Runningman
Active Member
Here we go again. Show an example from the Bible where anyone obeyed what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19.
All Claims of The Son's Deity
- Thread starter Johann
- Start date
Runningman
Active Member
This really gets to the root of the matter. They say Jesus is both "God and Man" which would mean that both sides of Jesus would be in union, cooperative, and intact with one another. When Jesus didn't know something that only God should know, they really can't blame it on Jesus being a human unless he selectively turned off his "God side" when it was convenient - in which case Jesus would have stopped being God and that debunks the hypostatic union too.
The hypostatic union doctrine is one of their get out of jail cards. They have an excuse for everything.
101G
Active Member
Sure Jesus the Christ is the ONLY PERSON in the Godhead. THIMK, are we not in Christ?Nowhere in Paul's epistles does he ever say we're all one in the GodheadGod alone is the Godhead, we're not
LISTEN, 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;" 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."
V, V, V, V, think please...... if the Lord Jesus is the "ONLY" one who have immortality, then your so-called other two persons are not God. for the term ONLY here in 1 Timothy 6:16 means,
G3441 μόνος monos (mo'-nos) adj.
1. remaining, i.e. sole or single.
2. (by implication) mere.
[probably from G3306]
KJV: alone, only, by themselves
Root(s): G3306
remember, 1 Timothy 6:16 is speaking of only ONE PERSON... 1. remaining, i.e. sole or single. .... so where are your so-called other two persons?
101G.
Peterlag
Active Member
The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.
For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.
Kenotic Trinitarians claim that Jesus put off or limited His God nature, but that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth. The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture, and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason. The very simple way to explain the “difficult verses” that Kenotic Trinitarians are trying to explain about Christ’s human experiences is to realize that Jesus was a fully human being, and not both God and man at the sametime. Some assert we have to take the Trinity “by faith” but that is not biblical either.
Peterlag
Active Member
If Jesus was unable to partake. Then he was not tempted.
Runningman
Active Member
And to top all of that off, if Jesus is allegedly a hypostatic union of "God and Man" then those two sides are not separate, but in union. God and Jesus would need to be two sides of the same exact coin, not separate in any way. In other words, trinitarians must adopt the position that God was tempted to sin, the God died, that God denied being God, God wasn't all-knowing, all-powerful, etc. while at the same time being God Almighty. Additionally, as you said, literally none of what they say about this is found in the Bible. The hypostatic union doctrine is a failed doctrine and definitely the weakest link in their trinity machine.
I guess you missed half of the scriptures that reveal God.
Peterlag
Active Member
Someone on here just wrote on one of my posts that...
"A person has to be born again to be a Saint. And Anti-trinitarians aren't born again, as the Bible says. A person has to believe the trinity to be born again. It's essential for salvation."I wrote...
There's no verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
He responded with...
"I take it you are joking, AREN'T YOU. Romans 10:9-10. You unsaved antichrist's Anti-trinitarians are either blinded by the spirit of antichrist that's in you or you are very dishonest people."
I replied with...
Where exactly in Romans 10:9-10 does it say we should believe or confess that Jesus is God?
Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
What am I missing here?
i bet you could not imagine that despite the scripture showing both the divinity and humanity of Christ being evident that somehow your metaphysical conception could fail in this unique case. You prefer your metaphysics concepts over the testimony of scripture
Yep. You miss a nuance here that does not fully undo your point about having to believe Jesus is God.
Verse 13 quotes Joel 3:5 that says "call upon Yahweh" such that "Lord" is specifically Yahweh here.
But you are right to note that you miss things. That is a problem of those espousing unitarianism. It is a new theory within the broad Christian spectrum (or beyond) and fails to recognize its own errors of interpretation.
You are deceiving the people who come late to the discussion. I will remind others that only Christ Jesus has that divinity which refers to being of the same God as the Father. And it is hardly a trick when speaking of orthodox understanding of God.
Runningman
Active Member
God is consistently referred to as a He, Him, His, I, Me, You, Your, etc. but never a they or them throughout the entire Bible. That is perfectly in line with God not being a trinity since there is not even a single instance of God being referred to as a they or a them. This is also perfectly in line with the one and only true God being the Father as the Bible also explicitly says. There are also no plural verbs for God and no plural names for God in the entire Bible. That's Unitarianism Mike and that is true Christianity. We have proof that God isn't a multi-person they or a them.
Yet you think you can come along and upset that. I have to laugh AT you if you think you will ever gain an inch in any debate against a real Christian, Mike.
Runningman
Active Member
Glad you responded to that. So God knows everything and knows nothing at the same time, is dead and alive at the same time, cannot be divided, etc. Well, your hypostatic union doctrine contradicts everything about the God of Christianity.
Runningman
Active Member
Scripture teaches that belief in God and Jesus are two different things.
John 14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Next fallcy.
Runningman
Active Member
Below is a prophecy regarding the trinitarian church.
What do you think God will say to you about telling everyone He is a "they" and a "them" rather than a singular person as the Bible teaches? Do you actually believe in God, and fear God, or is this just a hobby for you?
1 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
Real Christians do not need to debate since they know the Triune God. you provide a novel, odd, unorthodox, neglectful, ahistorical doctrine and use that to dissuade people from orthodox understanding. Mind you, if you were just curious and exploring a path but were not pushing a heretical doctrine, you maybe would be better situated. It is possible you too are a Christian but you are pushing the outer bounds of Christianity. Those beliefs tend to distort other doctrines too.
Last edited:
Your complaint is against God's action and scripture being unclear to you. It is odd because you know about humanity and you know about God the Father yet you do not understand God the Son so then you deny Christ of Christianity. You are the one trying to prove against the testimony of the Triune God found in scripture and you cannot even find grounds to deny the pre-existence of Christ. Instead you just say that is not normal. Duh. Miracles are the same. The stand out because they are not normal events. Neither is God incarnate a typical event. It is a one time situation. You cannot seem to comprehend that so you find everything you can to try to deny what Jesus did. So you depend on your private novel interpretation and think everyone should be convinced by the half-truths you share.
It is insane that you see Jesus as a false teacher. This point from Peter is not saying that the orthodox teachings of Christ and upheld by so many of the early church writers are all false teachings. Your confusion is evident.
Peterlag
Active Member
Joel 3:5 that you mention above does not says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
Joel 3:5
Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:
Peterlag
Active Member
Eusebius of Caesarea (260/265AD – 339 AD) – Matthew 28:19
"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:
Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. In this particular section of his book he was addressing people that claim Jesus used sorcery to perform his miracles, and in his argument he quoted Mathew 28:19 below.
He quotes Mathew 28:19 "Go and make disciples of all nations in My Name." Interesting that he doesn't say baptize, nor does he mention the trinity or a threesome of any kind.
"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:
Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. In this particular section of his book he was addressing people that claim Jesus used sorcery to perform his miracles, and in his argument he quoted Mathew 28:19 below.
He quotes Mathew 28:19 "Go and make disciples of all nations in My Name." Interesting that he doesn't say baptize, nor does he mention the trinity or a threesome of any kind.
