Your Views on The Trinity

God is spirit. Spirit is a thing. The word "Father" is not a thing. It's a name. We are not made up of a father. We are to just name a few... blood, skin, eye balls. We are not made up of a Father.
We are bodies, with souls and have spirits.

Our spirits communicate with the Father. If you have no spirit then your communications are dead.

It is our spirits through which we are born again.... Not our souls and certainly not our flesh.

We are tripartite people.

A. 1 Thessalonians 5:23

“Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

This verse clearly states that man has three separate, distinct parts; the distinction maybe slight but they exist nevertheless.

B. Hebrews 4:12

“For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

I am stopping here for you will not understand. You are blinded. You also are wrong.
 
"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and His Redeemer, the Lord of hosts; 'I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me'." Isaiah 44:6

Obviously Isaiah is speaking of God here.

But John says "... The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life ..."

Obviously speaking of Jesus here.

Both God and Jesus are called "the first and the last". And Isaiah says that there is no God besides Him.

This is DEATH to the anti-Deity theology.


God is also called "Him who is and who was and who is to come, ... the Almighty." Rev.1:4 and 8

Jesus is the same yesterday (He was), and today (He is) and forever (He is to come). Hebrews 13:8

You can't escape the truth that Jesus is God, unless you are a tare among the wheat, planted by Satan - but even then you can't hide the truth.
 
We are bodies, with souls and have spirits.

Our spirits communicate with the Father. If you have no spirit then your communications are dead.

It is our spirits through which we are born again.... Not our souls and certainly not our flesh.

We are tripartite people.

A. 1 Thessalonians 5:23

“Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

This verse clearly states that man has three separate, distinct parts; the distinction maybe slight but they exist nevertheless.

B. Hebrews 4:12

“For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

I am stopping here for you will not understand. You are blinded. You also are wrong.
Your body communicates with a spirit that you call God. And sometimes you call Him Father. But in either case He's a spirit and not a father. Same with you. You can come up with a number of things that you are be it soul, spirit, flesh, skin, eye balls, but you are not made of such parts as a father, uncle, cousin, or son.
 
Confuscious overthinks many things .
This reminds me of a parable of the man who could never see the forest due to all the trees my freind .
A man once took a long journey to look for a beautiful forest wherein he could finally find rest .
Onward and onward he did travel till one day he came unto a man
who stood in the path and told him , friend what do you seek and have wearied yourself day in and day out
to find .
So the man then told him i seek the forest wherein i can have my rest .
And the man says , why dear sir you are already in the forest .
To which the weary man says , What forest , this is no forest , its just billions of trees .
FIGURE IT OUT my friend .
To say water is not water but water is only a title
and that its really hydrogen and oxygen
IS as the man who said I seek hydrogen and oxygen and upon finding it says
MAN this is only water . YOu keep word scrambling .
God is spirit. Sometimes you call Him God and sometimes you call Him Father. But in either case He's a spirit and not a father. Same with you. You can come up with a number of things that you are be it soul, spirit, flesh, skin, eye balls, but you are not made of such parts as a father, uncle, cousin, or son.
 
Disagree.
Disagree? ..... with the bible? ....LOL, LOL, LOL, sure, your choice, this is a free country. ........ :devilish:

so we can take your disagreement with the bible as an acknowledgement of total rebellion against God? thought so, for the scriptures are correct.

A. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" 2 Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

B. WHY THIS OPPOSITION and exalting oneself above all that is called God, (his Word, the bible)? here's why, 2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

have a nice day..... (smile).

101G.
 
We are bodies, with souls and have spirits.

Our spirits communicate with the Father. If you have no spirit then your communications are dead.

It is our spirits through which we are born again.... Not our souls and certainly not our flesh.

We are tripartite people.

A. 1 Thessalonians 5:23

“Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

This verse clearly states that man has three separate, distinct parts; the distinction maybe slight but they exist nevertheless.

B. Hebrews 4:12

“For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

I am stopping here for you will not understand. You are blinded. You also are wrong.
He is as a man that went on a long journey in search of a forest wherein he could find rest .
And day by day and hour by hour he struggled onwards weary and beaten .
After many days of traveling he could barley move
and fell on the path . Along came a man and said hey friend what it is you seek .
And He says i seek the forest wherein i can find rest .
To which the man says YE are in the forest my friend so take your rest .
But he replies , This is not a forest its just billions of trees .
 
Almost every English version translates John 14:17...

similarly to “even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him.” Translators capitalize “Spirit” and use “he” and “him” because of their theology. The Greek word “spirit” is neuter and the text could also be translated as “the spirit of truth” and paired with “which” and “it.” The New American Bible reads “which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it.” Capitalizing the “H” and “S” and using the English pronoun “He” is appropriate when God is being referred to as “the Holy Spirit.” However, when we see the “h” and “s” having the lowercase such as "the holy spirit" and all the pronouns referring to that spirit being impersonal such as “it” and “which” is when the subject under discussion is the gift of God’s nature.
 
Poor peterlag .
IF the fellow ever asks for directions to the beach
if one showed him one he would just say HEY that is no beach that just tons of sand in front of lots of salt hyrdogen oxygen.
Some folks just cannot see the ocean for all the salt water that is in their eyes
nor the forest because of all the trees .
 
Thats not a stick its just wood .
Water is not water its h2o
A car is not a car its just metal and wheels .
Peterlag , give it up man this madness is terrifying .
cant call a spade a spade , cause a spade is not a spade its a card with a funny looking black mark on it .
oh but what a card is not a card , its a piece of paper .
Oh wait paper is not paper its finely cut wood .
Oh wait , see the problem yet .
 
Disagree? ..... with the bible? ....LOL, LOL, LOL, sure, your choice, this is a free country. ........ :devilish:

so we can take your disagreement with the bible as an acknowledgement of total rebellion against God? thought so, for the scriptures are correct.

A. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" 2 Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

B. WHY THIS OPPOSITION and exalting oneself above all that is called God, (his Word, the bible)? here's why, 2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

have a nice day..... (smile).

101G.
I disagree with you.

I disagree with you twisting words, and cherry picking verses to make your point.

And that you believe your points.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie Is truth.
yes, the person who is the First is ALSO, or in addition too the Last.... the same one PERSON, just as in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." the WORD" ..... WITH ..... God and was God..... BINGO, the same one person, the ECHAD.

see how ECHAD work. not a separate and a distinct person, but the same person EQUALLY SHARED in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. and the ORDER is in First and Last as ORDINAL Designations.

This is not as explained in the Bible, this is a rationalization of one seeking the truth but not yet understanding.

We are told in the Holy Scriptures that Mary will be with child after the Holy Spirit.... not the Word... not God, Himself... came upon her. The Holy Spirit is not 1/3 part of God.
 
Thats not a stick its just wood .
Water is not water its h2o
A car is not a car its just metal and wheels .
Peterlag , give it up man this madness is terrifying .
cant call a spade a spade , cause a spade is not a spade its a card with a funny looking black mark on it .
oh but what a card is not a card , its a piece of paper .
Oh wait paper is not paper its finely cut wood .
Oh wait , see the problem yet .
@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
save-image.png
 
I imagine the one Triune God like a 3d being in amongst us as if we were 2d beings.

So His triune nature is comprehensible up to a point and then we are talking about a being that is not finite.

So, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as one triune God can be understood with similar analogies in nature.

Water being ice, steam and liquid..or light when put thru a prism is many many shades of 3 base colours

But then it goes into the three persona of God and the analogies start to only explain a little of what God is really like.

It makes me thinking of a flat piece of paper as us.. in comparison to a very large balloon!
 

If Jesus is not God, would treating him as God be considered IDOLATRY?

Exodus 20:3-5
You shall have no other gods before me… You shall not bow down to them or serve them.

Isaiah 42:8
I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another.

Deuteronomy 6:13
Fear the LORD your God, serve him only...

Matthew 4:10
Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator.

John 4:23
The true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth…

John 17:3
the only true God.

John 5:44
How can you believe, when you accept glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

If Jesus is not the one true God, then directing worship, prayer, or divine honor to him as such (as God Himself), would violate core commandments.

If Jesus is a created being (even uniquely begotten), then worshiping him as God is serving a creature rather than the Creator, which Paul directly condemns.

If Jesus never once instructed people to worship him as God, but always pointed people to the Father, then honoring him as if he were God goes beyond what he himself taught — and then becomes blasphemous or idolatrous.

Jesus distinguishes between himself and “the only God.” If people begin to give divine glory to Jesus, they are shifting that which belongs only to the Father — a move Jesus criticizes.

So would it be idolatry, to make Jesus God then?

Yes! According to the Bible, it would be violating God’s exclusive right to be worshiped as the one true God.
 

If Jesus is not God, would treating him as God be considered IDOLATRY?

Exodus 20:3-5
You shall have no other gods before me… You shall not bow down to them or serve them.

Isaiah 42:8
I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another.

Deuteronomy 6:13
Fear the LORD your God, serve him only...

Matthew 4:10
Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator.

John 4:23
The true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth…

John 17:3
the only true God.

John 5:44
How can you believe, when you accept glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

If Jesus is not the one true God, then directing worship, prayer, or divine honor to him as such (as God Himself), would violate core commandments.

If Jesus is a created being (even uniquely begotten), then worshiping him as God is serving a creature rather than the Creator, which Paul directly condemns.

If Jesus never once instructed people to worship him as God, but always pointed people to the Father, then honoring him as if he were God goes beyond what he himself taught — and then becomes blasphemous or idolatrous.

Jesus distinguishes between himself and “the only God.” If people begin to give divine glory to Jesus, they are shifting that which belongs only to the Father — a move Jesus criticizes.

So would it be idolatry, to make Jesus God then?

Yes! According to the Bible, it would be violating God’s exclusive right to be worshiped as the one true God.
But Jesus is God.

So your question is weak.

By not worshipping Jesus, we are in danger of the Fathers wrath.
 
No... not going back into that.

Are you your father?
101G nor 101G human father is God, but JESUS is. ..... (smile). 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

WHAT! ..... with the Father? yes, with the Father, as he is EQUAL "WITH" the Father who is GOD. ..... (smile), lol, lol, Oh boy. with, with, with, ... God and is God just as John 1:1 clearly states. see you have no clue what the term " WITH" means in identifying the Godhead. ONE PERSON..... (smile).

MT when you gain KNOWLEDGE in the term, "WITH"..... then we can talk.... good day, ... 😇

101G
 
101G nor 101G human father is God, but JESUS is. ..... (smile). 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

WHAT! ..... with the Father? yes, with the Father, as he is EQUAL "WITH" the Father who is GOD. ..... (smile), lol, lol, Oh boy. with, with, with, ... God and is God just as John 1:1 clearly states. see you have no clue what the term " WITH" means in identifying the Godhead. ONE PERSON..... (smile).

MT when you gain KNOWLEDGE in the term, "WITH"..... then we can talk.... good day, ... 😇

101G
No. No talk. But I do hope you will read the following to the end, for it explains my views that are not up for debate.

I know the truth.

But your rational is not good. Why?

You say " you have no clue what the term " WITH" means in identifying the Godhead. ONE PERSON...."

It does not.

1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

An advocate who may be one person does not mean one person joined with another to make one.

An advocate is someone who supports or promotes a cause, policy, or the interests of a group, often by speaking or writing in favor of it. In a legal context, an advocate is a professional who represents and defends clients in court.

1 John 2:1 means that when we sin we have an advocate (Jesus, who is defending us) with the Father.... That advocate is Jesus Christ the righteous:"

You are correct Jesus is God and is 1/3 of the Godhead... but they are not one. The Godhead is 3. They are ECHAD

Kleins Dictionary provides the following succinct entry for this word:

אֲחָדִים some, a few. [pl. of אֶחָד (= one).]
The entry points out that אֲחָדִים is the pluralization of אֶחָד (one). The sense of the verses you provided can be demonstrated in English using the pluralization of the number 'ten' or 'hundred'. In modern English one can express ideas like 'tens of gallons' or 'hundreds of people' when speaking about a grouping of the corresponding denomination. Following these examples you could imagine 'ones of days' or 'single digit days' as a translation of אֲחָדִים.

The pluralization of אֶחָד in Biblical Hebrew is roughly analogous, referring to 'some' or a 'handful' of a thing in the denomination of ones.

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Yachid vs. Echad: The most important verse Jews memorized in the Bible was Deut 6:4: "Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [Echad]!" There are a few words in Hebrew that the Holy Spirit could have used a word the has one exclusive meaning: the numeric, solitary oneness of God ("yachid" or "bad").
Instead the Holy Spirit chose to use the Hebrew word, "echad" which is used most often as a unified one, and sometimes as numeric oneness. For example, when God said in Genesis 2:24 "the two shall become one [echad] flesh" it is the same word for "one" that was used in Deut 6:4.
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This is most troubling for Jews and Anti-Trinitarians since the word yachid, the main Hebrew word for solitary oneness, is never used in reference to God.

Echad (אֶחָד): A Hebrew Term Worthy of Study in Order to Attain More Divine Wisdom in Regard to Relationships

https://www.reachinghigherministrie...er-attain-divine-wisdom-regard-relationships/ (bolding and color changes are mine.....)

Strong’s Concordance 259. echad

echad: one
Original Word: אֶחָד
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: echad
Phonetic Spelling: (ekh-awd’)
Short Definition: one


What is the common thread between the image of God, the Trinity, and the relationships between a married male and female, Christ and His ekklesia (church) & God and Israel? The answer, “echad!”

Let’s take this step by step…

Ephesians 5:31-32
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.


Something to consider about married couples and Christ and the ekklesia…

The word “one” (Greek: μίαν [mian]) in Ephesians 5:31 comes directly from the Hebrew word echad out of Genesis 2:24. Additionally, in Ephesians 5:32, it explicitly says there is a “mystery” relationship between a husband and wife & Christ and the ekklesia, both possessing echad. A study of the Hebrew word echad in many instances in Scripture yields a meaning of “composite unity.” I believe echad helps in deciphering the mystery.

So then, how does “echad” directly relate to Christ and His ekklesia (as it plainly does to a marriage with a husband and wife becoming one-flesh)?

  • So we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. (Rom 12:5)
  • Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?… But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. (1 Cor 6:15,17)
  • Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. (1 Cor 12:27)
  • We are members of [Christ’s] body. (Eph 5:30)
  • Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4, etc…
Additionally, look at Ephesians 4 and what it says about the ekklesia, “There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all” (Eph 4:4-6). Do you see all the “echad” in this (including the Trinity)? How will the ekklesia function as designed by God without echad? It will not, as echad possesses within it peace and unity; an essential for all Godly relationships – a fruit of the Spirit.

Christ and His ekklesia are considered “echad” [one], as per Scripture, just as a husband and wife are!

Another interesting point to consider about married couples, Christ and the ekklesia, and now adding in the idea of the Trinity…

Being born and raised Jewish, there is one verse I know quite well – Deuteronomy 6:4. It is called the Shema. It is the cornerstone verse of the Jewish faith. I have personally chanted it many times in my synagogue worship of the past. Even as a Christian, it is still quite special to me. Whenever I hear it chanted in the Hebrew, and as many other Jewish people I know experience, there is such power when it is recited. In Jewish temple worship, the Shema is chanted when the Ark (where the Torah scrolls are kept, is situated in the front of the synagogue, and is the holiest place in the synagogue) is opened and the Torah is being removed from it. After studying this verse extensively in the past, something quite stark jumped out at me while being in seminary. Within this highly reverential verse to the Jewish faith, the same word echad [“one”] is found – as it is in Ephesians 5:31 and Genesis 2:24. I believe teaching about the Trinity can easily be drawn out of the Shema, and subsequently, teaching about the marriage relationship in conjunction with echad.

The Shema reads like this…

שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יהוה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יהוה אֶחָד
Sham Yisra’eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad. (transliteration of the Hebrew)
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (Deut 6:4)

Notice the 3 references to the Lord in the Shema. The Shema could read, with some scriptural harmonization, like this…

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our [Mighty] God, the [Spirit of the] LORD is one.”

The attributes of ‘mighty’ (Gen 49:24) and ‘Spirit’ (Gen 1:2) are irrefutable biblical attributes of God, before you even leave the first book of the Bible! The words ‘of’ and ‘the’ are insignificant connective additions that simply attach the attribute of “spirit” to the LORD’s name (see John 4:24 for further support).
All courtesy of Isaiah, watch this…
1. The ‘LORD’ is called our Father (Isa 63:16).
2. ‘Mighty God’ is a name for the Son (Isa 9:6–7).
3. The ‘Spirit of the LORD’ is an alias for the Holy Spirit (Isa 11:1–2).


Hence, my persuasion is the Trinity is within the Shema. But even if you reject the idea of the Trinity being implicitly stated, you cannot deny the explicit 3 references to God within it. That is crystal clear by a plain reading of the biblical text.

Additionally, let’s take a further look at Genesis…

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness…And God created man in His Own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” (Gen 1:26-27)

God’s image and the image of a male and a female are equatable according to this passage. Do you see it?

Thus, in summary, the biblical evidence points to…

‘echad’ = image of God (Trinity), male and female in marriage, and Christ and the ekklesia

…oh lest us not forget one more thing…

God’s relationship to Israel is likened to a relationship between a husband (God) and wife (Israel), just like in Genesis 2 and Ephesians 5. This “marital” relationship is referred to directly in the prophetical books of Isaiah 54:5, Jeremiah 3:14,20; 31:32, and Ezekiel 16:32-33.

So adding in this, now echad is possessed in all of these:

‘echad’ = image of God (Trinity), male and female in marriage, Christ and the ekklesia, & God and Israel

Why Did I Go Here
?
Quite simply, to understand any of these relationships in regard to the meaning of “echad” will further assist in understanding all of these relationships more accurately and fully, including marriage. My persuasion is, any denial or resistance to the concept of echad within these foundational relationships found in the Bible will adversely impact the practical side of these vital relationships being lived out. Within marriage, to understand how the Godhead relationship works, or the relationship between God and Israel and/or Christ and His ekklesia; this will prove extremely valuable in order to conduct a marriage relationship in a Godly way. We are called as children of God to, “Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace” (Eph 4:3). How do we do that? By and through ECHAD! And please do not forget, “What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate” (Mark 10:9). Echad is NEVER to be separated; for it is sinful to do so! “For I hate divorce,” says the Lord, the God of Israel” (Mal 2:16a).

Echad – it is an important Hebrew term worthy of further consideration and understanding, this in order to attain more divine wisdom, especially regarding God-honoring relationships!



P.S. On a side note: this is why anyone who asserts that God is done with Israel is making a grave mistake and lacks foundational scriptural understanding. They simply do not understand echad; hence will have problems experiencing something they don’t (or refuse to) know!



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But Jesus is God.

So your question is weak.

By not worshipping Jesus, we are in danger of the Fathers wrath.
The question has come up what will happen to those who worshiped the idol. My take on that is nothing other than they would have just spent their entire life not knowing who God is and not knowing who Jesus Christ is. My question is could that person not even make heaven since they have no clue as who the Lord is. I don't think anyone really knows the heart and thinking of each person. What I do know is if all you have ever believed was to be saved meant that you needed to only do the following 2 things. Than that person might find themselves in a state of shock.

Believe I'm a sinner
Believe Jesus is God
 
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