me.’
Ho 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel will be as the sand of the sea, which can’t be measured or counted; and it will come to pass that, in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’
Ga 4:6 And because you are children, God sent out the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, “Abba, Father!”
2Pe 1:4 by which he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.
even
Jn 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in his name, observing his signs which he did.
Jn 3:18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God.
Jn 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.
Mt 12:21 In his name, the nations will hope.”
Ac 3:16 By faith in his name, his name has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which is through him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
1Jn 3:23 This is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, even as he commanded.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has the life. He who doesn’t have God’s Son doesn’t have the life.
Is 53:1-2 [1] Who has believed our message? To whom has Yahweh’s arm been revealed? [2] For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no good looks or majesty. When we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Mt 13:23 What was sown on the good ground, this is he who hears the word and understands it, who most certainly bears fruit and produces, some one hundred times as much, some sixty, and some thirty.”
Mt 13:38 the field is the world, the good seeds are the children of the Kingdom, and the darnel weeds are the children of the evil one.
Mk 4:8 Others fell into the good ground and yielded fruit, growing up and increasing. Some produced thirty times, some sixty times, and some one hundred times as much.”
Mk 9:12 He said to them, “Elijah indeed comes first, and restores all things. How is it written about the Son of Man, that he should suffer many things and be despised?
Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who disbelieves will be condemned.
Lk 8:8 Other fell into the good ground and grew and produced one hundred times as much fruit.” As he said these things, he called out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”
Jn 3:12 If I told you earthly things and you don’t believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
Jn 3:15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jn 3:36 One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won’t see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
Jn 7:5 For even his brothers didn’t believe in him.
Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God. For this cause you don’t hear, because you are not of God.”
Jn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Ac 3:2 A certain man who was lame from his mother’s womb was being carried, whom they laid daily at the door of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask gifts for the needy of those who entered into the temple.
Ac 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Ac 18:27 When he had determined to pass over into Achaia, the brothers encouraged him; and wrote to the disciples to receive him. When he had come, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace;
Ro 5:11 Not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Ro 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy.
Ro 10:10 For with the heart one believes resulting in righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made resulting in salvation.
Ga 4:5 that he might redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as children.
Ga 4:31 So then, brothers, we are not children of a servant, but of the free woman.
Eph 1:5 having predestined us for adoption as children through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his desire,
Eph 2:8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 5:1 Be therefore imitators of God, as beloved children.
Php 1:29 Because it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer on his behalf,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
1Ti 1:15 The saying is faithful and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we saw, and our hands touched, concerning the Word of life
1Jn 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God. Whoever loves the Father also loves the child who is born of him.
1Jn 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
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civic
Well-known member
wrong again
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2983: λαμβάνω
λαμβάνω; imperfect ἐλάμβανον; future λήψομαι (L T Tr WH λήμψομαι, an Alexandrian form; see under the word Mu); 2 aorist ἔλαβον (2 person plural once (in Tdf. 7 after B*) ἐλαβατε, 1 John 2:27; see references under the word ἀπέρχομαι, at the beginning), imperative λαβέ (Revelation 10:8f), not λαβέ (Winers Grammar, § 6, 1 a.; Buttmann, 62 (54)); perfect εἴληφα, 2 person ἐοιληφας (and ἐιληφες(Revelation 11:17 WH; see κοπιάω); on the use of the perfect interchangeably with an aorist (Revelation 5:7; Revelation 8:5, etc.) cf. Buttmann, 197 (170); Winer's Grammar, 272 (255); Jebb in Vincent and Dickson's Modern Greek, 2nd edition, Appendix, §§ 67, 68), participle εἰληφώς; (passive, present participle λαμβανόμενος; perfect 3 person singular ἐιληπται, John 8:4 WH marginal reading (rejected section)); the Sept. hundreds of times for לָקַח, very often for נָשָׂא, also for לָכַד and several times for אָחַז; (from Homer down);
I. to take, i. e.:
1. to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it: absolutely, where the context shows what is taken, Matthew 26:26; Mark 14:22; (τόν) ἄρτον, Matthew 26:26; Acts 27:35; τό βιβλίον, Revelation 5:7-9 (see Buttmann, and Winer's Grammar, as above); μαχαιρον (grasp, lay hand to), Matthew 26:52, and in many other examples After a circumstantial style of description (see ἀνίστημι, II. 1 c.) in use from Homer down (cf. Passow, under the word C.; (Liddell and Scott, under the word I. 11); Matthiae, § 558, Anm. 2; (Winer's Grammar, § 65, 4 c.)), the participle λαβών with the accusative of the object is placed before an active verb where it does not always seem to us necessary to mention the act of taking (as λαβών κυσε χεῖρα (cf. our 'he took and kissed'), Homer, Odyssey 24, 398): Matthew 13:31, 33; Matthew 17:27; Mark 9:36; Luke 13:19, 21; John 12:3; Acts 2:23 Rec.; ; λαβών τό αἷμα ... τόν λαόν ἐρράντισε (equivalent to τῷ αἵματι ... τόνλαόν ἐρράντισε), Hebrews 9:19; or the verb λαβεῖν in a finite form followed by καίprecedes, as ἔλαβε τόν Ἰησοῦν καί ἐμαστίγωσεν, John 19:1; add, John 19:40; John 21:13; Revelation 8:5; also λαβεῖν τόν ἄρτον ... καί βαλεῖν etc., Matthew 15:26; Mark 7:27; ἔλαβον ... καί ἐποίησαν, John 19:23. metaphorically, ἀφορμήν(see the word, 2), Romans 7:8, 11; ὑπόδειγμα τίνος (the genitive of the thing) τινα, to take one as an example of a thing, for imitation, James 5:10; to take in order to wear, τά ἱμάτια, i. e. to put on: John 13:12 (ἐσθῆτα, ὑποδήματα, Herodotus 2, 37; 4, 78); μορφήν δούλου, Philippians 2:7. to take in the mouth: something to eat, John 13:30; Acts 9:19; 1 Timothy 4:4 (cf. Latincibum capio, to take food); to take anything to drink, i. e. drink, swallow, ὕδωρ, Revelation 22:17; to drink, τό ὄξος, John 19:30; οὐκ ἔλαβε, he did not take it, i. e. refused to drink it, Mark 15:23. to take up a thing to be carried; to take upon oneself: τόν σταυρόν αὐτοῦ, Matthew 10:38 (L marginal reading ἄρῃ); to take with one for future use: ἄρτους, Matthew 16:5, 7; λαμπάδας, Matthew 25:1; ἔλαιον μεθ' ἑαυτῶν, ibid. 3.
2. to take in order to carry away: without the notion of violence, τάς ἀσθενείας, i. e. to remove, take away, Matthew 8:17; with the notion of violence, to seize, take away forcibly: Matthew 5:40; Revelation 3:11; τήν εἰρήνην ἐκ (Rec. ἀπό (WHbrackets ἐκ)) τῆς γῆς, Revelation 6:4.
3. to take what is one's own, to take to oneself, to make one's own;
a. to claim, procure, for oneself: τί, John 3:27 (opposed to what is given); ἑαυτῷ βασιλείαν, Luke 19:12; with the accusative of the person to associate with one' s self as companion, attendant, etc.: λαβών τήν σπεῖραν ἔρχεται, taking with him the band of soldiers (whose aid he might use) he comes, John 18:3(στρατόν λαβών ἔρχεται, Sophocles Trach. 259); λαμβάνειν γυανικα, to take i. e. marry a wife, Mark 12:19-22; Luke 20:28-31 (Genesis 4:19, etc.; Xenophon, Cyril 8, 4, 16; Bur. Alc. 324; with ἑαυτῷ added, Genesis 4:19; Genesis 6:2, and often).
b. of that which when taken is not let go, like the Latincapio, equivalent to to seize, lay hold of, apprehend: τινα, Matthew 21:35, 39; Mark 12:3, 8, and very often in Greek writings from Homer down; tropically, τί, i. e. to get possession of, obtain, a thing, Philippians 3:12 (cf. Winers Grammar, 276 (259)); metaphorically, of affections or evils seizing on a man (Latincapio, occupo): τινα ἔλαβεν ἔκστασις, Luke 5:26; φόβος, Luke 7:16 (very often so even in Homer, as τρόμος ἐλλαβε γυια, Iliad 3, 34; με ἵμερος αἴρει, 3, 446; χόλος, 4, 23; the Sept. Exodus 15:15; Wis. 11:13 (12)); πνεῦμα (i. e., a demon), Luke 9:39; πειρασμός, 1 Corinthians 10:13.
c. to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fishermen, etc.): οὐδέν, Luke 5:5; tropically, τινα, to circumvent one by fraud, 2 Corinthians 11:20; with δόλῳadded, 2 Corinthians 12:16.
d. to take to oneself, lay hold upon, take possession of, i. e. to appropriate to oneself: ἑαυτῷ τήν τιμήν, Hebrews 5:4.
e. Latincapto, catch at, reach after, strive to obtain: τί παρά τίνος (the genitive of person), John 5:34, 41; alternating with ζητεῖν, John 5:44.
f. to take a thing due according to agreement or law, to collect, gather (tribute): τά δίδραχμα, Matthew 17:24; τέλη ἀπό τίνος, 25; δεκάτας, Hebrews 7:8f; καρπούς, Matthew 21:34; παρά τῶν γεωργῶν ἀπό τοῦ καρποῦ, Mark 12:2.
4. to take i. e. to admit, receive: τινα ῤαπίσμασιν, Mark 14:65 L T Tr WH (cf. Latinverberibus aliquem accipere), but see βάλλω, 1; τινα εἰς τά ἰδίᾳ, unto his own home (see ἴδιος, 1 b.), John 19:27; εἰς οἰκίαν, 2 John 1:10; εἰς τό πλοῖον, John 6:21. to receive what is offered; not to refuse or reject: τινα, one, in order to obey him, John 1:12; John 5:43; John 13:20; τί, properly, to receive, Matthew 27:6; tropically: τόν λόγον, to admit or receive into the mind, Matthew 13:20; Mark 4:16(for which in Luke 8:13 δέχονται; τήν μαρτυρίαν, to believe the testimony, John 3:11, 32f; τά ῤήματα τίνος, John 12:48; John 17:8. In imitation of the Hebrew פָּנִיםנָשָׂא (on the various senses of which in the O. T. cf. Gesenius, Thesaurus, ii., p. 915f), πρόσωπον λαμβάνω, to receive a person, give him access to oneself, i. e. to regard anyone's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something: used of partiality (A. V. to accept the person), Luke 20:21; with ἀνθρώπου added, Galatians 2:6 (Leviticus 19:15; Malachi 2:9, etc.; θαυμάζειν τό πρόσωπον, Deuteronomy 10:17; Job 32:22); (cf. Lightfoot on Galatians, the passage cited).
5. to take, equivalent to to choose, select: τινα ἐκ τινων, passive Hebrews 5:1.
6. To the signification to take may be referred that use, frequent in Greek authors also (cf. Passow, under the word, B.
d. at the end; (Liddell and Scott, II. 3)), by which λαμβάνειν joined to a substantive forms a periphrasis of the verb whose idea is expressed by the substantive: λαμβάνειν ἀρχήν to take beginning, equivalent to ἄρχομαι to begin, Hebrews 2:3 (Polybius 1, 12, 9, and often; Aelian v. h. 2, 28; 12, 53, and in other authors); λήθην τίνος, to forget, 2 Peter 1:9 (Josephus, Antiquities 2, 6, 10; 9, 1; 4, 8, 44; Aelian v. h. 3, 18 under the end; h. anim. 4, 35); ὑπόμνησιν τίνος, to be reminded of a thing, 2 Timothy 1:5; περιαν τίνος, to prove anything, i. e. either to make trial of: ἧς namely, θαλάσσης, which they attempted to pass through, Hebrews 11:29; or to have trial of, to experience: also with the genitive of the thing, Hebrews 11:36(in both senses often also in classical Greek; see πεῖρα, and Bleek, Br. a. d. Hebrews 2:2, p. 811); συμβούλιον λαμβάνειν, to take counsel, equivalent to συμβουλεύεσθαι, to deliberate (a combination in imitation apparently of the Latin phraseconsilium capere, although that signifies to form a plan, to resolve): Matthew 12:14; Matthew 22:15; Matthew 27:1, 7; Matthew 28:12; θάρσος, to take, receive, courage, Acts 28:15; τό χάραγμα τίνος, equivalent to χάρσσομαι τί, to receive the mark of, i. e. let oneself be marked or stamped with: Revelation 14:9, 11; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:4.
II. to receive (what is given); to gain, get, obtain: absolutely, opposed to αἰτεῖν, Matthew 7:8; Luke 11:10; John 16:24; opposed to διδόναι, Acts 20:35; Matthew 10:8; with the accusative of the thing, Matthew 20:9; Mark 10:30; (Luke 18:30 L text WH text Tr marginal reading); John 7:39; Acts 2:38; Acts 10:43; Romans 1:5; Romans 5:11; 1 Corinthians 2:12; 1 Corinthians 9:24; 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 3:14; Hebrews 9:15; ( R G, see ἐπαγγελία, 2 b.; cf. Winer's Grammar, 237 (222)); James 1:12; James 5:7; 1 Peter 4:10; Revelation 4:11; Revelation 5:12, and many other examples; μισθόν, Matthew 10:41; John 4:36; 1 Corinthians 3:8, 14; ἐλεημοσύνην, Acts 3:3; ἔλεος, Hebrews 4:16; τόπον ἀπολογίας, Acts 25:16; τήνἐπισκοπήν, Acts 1:20; διάδοχον, Acts 24:27 (successorem accipio, Pliny, epistles 9, 13); τό ἱκανόν παρά τίνος (the genitive of person), Acts 17:9 (see ἱκανός, a. at the end); of punishments: κρίμα, Matthew 23:14-13Rec.; Mark 12:40 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 183 (172)); Luke 20:47 James 3:1; with the dative incommodi added, ἑαυτῷ, Romans 13:2 (δίκην, Herodotus 1, 115; Euripides, Bacch. 1312; ποινας, Euripides, Tro. 360). οἰκοδομήν, to receive edifying, equivalent to ὀικοδομοῦμαι, 1 Corinthians 14:5; περιτομήν, equivalent to περιτέμνομαι, John 7:23; τί ἐκ τιονς, John 1:16; ἐξ ἀναστάσεως τούς νεκρούς, substantially equivalent to to receive, get back, Hebrews 11:35 (see ἐκ, II. 6); ἐκ, a part of a thing (see ἐκ, II. 9), Revelation 18:4; τί παρά τίνος (the genitive of person) (Luke 6:34 T Tr text WH); John 10:18; Acts 2:33; Acts 3:5; Acts 20:24; Acts 26:10; James 1:7; 1 John 3:22 R G; 2 John 1:4; Revelation 2:28 (); ἀπό τίνος (the genitive of person), 1 John 2:27; ( L T Tr WH); on the difference between παρά and ἀπό τίνος λαμβάνειν, cf. Winers Grammar, 370 (347) note; (Buttmann, § 147, 5; yet see Lightfoot on Galatians 1:12); ὑπό τίνος, 2 Corinthians 11:24; πῶς εἴληφας, how thou hast received by instruction in the gospel, i. e. hast learned, Revelation 3:3. The verb λαμβάνω does not occur in the Epistles to the Thessalonians, Philemon, Titus, nor in the Epistle of Jude. [COMPARE: ἀναλαμβάνω, ἀντιλαμβάνω, συν(αντιλαμβάνω (λαμβάνομαι), ἀπολαμβάνω, ἐπιλαμβάνω, καταλαμβάνω, μεταλαμβάνω, παραλαμβάνω, συνπαραλαμβάνω, προλαμβάνω, προσλαμβάνω, προσλαμβάνω, συνλαμβάνω, συνπεριλαμβάνω, ὑπολαμβάνω. SYNONYM: see δέχομαι, at the end]
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
The above is a straw man since he is not a calvinist. He uses Calvin and calvinists theologians against the calvinist poster on the forum. He always has always will since he has been doing that for years on other forums.
How do I know this to be true?
I was a calvinist for many years and use to debate with him all of the time. @TomL
hope this helps !!!
True
That poster simply rejects all evidence which is contrary to his view. He wants to label citiations of support as a form of worship. Sseeing as he only puts foward his own opinion as support by that criteria he worships self
Newsflash I am not the calvinist here you are
Again you simply ignore the facts
first you appeal to passive uses of the word receive
ignoring the fact receive is active in John 1:12
This was pointed out but you simply ignore it
just as you ignored multiple citiations from the lexicons and other facts as was p;osted previouskly
You address not a one
You failed to address parallel text
you ignored the fact that you commit a basic error of hermeneutic by appealing to non-parallel contexts
You ignored the lexicons while appealing to strongs
but it was an incomplete disingenuous citing of strongs which simply left off support for my position
By your criteria the truncated deceptive appeal to strongs indicate your lord
you additionally failed to address my argument seen above
but most of all you ignored scripture for the verse itself defines the word
John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12 (LSB) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Further as i argued and you ignored
Your interpretation has men being born again by having Christ indwell them before receiving the right to be born again
receiving the right to become a child of God is to receive the right to be born again
one receiving that right by receiving believing on Christ
In short you simply repeat the same failed arguments while failing to address the rebuttal of them
A rather disingenuous and insufficient methodology
