Peterlag
Active Member
I have no frustration other than your ability to understand I am not a follower of Schoenheit. We just went to the same school. He writes about the trinity and I about the spirit of Christ...
https://walking-by-the-spirit.com
All Claims of The Son's Deity
- Thread starter Johann
- Start date
https://walking-by-the-spirit.com
Close enough. The same misinterpretations of scripture happen because of that same training.
Runningman
Active Member
I wouldn't want to be associated with are the hordes of trinitarian televangelist who can only be characterized as charlatans. I also wouldn't want to be associated with your leader and founder Athanasius or Martin Luther. Athanasius had a confirmed criminal record and Martin Luther was an anti-Semite. Pretty hard to keep any sort of credibility when you can't even speak what the Bible speaks and you are so closely associated with immoral trinitarians.
You have run aground and lost track. It is fine that God has spoon fed me the truth whether you are willing to acknowledge Jesus as God or not. I have to remind you that you reject all the passages that show the pre-existence of the Son in incarnation as Jesus. You reject the passages that point to Jesus as God directly. I cannot help guide you until you acknowledge that you have lost track of the message of scripture
But you will associate fine with the Pharisees who replaced God's instruction with their own rules.
I follow scripture and it is not a hindrance if you denigrate all Christians. It remains that God's word is true. I will not follow the Schoenheit cult in its deceptions -- deceptions you follow hook, line, and sinker.
So you just are quoting that this was not some accidental stumbling of Jesus into being Lord. That hardly endorses your failure to recognize the divinity of Christ. I cannot give up the testimony of the divinity of Christ just because you misunderstand and misapply so many passages so as to create the sense that their are contradictions in scripture on who Jesus is.
Use the language like a unitarian and one will trick people into the unitarian cult.
My spirit is alive because God's Spirit is there. Without the Holy Spirit, a person remains dead.
Runningman
Active Member
You have not shown a single verse with Jesus saying or doing anything from Genesis to Malachi nor shown any clear examples of anyone saying he pre-existed his birth or otherwise. As I said, you have been in the defensive position for months making every effort to prove what you believe and that's where I will keep you because I hold the upper hand. You don't want to ask me to prove my beliefs using Scripture because you know I can and I will. You are at the disadvantage because even though the floor has always been yours, you haven't been able to deliver anything.
In fact, it's getting worse the longer you drag this on. You're at the point of basically denying scripture and attempting to poison the well of truth because it isn't serving you anymore. You're to going need to devote your entire life to this and don't miss a beat. How long can you keep up the hatred for truth I wonder.
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Runningman
Active Member
I see what you're doing now. It was weird to me that you kept slandering Schoenheit every time we quoted Scripture. I see you're attempting to equate the Bible with who you believe is cultist. Without actually attacking to Bible directly, you're using Schoenheit as your scapegoat. You're actually not wanting anyone to read what the Bible says about how Jesus isn't God, how Jesus was created, how the Bible doesn't teach anything about worshipping or praying to Jesus, how the Bible is bankrupt of any trinitarian instruction or doctrine, etc.
Runningman
Active Member
Acts 2:36 explicitly states the Lordship and Chrishood of Jesus was created. Jesus never inherently had any status, power, anointings, etc. He received it all from God. The Bible is quite literal about that, but of course, as we all know, anything literal you reject unless it serves your religion. Did you see that? You reject everything the Bible says unless you think it can help you.
Runningman
Active Member
"God the son"
"Christ's divinity in the godhead"
"Eternally begotten"
etc...
This is all trinitarian propaganda. Stop using it and let's discuss the Bible using the language it provides without introducing heretical concepts like the trinity.
Runningman
Active Member
I will take your avoidance of answering my question as an admission that your spirit is not a separate person. How about God's soul? Do you believe God's soul is a separate person or only God's Spirit?
The clear ones on the pre-existence of the Son born as Jesus is stated by Jesus many times. How come you have not noted those? How come you do not recognize the Two Powers of Heaven that Jews realized in passages like Gen 15:1-5? You would have to be advocating that there are four persons in the Godhead if you want to deny this is one of the Godhead who became incarnate.
I feel some sadness for your state of blindness unless you are purposely blind to the scriptures.
You fail to recognize anthropomorphism in scripture. You are going way of the trail here.
I'm just noting your belief system is off track in the style of Schoenheit. His confusion of scripture is inherent to the errors he was taught in the process of interpretation. I just help people recognize the cultish belief that leads to your confused interpretation.
Indeed I do not want people to be confused to read the Bible with disregard of passages about the divinity of Christ. What more needs to be said? You are the one who proposes a deviant, novel doctrine of rejection of Christ. It is up to you to give some reason why anyone should accept your belief system.
Don't you believe that Jesus is the Christ?
This confirm that God the Father does not reveal it to you. (Mat 16:17)
Why? because Arians does not obey God the Father's command to listen to His Son Jesus Christ.
And Christ commanded the believers to baptize new converts in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
This I believe validate that Arians does not have the Almighty God the Father. (2John 1:9)
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Mat 16:17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
2Jn 1:9 Anyone who goes too far and does not remain in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who remains in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Runningman
Active Member
You're going to have to do a lot better than using arguments that strongly imply "This is in the Bible because I say it is."
The reason your pre-existence argument is bad theology is because the same sort of things you say mean Jesus pre-existed apply to others. Human pre-existence is not a doctrine in Scripture, no matter how much it may seem like it's possible.
For example, one could argue people pre-existed based on Scripture, using your same line of bad reasoning:
Did Jeremiah pre-exist simply because God foreknew him?
Jeremiah 1
5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Did God intimately know David due to David pre-existing?
Psalm 139
13For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
How could God chose people who didn't pre-exist?
Ephesians 1
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
The common denominator is there are no examples of people pre-existing their birth, including Jesus.
Runningman
Active Member
The Father has a spirit and a soul, just like we all do, they aren't separate persons from God or us no are our children the same person as us, nor does having something in common with our children mean we are the same being. Trinitarians score an F in sound reasoning.
Did you know they didn't even fully agree that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are members of a trinity until the 4th century?
Runningman
Active Member
You talked about Schoenheit directly after we have quoted Scripture that says the exact same thing we are talking about. So the way it looks is your are blaming an evangelist for what the Bible says. Doesn't the Bible say the Father is the only true God? Do you agree with that or not?
