Runningman
Active Member
Since we know that the angel of the Lord isn't God in Zechariah 1, we know that Jacob didn't wrestle with God. It literally says he wrestled an angel and you can't see it.
All Claims of The Son's Deity
- Thread starter Johann
- Start date
Maybe you can follow me some time and we can help improve your reading comprehension.
Runningman
Active Member
Summary of Mikes nonsense:
God says He isn't a man, Mike says God is a man.
God isn't an angel, Mike says God is an angel.
God never said He would become a man, Mike disagrees.
God is explicitly identified as the Father and creator, Mike imagines God is a trinity.
The Bible never says God is a trinity, Mike imagines things that the Bible never says.
God is a person, Mike denies God is a person.
Runningman
Active Member
You wouldn't agree with the results. You reject the literal pain text reading of basically everything the Bible says.
Yes, the Father makes known to us that the Son Jesus is God. (Heb 1:8,9)
Do the Father's testimony that the eternal life is in His son, true or not?
Then who's the eternal life in 1John 5:20?
You can make the Father not telling the truth, by your dishonest answer.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
Nope. Just your confusion of ideas.
The oldest manuscripts I mean was the papyrus 66 and papyrus 75, see it in the N7 below.(P66P75)
I also quoted Westcott and Hort's "The New Testament in The Original Greek," with same rendition.
It's not a translation but in Greek.
Here, Updated American Standard Version+, again is of the same context with note N7, and proves that it was recorded as the "original words." Yes, there are variant readings but was not described as original wordings.
(UASV+)John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten GodN7 who is in the bosom of the Father,N8 that one has made him fully known.
N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).
Peterlag
Active Member
I commented on this on page 2,688. Did you see it?
Yes, I see it and already explained.
What I presented is from "original wordings" I highlighted blue below.
And what you've presented in 2,688 are described "variant reading" I highlighted green below but is not described as original wordings.
This presentation is about "original words" vs "variant reading." I hope now, it's being understood.
N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).
Peterlag
Active Member
The problem with me is I only read English. And I see the oldest English translations say son. The newer ones have God and I believe that's because the translators are trinity people adding their opinions.
I quote verses and references, they are not my opinion.
Yes, the oldest English translation, described as "variant reading."
While the Greek were English translations derived from, says "only-begotten God" as original wordings.
We will be really misled if we just rely to paraphrase translations, the product of the translators thoughts not from the original wordings of the Bible.
Runningman
Active Member
Glad to know you agree with this now.
John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
dwight92070
Active Member
Luke 5:1 "Now it happened that while the crowd was pressing around Him and listening to the word of God, ..."
Did you catch that? Luke is saying that Jesus' words were the very words of God Himself. Every time Jesus spoke, we are "hearing" God speak.
Sure, I can hear you scoffers say, "Well, what about when WE speak the word of God? Does that make US God?"
That's a silly question. First of all, YES, if we were supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit, if we were The Word which became flesh, then, yes, we would be God. But we're not. BUT HE WAS AND HE IS.
Did you catch that? Luke is saying that Jesus' words were the very words of God Himself. Every time Jesus spoke, we are "hearing" God speak.
Sure, I can hear you scoffers say, "Well, what about when WE speak the word of God? Does that make US God?"
That's a silly question. First of all, YES, if we were supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit, if we were The Word which became flesh, then, yes, we would be God. But we're not. BUT HE WAS AND HE IS.
Runningman
Active Member
Peterlag
Active Member
I did not say anything about your opinion. I said it's the opinion of the translators to write only begotten God because Jesus is not God.
Bobby Walker
Active Member
But Jesus is God. It's called the hypostatic union and is the term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God but at the incarnation Jesus became a human being The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man.
The doctrine of the hypostatic union explains in detail how Jesus is both God and man at the same time.
Runningman
Active Member
How is Jesus not omniscient and omnipotent if he is God? The claim there is a hypostatic union is challenged and contradicted by the Bible.
Peterlag
Active Member
Terms found nowhere in Scripture...
- Deity
- Co-equal
- Co-eternal
- Incarnated
- Eternal son
- Infinite son
- God the son
- One substance
- Persons of God
- God became man
- Eternally begotten
- Pre-existent Christ
- God the Holy Spirit
- Pre-incarnate Christ
- Three persons, three in one
- Trinity, Triune God, Tri-unity
- Two nature's, Hypostatic union
Indeed. So these words do not appear in the Unitarian Pocket Dictionary. That means that unitarians are unable to talk about the essence of Christ Jesus and the Father since unitarians lack the vocabulary of God
