All Claims of The Son's Deity

[Peterlag]

Right and that is what doctrines are, which are the very same things that are heavily condemned by the Bible. They take a little bit here, take a little bit there, put it all together and thus abuse the very sacred Scriptures they think they are preserving. The Pharisees were heavily rebuked for such things. Apparently, it was such a big problem that even Peter of all people was saying it would get people destroyed. John said that altering his writings in Revelation would make someone lose their salvation.

This thing is is that the Scriptures already are the revelation from God and there is no invitation to add to them or take away from them. There is no invitation to take something Jesus, Paul, and anyone else said in what was recorded and mix it all together and form a conclusion other than the conclusion that was already presented.

As you said, there are no statements about the trinity in the Bible. With as something as important as who God is and the written testimony that Jesus revealed who God is then one would think that would be in the Bible, but of course it's not. Jesus was a strict monotheist and what we would call a Unitarian by today's standards. He plainly taught to worship, pray to, fast for, and serve the Father who he called the only true God. He lead by example and practiced what he preached.

For some reason, Jesus' teachings were offensive to a lot of people. It may not be readily apparent as to why, but when you love the truth it's difficult to assume the rationale of those who hate it. There is a major spiritual component to what God taught Jesus to teach about and it ultimately boils down to a matter a light versus darkness, not only in a figurative sense, but in a literal good versus evil sense. That's why they simply reject the matter of the Father being the only true God. The people are of this world are usually easier to reach than them as they have not been corrupted by their false doctrines.

From the very beginning the majority have always been on the wrong side. I have said for years just look at what the Catholics are doing and then do the opposite and you will probably be right on. The first couple of chapters of Romans paints a picture of men walking by their flesh and I believe that's what we have here. Men walking in their flesh and calling it spiritual. The one thing I don't know is if many of them are without spirit. I said many not all.

 

[Runningman]

I'm not sure what you issue is. There are various implications of begotten Son. It can refer to having the Kingship through resurrection or reflecting back on Jesus' birth for his incarnation.
Are you denying the virgin birth where God initiated the birth?
You just seem to prefer to deny Christ.

Jesus was fathered by God in every sense of the word according to the Bible. Jesus isn't an eternal being.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus was fathered by God in every sense of the word according to the Bible. Jesus isn't an eternal being.

Maybe you know that a father's qualities are in their sons. The divinity obviously is part of that. But we also know that Jesus refers to his pre-existence.
Great overlooking of so much scripture. You are skilled in overlooking the pre-existence that is repeated in so many ways in scripture. Does the idea of pre-existence have some other meaning to you? Are the verses about his pre-existence disappear from your bible?

 

[Runningman]

From the very beginning the majority have always been on the wrong side. I have said for years just look at what the Catholics are doing and then do the opposite and you will probably be right on. The first couple of chapters of Romans paints a picture of men walking by their flesh and I believe that's what we have here. Men walking in their flesh and calling it spiritual. The one thing I don't know is if many of them are without spirit. I said many not all.

I've been saying the same things for years and the difference is likely foundational. The name of this forum was attractive to me because I figured there may be a lot of people like me. Didn't the Bereans search the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was true? That's been a foundational belief for me and searching the Scriptures early on is how I realized the that the trins are full of it. They make a claim, I searched the Bible, and there was nothing about what they said there. They just have a bunch of doctrines that normally state conlusions entirely foreign to the Bible and orthodox Christianity.

 

[mikesw]

I've been saying the same things for years and the difference is likely foundational. The name of this forum was attractive to me because I figured there may be a lot of people like me. Didn't the Bereans search the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was true? That's been a foundational belief for me and searching the Scriptures early on is how I realized the that the trins are full of it. They make a claim, I searched the Bible, and there was nothing about what they said there. They just have a bunch of doctrines that nomrally state conlusions entirely foreign to the Bible and orthodox Christianity.

I would be amazed if you do not see everything backwards.

 

[Runningman]

Maybe you know that a father's qualities are in their sons. The divinity obviously is part of that. But we also know that Jesus refers to his pre-existence.
Great overlooking of so much scripture. You are skilled in overlooking the pre-existence that is repeated in so many ways in scripture. Does the idea of pre-existence have some other meaning to you? Are the verses about his pre-existence disappear from your bible?

Jesus didn't pre-exist. As usual, I will ask you to show me where Jesus was in the Old Testament saying or doing anything and, as usual, you not only will come up empty handed, but you won't even dignify the fact that there is no evidence for a pre-existent Jesus. You won't even address it or explain why. You will throw up some smokescreens, pretend like you were clever, and continue on. I know you.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus didn't pre-exist. As usual, I will ask you to show me where Jesus was in the Old Testament saying or doing anything and, as usual, you not only will come up empty handed, but you won't even dignify the fact that there is no evidence for a pre-existent Jesus.

I guess you do not like hearing what Jesus says. Is that total blindness on your part? Or do you just reject Jesus? You do three things here: deny, deny, deny. You are one step away from JWs.

 

[Runningman]

I would be amazed if you do not see everything backwards.

As Peter said, look at Catholics for what not do do, generally speaking, though I like the Catholics better than the Protestants because they are more serious about abstaining from sin. I can respect that even though they have some grievous errors as well.

 

[Runningman]

I guess you do not like hearing what Jesus says. Is that total blindness on your part? Or do you just reject Jesus? You do three things here: deny, deny, deny. You are one step away from JWs.

Jesus never said he pre-existed did he?

 

[mikesw]

As Peter said, look at Catholics for what not do do, generally speaking, though I like the Catholics better than the Protestants because they are more serious about abstaining from sin. I can respect that even though they have some grievous errors as well.

You would find perfect company with those of error-prone doctrines. At least you will have fun until you die.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus never said he pre-existed did he?

you are right. We have no verse saying "Jesus spoke up and said 'I pre-existed and am saying this because unitarian heretics cannot understand anything except that direct statement.'"

 

[synergy]

My views rely on what the Bible says. Your views rely on your interpretation. Your views are neither logical, intuitive, and are riddled with contradictions. The trinity is a false doctrine and you have an idol. It's all been proven to you. It's going to be interesting watching you trying to quote a single verse or passage about the trinity from the Bible. It isn't as all convincing to reject the exclusive deity of the Father in exchange for something the Bible doesn't say. It's pitiful how stubbornly blind you people are.

Read Rom 9:5. Christ is the eternally blessed God. And all God's people said Amen! Will you join us in joyously shouting Amen also?

(Rom 9:5) of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

 

[Peterlag]

I've been saying the same things for years and the difference is likely foundational. The name of this forum was attractive to me because I figured there may be a lot of people like me. Didn't the Bereans search the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was true? That's been a foundational belief for me and searching the Scriptures early on is how I realized the that the trins are full of it. They make a claim, I searched the Bible, and there was nothing about what they said there. They just have a bunch of doctrines that normally state conlusions entirely foreign to the Bible and orthodox Christianity.

I often wonder how so many can be so wrong. But look at the Jews... the head guy who was the High Priest ordered the death of Jesus Christ. The top religious guy did that.

 

[Peterlag]

The "logos" is God's expression of thought that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.

The word "logos" (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος "logos" is something said (including the thought). So the word "logos" means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word "logos" is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[Runningman]

You would find perfect company with those of error-prone doctrines. At least you will have fun until you die.

That must be why you're a trinitarian.

If I understand you correctly, you do not believe the Father who is the only true God sent Jesus, but rather you believe the trinity sent Jesus? Do you believe in Him Who sent Jesus? If you don't believe the Father is the only true God who sent Jesus then you aren't saved.

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

John 5
24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

 

[Runningman]

you are right. We have no verse saying "Jesus spoke up and said 'I pre-existed and am saying this because unitarian heretics cannot understand anything except that direct statement.'"

You don't have a verse with Jesus claiming he is God, you don't have any examples or statements of Jesus pre-existing, you have no teachings to pray to Jesus, you have no teachings to worship Jesus, you have no teachings to fast for Jesus, and you have no teachings or statements about the trinity. You are in spiritual bondage to a cult.

 

[mikesw]

You don't have a verse with Jesus claiming he is God, you don't have any examples or statements of Jesus pre-existing, you have no teachings to pray to Jesus, you have no teachings to worship Jesus, you have no teachings to fast for Jesus, and you have no teachings or statements about the trinity. You are in spiritual bondage to a cult.

I'm sorry if you cannot follow scripture. You need someone who knows scripture to teach you. you are needing milk of the word before you can start understanding deeper details. Scripture has been shared with you but you denied its meaning. That is troublesome.

 

[Runningman]

Read Rom 9:5. Christ is the eternally blessed God. And all God's people said Amen! Will you join us in joyously shouting Amen also?

(Rom 9:5) of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Not according to Scripture.

Romans 9 (RSV)
5 to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all be blessed for ever. Amen.

Romans 9 (KJV)
5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[Runningman]

I'm sorry if you cannot follow scripture. You need someone who knows scripture to teach you. you are needing milk of the word before you can start understanding deeper details. Scripture has been shared with you but you denied its meaning. That is troublesome.

You know it's true that you don't have a single bible verse to save your life, if it were required, to back up your claims. That's gotta be tough. You just have a bunch of hot air and arguments.

 

[Runningman]

I often wonder how so many can be so wrong. But look at the Jews... the head guy who was the High Priest ordered the death of Jesus Christ. The top religious guy did that.

I guess their heart is in the wrong place just like most of the religious leaders of the day of Jesus. They were the majority, the loudest, had the most political power, and were the most financed yet the majority of them were enemies of the cross.

I say the majority of them had a heart in the wrong place, but not all. There is Nicodemus who rightly understood that Jesus was a man who God was with (not God who became a man) and Jesus never corrected him, according to John 3:2. However, on the matter of basic spiritual concepts, Nicodemus basically had no idea what he was talking about because he was cut from the same cloth as the rest of the blind and deaf Phariees, yet he wasn't unteachable and unreachable.

I can only imagine the look on Jesus' face when he said "You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things?" The head teacher of Israel was essentially a spiritual baby who seemed to think that "Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?" was a valid and reasonable question to ask. However, you can see how Nicodemus stood up for Jesus when he said “Does our law convict a man without first hearing from him to determine what he has done?” While Nicodemus was never explicitly said to be a follower of Jesus, it's likely he atleast sympathized with Jesus and did not believe he was guilty of any wrongdoing, contrary to what the bulk majority of them seemed to be saying. You will find very few Trinitarians like this, very few.

So when you continue preaching the teachings of Jesus, don't be surprised if the bulk majority of them simply hate you for it, even among the trinitarian establishment masquerading as the spriritually enlightened.