The Amplified Bible reads - Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses]. Is our hope in faith itself or is our hope in something else? (Titus 1:2; 3:7) What is the object of what is hoped for and not seen? The substance or assurance and evidence or conviction of faith is not simply blind faith, or wishful thinking. Your erroneous interpretation of Hebrews 11:1 and James 2 culminates in faith "is" works and salvation by works which is consistent with what Roman Catholics and other works-salvationists teach but is not consistent with what the Bible teaches.
Our hope is not in faith itself. Our hope is in the One in whom we have faith, the One whom we trust.
Going back to the analogy of the man going across the Grand Canyon: our hope is to get across the Canyon. Our faith is in the man pushing the wheelbarrow. The evidence is that we get into the wheelbarrow. If there is no evidence, then there is no faith, only lip service.
True, yet genuine believers love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) The love of God has been poured out in the hearts of genuine believers by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5)
He loved everyone first, not just the saved. The love of God was poured out for us in Jesus' blood on the Cross. And through the power of the Blood, the Holy Spirit has been poured out into our hearts. We love much because we realize that we have been forgiven much.
So now you are re-defining faith by "adding" works to the definition.
No, I am not "adding" anything. Faith is the evidence of what is not seen. Our actions are the evidence of our internal acceptance of the truth of the Gospel. Without action there is no evidence.
As I explained to you before, works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith but not the very essence of faith and also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation.
No, works are not the fruit of faith. They are the soul of faith (James 2:26). They are not a by product of faith, they are an integral part of complete faith. Without works faith is incomplete and dead, stillborn.
It's actually repentance and faith that are two sides of the same coin (repent -- change of mind -- new direction of this change of mind -- faith in Jesus Christ for salvation) and not faith and works.
Repentance is a completely separate concept from faith. James does not say that repentance completes faith (James 2:22), he says that works do.
Your faith remains in works and not in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.
Not at all. My faith is in Jesus. Because my faith is in Jesus, I trust that He will do what He said. And He said that those who believe in Him and are baptized into Him will be saved. He said that the only way to enter His Kingdom is to be reborn of water and the Spirit. He inspired His Apostles to tell us that we are saved from sin thorough baptism. That in baptism we die to sin, have our sin cut from us, and are united to God through Christ by the working of the Holy Spirit. I trust that He will do what He said, and He said He will save us if we obey Him. If we don't obey Him, then we can be sure that He won't save us.
It's your focus that is on the wrong thing here. Faith is the substance of things HOPED FOR. You also "add" works to the definition. Your faith is in the actions and not in what is hoped for and unseen. Action is a demonstration of our faith but not the origin or essence of it.
Again, you are wrong. Faith is the SUBSTANCE, the physical manifestation, the evidence. The substance/evidence of what? The substance of what we hope for. What do we hope for? Salvation in Christ. So our faith is the substance of our salvation in Christ.
You just contradicted yourself AGAIN. "No works salvation/no salvation without any action/works at all." If you are trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation + works whether in part or for the most part, you are still trusting in works for salvation. Your faith is in your actions/works and is not exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. You still need to repent (change your mind) and place your faith in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6)
Absolutely you must repent. You must turn, both spiritually and physically, from sin and the sinful lifestyle, and follow after Jesus. But again, my faith is not in repentance. Just turning away from sin does not cleanse us from the stain of the sin already committed. Just because you cease walking in mud does not remove the mud already on you. You must be washed to remove the mud already on you. And only Jesus' blood can remove that stain. My faith is in Jesus' blood, not in repentance, and not in baptism. But both repentance and baptism are commanded by Jesus as being required to receive His forgiveness.
So, mute people who cannot speak will remain lost for failing to accomplish the physical action of confessing Jesus as Lord with the mouth? The word of faith is still in their mouth and in their heart TOGETHER. (Romans 10:8) You missed Paul's point by turning confession into a work for salvation. I have already thoroughly explained Romans 10:8-10 to you multiple times but the truth continues to go right over your head.
You have explained your reasoning of it based on your preconception. But your argument about the mute is a false trail. The mute use their hands as their method of communication, so their "mouth" is in their hands. And what is the word of faith that is in their mouth and hand? It is the Gospel that Paul (and the other ministers of the Faith) is/are preaching. So now that they have heard the Gospel, "the ball is in their court" so to speak. It is now time for them to believe the Gospel, confess Jesus as Lord, (and be baptized into Him) to receive salvation.
If Noah would have refused to build the ark, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith, but of course, that was not the case. Noah already trusted in God and found grace in the eyes of the Lord (Genesis 6:8) and was a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5) and walked with God BEFORE he built the ark, and his obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it. You put the cart before the horse.
Yes, it was a demonstration of his continued trust in God. It was a continuation of the faith he had his whole life. He did not find grace in God's eyes because he built the Ark. But that does not change the fact that his faith was completed, made perfect, continued through his building of the Ark. If he had said, "God, I have trusted you, and listened to you all these years. But you go too far with this "rain" and "flood" business. I don't believe you, and I'm not building your stupid Ark.", then he would not have been saved from the Flood, and he would not have gone to eternity in Heaven.
So, according to you, with the heart ones believes unto righteousness but remains lost? That is not consistent with Romans 4:5 -- "believes on Him/his faith is accounted for righteousness."
Yes, it is consistent. If one only believes with the heart, but does not exhibit faith (take action on the belief in the heart) then he remains lost. If you believe in your heart, but don't confess Jesus then He will not confess you before the Father (you will be lost). If you do not have your sins cut from you in baptism, then you are still stained with sin, not clothed in white wedding cloths, and will be cast out into outer darkness.
If confession is a work for salvation after faith,
Not "after faith", but a part of faith.
then why is confession not mentioned in numerous passages of scripture which make it clear that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 11:17; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-9, 26; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..). Like I said before, belief and confession are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:8-10)
Yes, they are together, because if you truly believe in your heart, then you will confess with your mouth, and you will be baptized into Christ just as Jesus commands. If you don't really believe, then you won't obey, and so you remain lost.
So, what happened to baptism in Romans 10:9,10? Paul did not mention baptism here and the word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart TOGETHER. (Romans 10:8) The word of faith is not in the water.
No, he didn't mention baptism here. But he did back in Rom 6. And again in his letter to Corinth. And again in his letter to Galatia. And again in his letter to Ephesus. It is not necessary to repeat every step in every place that salvation is discussed.
So, now you also "add" obedience/works to Romans 10:9,10. Your list of works for salvation just keeps growing. I often hear works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics and Mormons) cite Hebrews 5:9 in their efforts to support salvation by works. So, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9,10) In either sense, only believers obey Him.
You have it backward. Only those who obey Him are believers. Jesus is the source of salvation, but what determines who receives His salvation? Our obedience determines who receives His salvation. Because He is the source of salvation "TO THOSE WHO OBEY HIM."
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "lip service" confession or "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through their unregenerate hearts in a vain effort to receive salvation based on works. So, in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
Correct, people who do not believe, no matter what actions they take, do not receive salvation. But that does not mean that the actions are irrelevant. The actions taken without belief are meaningless, and belief without the actions is also meaningless. Both are required, because it is the actions that complete the belief/faith.
Paul said nothing about hands in Romans 10:9,10 but only mouth. Romans 10:8 clears up any confusion.
What is the "mouth"? It is the method of communication we use to most effectively and quickly communicate with another person. So when a deaf/mute is teaching a deaf/mute what is their "mouth"? Their "mouth" is their hands, with which they sign the words of communication to each other.
So, now you are saying that confession is not made unto salvation?
You are all over the place.
I did not say that "confession is not made unto salvation". Confession is made "unto" salvation, but that does not mean that salvation is received instantly upon confession alone. Belief and confession should precede baptism by mere moments, as is evidenced by the stories of salvation all though Acts. There is much haste placed upon baptizing a person as soon as they indicate belief in the Gospel, and their confession of Jesus as Lord is made at the time of their baptism (calling on the name of the Lord).
The demons do acknowledge that Jesus is the Lord, that Jesus is God. They are not stupid. They fully know exactly who His is. The demons do not obey Him because they have rebelled against Him, so they have not received Him as their Lord and Savior.
To acknowledge someone as lord means that you obey and serve that person. I do not acknowledge the king of England as my lord. He is lord of his country, but he is not my lord. If the demons acknowledged Jesus as Lord, then they would cease their rebellion and serve Him. But they do not (or maybe cannot, I'm not sure). But if they could or did acknowledge Him as Lord, then they would serve and obey Him as Lord, and would no longer be demons, but be holy servants of God.
False. None of us have flawlessly obeyed everything that Jesus has commanded, and we are not saved by works. Period. Your erroneous interpretation stems from works-righteousness.
Flawless obedience is not a commandment anywhere in Scripture. Only Jesus could or did flawlessly obey all of God's commandments. We only have to trust that God will do what He promises, and do everything He says to do that results in receiving His promises.
There certainly is a dilemma. Belief and confession PRECEDE baptism in your 4-step plan of salvation -- 1. Belief 2. Repent 3. Confess 4. Be baptized so believes unto righteousness/confession made unto salvation PRECEDES water baptism. Period. You can't have it both ways. Your false 4-step plan of salvation results in a contradiction.
No, it does not. Unto indicates toward, not achievement of. We repent toward salvation. We confess toward salvation. But when we are baptized we receive salvation. If you confess Jesus as Lord, then you will obey what He says, and He said that those who believe
AND ARE BAPTIZED will be saved. So if you make Him your Lord, then you will obey Him in baptism.
No, you don't. You trust in baptism for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. If you did trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation then you would be trusting in His death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and not in Jesus Christ + baptism.
If you trust in Him, then you trust in what He said.
If faith never results in action/works then it demonstrates that it's not real, yet faith is still real the very moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation prior to producing good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) You put the cart before the horse.
Wrong. If faith never results in action/works, then it is dead, meaningless, worthless, incapable of bringing salvation. It is a leaky pipe that cannot bring salvation from God to man. Faith is not real until it produces action/works.
Repentance precedes faith and repentance,
Repentance precedes repentance???
and faith are two sides to the same coin. Confession is an expression of faith and not a work for salvation. (Romans 10:8)
Confession is an expression of faith that results in receiving salvation. That means that it is a work that MUST precede salvation, and is required to receive salvation.
Unbelievers do not have their sins washed away regardless of whether or not they were baptized. Your argument leads up to Roman Catholic superstition. "Through His blood" (as in Colossians 1:14) is a reference not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in its chemistry and we contact it in the waters of baptism but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is used similarly to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16). We do not literally contact the blood of Christ in the water and Roman Catholics do not literally contact the blood of Christ in the wine either.
I agree 100%. The blood of Jesus is not in the water, and the wine does not change to become the actual blood of Jesus. These are figurative depictions, shadows of the reality. But, just as you can eat and drink damnation to yourself if you partake of the bread and wine in an unworthy manner, so too if you do not pass through the water you do not encounter the blood of Christ and have your sins removed by the Holy Spirit.
You remain obsessed with baptism because that is what you have placed your faith in for salvation instead of placing your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. What is signified in water baptism is not procured in water baptism. Let that sink in and also let me know when you are ready to repent (change your mind) and place your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation by trusting in His death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation. Works salvation is NO SALVATION AT ALL. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
Read Rom 6:1-7. What does it say? It says that we die to sin in baptism.
"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for the one who has died is freed from sin."
We who have died to sin went through baptism into death so that we could be raised to new life.
Again, read Col 2:11-13. What does it say? It says that we are buried with Christ in baptism and that is where the circumcision without hands occurs.
"and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And when you were dead in your wrongdoings and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings"
