All Claims of The Son's Deity

If Jesus Christ isn't God, then WHO purchased the church w/ His own blood? :unsure:

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,
to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Acts 20:28

I mean, He did say He's the first, & the last... was dead, & is alive :unsure:

"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;"
Revelation 2:8

Oh, the Jews knew exactly who Jesus was claiming to be. Otherwise, why would He say, I AM? Only God is I AM.
John 8:58; Exodus 3:13-14
John 8:58 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. "I am" was a common phrase and it isn't the name of anyone. At the last super, the disciples were trying to find out who would deny the Christ. They said literally, "Not I am, Lord" Matthew 26:22, 25. No one would say the disciples were trying to deny they were God because they were using the phrase "Not I am." "I am" was a common way of designating one self and it did not mean you were claiming to be God. The argument is made that because Jesus was "before" Abraham, Jesus must be God. Jesus figuratively existed in Abraham's time. He did not actually physically exist as a person, but rather he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man. In order for the Trinitariana rgument that Jesus' "I am" statement in John 8:58 makes him God, his statement must be equivalent with God's "I am" statement in Exodus 3:14. The two statements are very different. The Greek phrase in John does mean "I am." The Hebrew phrase in Exodus means "to be" or "to become." God was saying "I will be what I will be."
 
Who said anything about originals, Peterlag? The silly, yet common, argument is to say that b/c they're not the originals, we could never really say God therefore was able to keep His inspired, preserved, inerrant Word throughout all generations. Even copies were made in the Old Testament. Here's two examples:

Moses' Anger: Exodus 32:19
The Two Tablets Replaced: Exodus 34:1-4


Does this mean we can't be certain what the Ten Commandments were? Of course not!

Jeremiah's Scroll Read in the Temple: Chapter 36:1-19
The Scroll Is Burned: Chapter 36:20-26
The Scroll Is Replaced:
Chapter 36:27-32

Another thing to consider, the materials used to copy the texts were perishable. They would wear out through constant use.
This is to be expected with any ancient writing.
I don't know what your point is.
 
John 8:58 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. "I am" was a common phrase and it isn't the name of anyone. At the last super, the disciples were trying to find out who would deny the Christ. They said literally, "Not I am, Lord" Matthew 26:22, 25. No one would say the disciples were trying to deny they were God because they were using the phrase "Not I am." "I am" was a common way of designating one self and it did not mean you were claiming to be God. The argument is made that because Jesus was "before" Abraham, Jesus must be God. Jesus figuratively existed in Abraham's time. He did not actually physically exist as a person, but rather he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man. In order for the Trinitariana rgument that Jesus' "I am" statement in John 8:58 makes him God, his statement must be equivalent with God's "I am" statement in Exodus 3:14. The two statements are very different. The Greek phrase in John does mean "I am." The Hebrew phrase in Exodus means "to be" or "to become." God was saying "I will be what I will be."
disappointed-disappointed-fan.gif
 
I don't know what your point is.
You must've forgotten about...
There are no orginals. All we have is copies of copies and the problem even on this website is I can quote a verse and someone else here can quote the same verse from a different Bible that says something completely different.
There's no such thing as a "different" Bible, just two "different" sets of manuscripts. There's a diamond in the rough, floating around in a sea full of counterfeits. It's any serious Bible student's job to figure out which is which 😉
 
You must've forgotten about...

There's no such thing as a "different" Bible, just two "different" sets of manuscripts. There's a diamond in the rough, floating around in a sea full of counterfeits. It's any serious Bible student's job to figure out which is which 😉
Yeah I already did that.
 
John 8:58 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. "I am" was a common phrase and it isn't the name of anyone. At the last super, the disciples were trying to find out who would deny the Christ. They said literally, "Not I am, Lord" Matthew 26:22, 25. No one would say the disciples were trying to deny they were God because they were using the phrase "Not I am." "I am" was a common way of designating one self and it did not mean you were claiming to be God. The argument is made that because Jesus was "before" Abraham, Jesus must be God. Jesus figuratively existed in Abraham's time. He did not actually physically exist as a person, but rather he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man. In order for the Trinitariana rgument that Jesus' "I am" statement in John 8:58 makes him God, his statement must be equivalent with God's "I am" statement in Exodus 3:14. The two statements are very different. The Greek phrase in John does mean "I am." The Hebrew phrase in Exodus means "to be" or "to become." God was saying "I will be what I will be."
The "I am" in Ex 3:14, in Hebrew "היה hâyâh" many definition by Bible lexicon but not one as - I will be what I will be.
And the "I am" in Ex 3:14 and John 8:58 bear the same Strong number in Greek, as "εἰμί eimi." See below;
That proves that what Jesus said in John 8:58 was in reference to Exodus 3:14.

Do you believe what Jesus said in John 5:37? That neither have heard the voice of the Father anytime?
Then whose voice was that on Exodus 3:14?
I believe, Jesus Himself as what He said in John 8:58.

Joh 5:37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

Exo 3:14 And GodH430 saidH559 to MosesH4872, “N1 R1
I AMH1961 WHOH834 N1I AMH1961”; and He saidH559, “ThisH3541 isH3541 whatH3541 you shall sayH559 to the sonsH1121 of IsraelH3478: ‘N1I AMH1961 has sentH7971 me to you.’”

Exo 3:14 AndG2532 God saidG2036 G3588 G2316 toG4314 Moses,G* IG1473 amG1510.2.1 the oneG3588 being.G1510.6 AndG2532 he said,G2036 ThusG3779 you shall sayG2046 to theG3588 sonsG5207 of Israel,G* The oneG3588 beingG1510.6 has sentG649 meG1473 toG4314 you.G1473

Joh 8:58 [2saidG2036 3to themG1473 G3588 1Jesus],G* Amen,G281 amen,G281 I sayG3004 to you,G1473 BeforeG4250 AbrahamG* existedG1096 IG1473 am.G1510.2.1

H1961
היה hâyâh
BDB Definition:
1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out
1a) (Qal)
1a1) -----
1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass
1a1b) to come about, come to pass
1a2) to come into being, become
1a2a) to arise, appear, come
1a2b) to become
1a2b1) to become
1a2b2) to become like
1a2b3) to be instituted, be established
1a3) to be
1a3a) to exist, be in existence
1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)
1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality)
1a3d) to accompany, be with
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
1b2) to be done, be finished,
be gone

G1510
εἰμί eimi
 
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Whoooa, Nelly... is 101G suggesting that those who are saved NO longer sin??? Say it ain't so, 101G! o_O
Why did you jump to that conclusion? did 101G say this? so, are you sinning without KNOWLEDGE, but FYI as said, the saved can sin, and have the remedy for it. 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." but this is the saved. so, are you sinning and using 1 John 1:7 & 8 as an excuse.... (Smile)..... lol?

now, back to what 101G was saying, let God the HOLY Spirit, JESUS teach us. and if one have NOT the Spirit, then one is IGNORANT of God's wisdom and understanding, do you agree? yes or no?

101G.
 
To all,
let 101G position be clear, A. Jesus is God, the ONLY TRUE and LIVING God, the CREATOR of all things/Father. B. Jesus the Christ is the Equal Share of "GOD" Himself in flesh the redeemer of all that he has created/Son. C. the Holy Spirit/Ghost is JESUS the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') who is Father and Son in "Diversified Oneness", the EQUALSHARE of himself in flesh that was to come. meaning he Jesus/God is in Ordinal Designation of himself in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK.

101G.
 
Sometimes it's best to just walk away, if all else fails, for it will only lead unto more ungodliness. Others are watching how we conduct ourselves among one another as well, so we should always aim to reflect, & glorify Christ in all our endeavors.

Make it more about scripture, less about opinions :)
Precious friend, yes, agree = It is better to obey God, rather than keep these endless arguments going by "bashing others over the head with Scriptures", eh?:

(Romans 16:17; Titus 3:10 AV)

Lord God Please help us all. Amen.
 
Sometimes it's best to just walk away, if all else fails, for it will only lead unto more ungodliness. Others are watching how we conduct ourselves among one another as well, so we should always aim to reflect, & glorify Christ in all our endeavors.

Make it more about scripture, less about opinions :)
i basically keep it on scriptures but just posting a scripture does not make any point when not reflecting what a verse or passage conveys.
 
If Jesus Christ isn't God, then WHO purchased the church w/ His own blood? :unsure:

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,
to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Acts 20:28
ESV foot notes: with the blood of his Own which I believe is more in line with the scope of scripture. God did not die, nor did God shed his blood but His Son: ..... And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. [Matt. 26:27,28]
Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. [Rom. 3:24,25], etc.
I mean, He did say He's the first, & the last... was dead, & is alive :unsure:

"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;"
Revelation 2:8
I believe this verse is in reference to Jesus . . . Yes, God is also called the first and the last but God never died, therefore, He was never raised to eternal life to live again. . . . Jesus did die and God raised him from the dead and Jesus became a life-giving spirit, the last Adam.
Oh, the Jews knew exactly who Jesus was claiming to be. Otherwise, why would He say, I AM? Only God is I AM.
John 8:58; Exodus 3:13-14
Was Jesus claiming to be God? OT - God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM'. And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, I AM has sent me to you . . . God also said to Moses: "Say this to the people of Israel: The LORD (Yahweh) the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. . . . It seems the only name people remember is God's name being I AM WHO I AM, I AM!!!! but His name is Yahweh.

It seems that John 8:58 is one of the rare occurrences (out of many occurrences) of the phrase "I am" which is not followed by a predicate. ego eimi was a very common phrase used as an expression of self identity.

John 8:24 - I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he (ego eimi) you will die in your sins.” - I am who I claim to be . . . just as in Mark 14:60, 61 But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” And Jesus said, “I am (ego eimi), and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” - I am the Christ, the Son of the Blessed - I am who I claim to be.
Matt. 16:15 . . . But whom do you say I am? (ego eimi) Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Jesus never claimed to be Almighty God but he did claim to be the Christ the Son of God.
Ya know . . . these Jews who are making accusations against Jesus in this context - Jesus said of them that they said were of their father the devil which is why they couldn't understand what he was saying. . . .their will was to do their father's desires. Their father was a murderer from the beginning, and did not stand in the truth because there was no truth in him . . . which is why Jesus said: 'but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God?'
Jesus wasn't claiming to be God at all . . . Jesus was before Abraham in God's foreknowledge, in the mind of God as set forth in Genesis 3:15 and Abraham did look forward to Jesus' day in faith . . .
 
The "I am" in Ex 3:14, in Hebrew "היה hâyâh" many definition by Bible lexicon but not one as - I will be what I will be.
And the "I am" in Ex 3:14 and John 8:58 bear the same Strong number in Greek, as "εἰμί eimi." See below;
That proves that what Jesus said in John 8:58 was in reference to Exodus 3:14.

Do you believe what Jesus said in John 5:37? That neither have heard the voice of the Father anytime?
Then whose voice was that on Exodus 3:14?
I believe, Jesus Himself as what He said in John 8:58.

Joh 5:37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

Exo 3:14 And GodH430 saidH559 to MosesH4872, “N1 R1
I AMH1961 WHOH834 N1I AMH1961”; and He saidH559, “ThisH3541 isH3541 whatH3541 you shall sayH559 to the sonsH1121 of IsraelH3478: ‘N1I AMH1961 has sentH7971 me to you.’”

Exo 3:14 AndG2532 God saidG2036 G3588 G2316 toG4314 Moses,G* IG1473 amG1510.2.1 the oneG3588 being.G1510.6 AndG2532 he said,G2036 ThusG3779 you shall sayG2046 to theG3588 sonsG5207 of Israel,G* The oneG3588 beingG1510.6 has sentG649 meG1473 toG4314 you.G1473

Joh 8:58 [2saidG2036 3to themG1473 G3588 1Jesus],G* Amen,G281 amen,G281 I sayG3004 to you,G1473 BeforeG4250 AbrahamG* existedG1096 IG1473 am.G1510.2.1

H1961
היה hâyâh
BDB Definition:
1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out
1a) (Qal)
1a1) -----
1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass
1a1b) to come about, come to pass
1a2) to come into being, become
1a2a) to arise, appear, come
1a2b) to become
1a2b1) to become
1a2b2) to become like
1a2b3) to be instituted, be established
1a3) to be
1a3a) to exist, be in existence
1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)
1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality)
1a3d) to accompany, be with
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
1b2) to be done, be finished,
be gone

G1510
εἰμί eimi
Those reference books show how the Bible translates a word and not what the Greek actually means. "I am" was a common phrase and it isn't the name of anyone.
 
Oh no I don't mean me ticking off people by posting it. I mean trinitarians getting ticked off when Jesus denies them before the Father.
Yes. Practicing the sin of idolatry, which is what Trinitarianism is, is the kind of lawlessness that will result in them being denied before the Father. The remedy is simple and easy to implement, but most of them don't seem to have a heart fertile enough to accept truth. It also doesn't help that their leaders have poisoned the well of truth and scarred most of them off. However, like the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, there comes a time when rejecting the Scriptures, that could have lead them to salvation, will result in judgment. The rich man rejected Moses and the prophets. Traditionally, Moses wrote Deuteronomy, but Moses did record the prophecy of Jesus being a prophet whom God would raise up and work through rather than God Himself. The trinitarians also reject Moses.

The prophecy YHWH gave of the prophet Jesus is clear that God and Jesus aren't the same person. I have even bolded and highlighted it to make it trinitarian proof.

Deuteronomy 18
17Then the LORD said to me, “They have spoken well. 18I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19And I will hold accountable anyone who does not listen to My words that the prophet speaks in My name.
 
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Your arguments also proves Jesus' dual nature, the interchanging of His nature confirms it.
We cannot grasp God's foreknowledge. Knowing Jesus of being in two nature "Son of man" and "Son of God" even before He became flesh.
We don't know that. Only the supernatural God knows, revealed through His messengers.(Phil 2:6-8)
What we know naturally, dogs bears puppies, or cats produced kittens. That is if you know something otherwise?
On the "dual nature" philosophy of Jesus, there are things about Jesus that no matter which nature you turn to for an excuse, the dual nature theory doesn't help. For example, the Son is not an omniscient God, but the Father is. Matthew 24 demonstrates that there isn't a dual nature and a God nature that Jesus possessed. Jesus does possess something called a divine nature, but that is something normal Christians are expected to have as well according to 2 Peter 1:4.

Matthew 24
36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
 
God repented. Does this mean He sinned?

"And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." Exodus 32:14

"The LORD repented for this: It shall not be, saith the LORD... The LORD repented for this:
This also shall not be, saith the Lord GOD." Amos 7:3; 6

This sounds like Lordship Salvation. The word repent actually means a "change of mind/heart", not "turn away" from sin. Religion is like spraying cologne/perfume on a dead corpse, somehow thinking we can make ourselves acceptable in the flesh unto a holy God.

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Galatians 3:3

If it's the death, burial, & resurrection + works of the flesh, you're lacking faith!

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." Ephesians 1:13-14

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Romans 4:3-4

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Romans 6:14

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6

What the apostle Paul has to say regarding living in sin...
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=Sin*+God*+Forbid*&t=KJV&csr=12#s=s_primary_0_1
Unlike Jesus, God can't even be tempted with sin. Do you agree with this? This is an important first step in learning the difference between Jesus and God.

Jesus can be tempted to sin:

Hebrews 4
15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin.

God can't be tempted to sin:

James 1
13When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone.
 
GINOLJC, to all.
ERROR, the Holy Spirit is the Father and Son, (manifested in flesh), who is JESUS the only true God. understand the Holy Spirit is in "Diversity" which is the G243 ALLOS of himself as the EQUAL SHARE of himself in flesh. this is the plurality of God as
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
Compare: H5945, H7706, H8199, H4397

H433 is ..........
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410

see the plurality of, of, of, of H433...... not two or three persons, but only "ONE" person who is OF one person, hence the "EQUAL SHARE", just as John 1:1 clearly states and as Philippians 2:6 reveals.

101G.
Different senses of "holy spirit" in Scripture. The Holy Spirit is God one in sense, but then in another sense the holy spirit can be a gift, an anointing, an empowerment, something someone can receive and/or lose. God Himself isn't a gift. Most trinitarian Bibles do a poor job with this distinction of where the holy spirit = a spirit of holiness or where the Holy Spirit = God. So I can understand why you would get thrown off without careful study.
 
Not quite. That was just the type of confusion that some people felt when they read about Jesus being God incarnate. they just could not comprehend what God has done here.
No one in your organization has ever read anything about Jesus being incarnated in Scripture. They didn't even have a Greek or Hebrew word for "incarnate" in the 1st century. It was an entirely foreign and pagan concept at the time.
 
Hmm. If I have not made it clear before, then let it be known that baptism in Jesus' name is fine because he is God that also is found in Matt 28:19-20 and John 1:1-18. He never is less than God, except in humbling himself without explicitly saying to the people in hyperliteralist words "I am God incarnate."
Getting baptized in Jesus' name is not a reference to deity. It's a reference to who's discipleship one is under. They were getting baptized in John's name, Paul's name, and Jesus' name. Getting baptized in Jesus' name and claiming that refers to him being God is a half baked argument.

Acts 19
1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interiora and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”
“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.
“The baptism of John,” they replied.
4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
 
You always want to deny the scriptures pointing out the divinity of Christ directly such as John 1:1-18, especially the mention of him as God in the bosom of God.
John 1:1 teaches the Word is not the God.

John 1:3,14 teaches that Jesus was created.

This does not state that Jesus in his incarnation was not God. This passage refers to the time after his resurrection. So you really confuse the passage with unitarian thought. This verse indicates not explicitly the Holy Spirit but rather the promise coming from the Holy Spirit or having the ability to send the Holy Spirit into the lives his followers.
There is nothing in line with an incarnation in the context of John 1:1-18. It speaks of all things being created, flesh is a thing, therefore Jesus was created, not incarnated.
 
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