Worshipping The Son

[Diserner]

Conflating again . Jesus never said no one can see God and live. You added to His words again

What?

I didn't say Jesus said it.

The Bible says it... assuming you think Jesus wrote the Bible, I DON'T KNOW.

 

[Johann]

Take it up with Jesus not me. It’s His authoritative words which are the truth, not your thoughts and the futile thoughts of other men.

Mat 18:16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more Achim b’Moshiach with you, so that by the PI SHNAYIM SHLOSHAH EDIM (by the mouth of two or three witnesses, DEVARIM 19:15) every word shall be established.

ואם־לא ישמע ולקחת עמך עוד אחד או שנים כי על־פי שנים או שלשה עדים יקום

Shalom
J.

 

[civic]

What?

I didn't say Jesus said it.

The Bible says it... assuming you think Jesus wrote the Bible, I DON'T KNOW.

I’ll go with Jesus teaching not your opinion

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

John 5:37
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation

1 Timothy 1:17
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 John 4:12
12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

1 Timothy 6:15-16
which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen

Jesus said the following about God the Father !

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Mat 18:16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more Achim b’Moshiach with you, so that by the PI SHNAYIM SHLOSHAH EDIM (by the mouth of two or three witnesses, DEVARIM 19:15) every word shall be established.

ואם־לא ישמע ולקחת עמך עוד אחד או שנים כי על־פי שנים או שלשה עדים יקום

Shalom
J.

Evasion try sticking to the topic we are discussing . No one saw the Father in the OT. Jesus said no one but Son has seen Him. The Father is invisible and dwells in unapproachable light.

Shalom

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

You guys could never debate a Unitarian they would clean your clock on this issue with your stance. Jesus teaching tears down Unitarianism when it comes to YHWH in the OT.

 

[Johann]

Evasion try sticking to the topic we are discussing . No one saw the Father in the OT. Jesus said no one but Son has seen Him. The Father is invisible and dwells in unapproachable light.

Shalom

hope this helps !!!

Scriptures says otherwise and I am on topic of discussion.

 

[DavidTree]

Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen Hashem [Ex 33:20]. It is Elohim the Ben Yachid [who shares the nature of Hashem, the Chochman Ben Elohim at his side, see very importantly Mishle 8:30; 30:4)], it is he, the one being in the kheyk (bosom) of HaAv, this one is Hashem's definitive midrash (exegesis).

Joh 1:18 [God No one has seen] at any time; the only born son, the one being in the bosom of the father, that one described him.

Does it mean YHVH was NEVER seen or heard in the Torah?

It means exactly what HE said = "No one has seen the Father except HE who is in the Bosom of the Father".

Notice: Jesus said "HE who is in the Bosom of the Father" = Present tense = meaning Jesus was on earth and in Heaven at the same time.

 

[civic]

Scriptures says otherwise and I am on topic of discussion.

Jesus said no man has seen the Father which in the Greek and Hebrew means no man

 

[civic]

It means exactly what HE said = "No one has seen the Father except HE who is in the Bosom of the Father".

Notice: Jesus said "HE who is in the Bosom of the Father" = Present tense = meaning Jesus was on earth and in Heaven at the same time.

Amen as Jesus said : no one has ascended into heaven except the Son of man who is in heaven Omnipresent Son.

 

[Diserner]

I’ll go with Jesus teaching not your opinion

You don't even correctly state my opinions.

Not something Jesus would even approve of.

So maybe less back-patting and more self-reflection would be appropriate.

 

[Johann]

It means exactly what HE said = "No one has seen the Father except HE who is in the Bosom of the Father".

Notice: Jesus said "HE who is in the Bosom of the Father" = Present tense = meaning Jesus was on earth and in Heaven at the same time.

And yet I have shown you Scripture that YHVH was seen and heard in the Old Covenant.
Goodnight.

 

[DavidTree]

Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen Hashem [Ex 33:20]. It is Elohim the Ben Yachid [who shares the nature of Hashem, the Chochman Ben Elohim at his side, see very importantly Mishle 8:30; 30:4)], it is he, the one being in the kheyk (bosom) of HaAv, this one is Hashem's definitive midrash (exegesis).

Joh 1:18 [God No one has seen] at any time; the only born son, the one being in the bosom of the father, that one described him.

Does it mean YHVH was NEVER seen or heard in the Torah?

Exodus ch25
21You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you. 22And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony, about everything which I will give you in commandment to the children of Israel.


Who appeared in the Mercy Seat before Moses? the FATHER or the SON?

 

[civic]

You don't even correctly state my opinions.

Not something Jesus would even approve of.

So maybe less back-patting and more self-reflection would be appropriate.

No man means no man do take it up with the Son of man who is the final authority on all things in scripture.

 

[DavidTree]

And yet I have shown you Scripture that YHVH was seen and heard in the Old Covenant.
Goodnight.

i believe that YHWH(YHVH) is the WORD/preincarnate Jesus

 

[Diserner]

Scriptures says otherwise and I am on topic of discussion.

Absolutely.

It even makes a point of saying "they saw God and lived."

One thing I have desired of the LORD, That will I seek:
That I may dwell in the house of the LORD All the days of my life,
To behold the beauty of the LORD, And to inquire in His temple. (Ps. 27:4 NKJ)

 

[civic]

Scriptures says otherwise and I am on topic of discussion.

No man means exactly what it says - no man, no one , no person , no human etc …

 

[DavidTree]

And yet I have shown you Scripture that YHVH was seen and heard in the Old Covenant.
Goodnight.

Love you my Brother,

Good Night

 

[Johann]

Exodus ch25
21You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you. 22And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony, about everything which I will give you in commandment to the children of Israel.


Who appeared in the Mercy Seat before Moses? the FATHER or the SON?

I have shown you Scripture references that YHVH was seen and heard-no need to repeat myself.
Johann.

 

[civic]

I’m really glad for todays conversation as we are seeing more defective Christology

 

[DavidTree]

Absolutely.

It even makes a point of saying "they saw God and lived."

One thing I have desired of the LORD, That will I seek:
That I may dwell in the house of the LORD All the days of my life,
To behold the beauty of the LORD, And to inquire in His temple. (Ps. 27:4 NKJ)

@dizerner = "If you have seen ME/Jesus you have seen the FATHER"