Worshipping The Son

[praise_yeshua]

I should have bet @civic a penny that you would come through for me.

Claiming victory.... typical nonsense. Just produce the evidence.

 

[Matthias]

Claiming victory.... typical nonsense. Just produce the evidence.

You are the evidence.

So, what about the deal @civic and I have with one another? Do you want in on it?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You are the evidence.

So, what about the deal @civic and I have with one another? Do you want in on it?

I'm not playing your game. I don't see your honesty anywhere in the conversation. I admitted when I made a mistake earlier. You continually appeal to nonsense about "me being the evidence". I will accept @civic explanation of how I am the evidence..... till then, someone else can play your games with you.

 

[Matthias]

I'm not playing your game.

Yes you are. And you’re playing it well.

I don't see your honesty anywhere in the conversation. I admitted when I made a mistake earlier. You continually appeal to nonsense about "me being the evidence". I will accept @civic explanation of how I am the evidence..... till then, someone else can play your games with you.

You’re fooling yourself.

Post #392 is where it begins.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes you are. And you’re playing it well.



You’re fooling yourself.

Post #392 is where it begins.

So you admit that your playing a game and deny your playing a game in the same response. This is why I mentioned "madding" this is bordering on insanity. You know.... no meaningful connection to reality. Your game is silly. I'm not playing a game.

 

[Matthias]

So you admit that your playing a game and deny your playing a game in the same response.

No.

This is why I mentioned "madding" this is bordering on insanity. You know.... no meaningful connection to reality. Your game is silly. I'm not playing a game.

You are playing the game. You can’t help yourself. You have no self control.

 

[Complete]

We have an example of worship in Rev 19:10 that clearly establish the actions of a worshipper.​

​

Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.​

​

Notice the writer is forbidden to "worship" him.....​

'And I fell at his feet to worship him.
And he said unto me, See thou do it not:
I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:
worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.'
(Rev 19:10)

Hello there, @praise_yeshua ,

The one before whose feet John fell in Revelation 19:10 (above), and whom John (mistakenly) sought to worship, was the angel of the Lord (see Rev. 1:1). It was the angel who said to him, 'I am thy fellowservant,' ... 'and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus'. It was the angel who told him to, 'Worship God'. Yes?

Notice in contrast the actions of Christ....​

​

Mar 7:24 And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid.​

Mar 7:25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:​

Mar 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.​

Mar 7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.​

Mar 7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.​

Mar 7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.​

Mar 7:30 And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.​

​

Notice the women. A Gentile "dog".​

Notice the actions. She fell at His feet.​

Notice the challenging words of Christ. I'm not here for you....​

Notice how she continue to humbly worship.....​

Notice the prayer... Lord please help me.​

Notice the answer..... An answer that many did not get that desperately desired it.​

​

So we have Jesus being worshipped. We have Jesus receiving prayer. We have Jesus doing what only God can do......​

​

Sure looks wonderful to me. Oh what a Savior.​

'He that honoureth not the Son
honoureth not the Father which hath sent Him. '
(Joh 5:23)

Is there more....​

​

Luk 7:37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,​

Luk 7:38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.​

​

Weeping. Washing dirt feet with the teary hair of a desperate women.​

​

If Jesus is just a "fellow servant" like the Christian Unitarian insist..... Then wouldn't Jesus had been wrong not to stop these people from worshipping Him. I know I sure do worship Him and you Christian Unitarians insist I've fabricated an idol.​

​

I tell you what, I take Him any day over ANY of you. He is so wonderful to me.​

* Our fellowship is with the Father and with the Son, (1 John 1:3) by the Spirit.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Matthias]

“Listen! I am going to make those people from the synagogue of Satan - who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying - Look, I will make them come and bow down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.”

(Revelation 3:9, NET)

What do we have going on here?

 

[praise_yeshua]

“Listen! I am going to make those people from the synagogue of Satan - who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying - Look, I will make them come and bow down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.”

(Revelation 3:9, NET)

What do we have going on here?

Certainly not worship. When you bow before King Charles do you worship him?

 

[praise_yeshua]

No.



You are playing the game. You can’t help yourself. You have no self control.

It isn't a game to me. God has the record. I have nothing else to say to you concerning your games..I will respond to facts and Scriptures. Not your appeal to external authority.

 

[Matthias]

Certainly not worship. When you bow before King Charles do you worship?

The NET footnote: ”The verb here is proskunesousin, normally used to refer to worship.”

We saw earlier in the thread that the Gk. proskuneo is the equivalent of the Heb. shachah.

It certainly is worship.

 

[Matthias]

It isn't a game to me. God has the record. I have nothing else to say to you concerning your games..I will respond to facts and Scriptures. Not your appeal to external authority.

A new beginning for you. Make the most of it.

 

[Complete]

' ... Where is He that is born King of the Jews?
for we have seen His star in the east,
and are come to worship Him'
(Mat.2:2 )

'And again, when He bringeth in The First-begotten into the world,
He saith, And let all the angels of God worship Him.' (Deut. 32:43 [Septuagint])
(Heb 1:6)

Hello @praise_yeshua,

1) The wise men of the East sought to worship the newborn King. and
2) God instructs the angels of God to worship His First-begotten Son.

'For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit,
and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.'
(Php 3:3)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Diserner]

The NET footnote: ”The verb here is proskunesousin, normally used to refer to worship.”

It just means falling prostrate.

You can do that for many reasons, most involve respect, pleading, gratitude.

But certainly to argue it means ascribing all worth and glory and power and honor to the person you fall to is.... well, honestly, pretty ridiculous.

 

[Complete]

“Listen! I am going to make those people from the synagogue of Satan - who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying - Look, I will make them come and bow down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.”

(Revelation 3:9, NET)

What do we have going on here?

Hello @Matthias,

The context explains:-

'And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write;
These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David,
He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it:
for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My Name.
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;
behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,
which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out:
and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, which is new Jerusalem,
which cometh down out of heaven from My God:
and I will write upon him My new name.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.'
(Rev 3:7-13)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Fred]

“Listen! I am going to make those people from the synagogue of Satan - who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying - Look, I will make them come and bow down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.”

(Revelation 3:9, NET)

What do we have going on here?

People worshiping Christ before (in the presence of) others.

Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. (KJV)

Revelation 14:3
And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. (NASB, 1995)

Whenever "a new song" is used in the Bible it always refers to worship. This doesn't mean they were worshiping the four living creatures and elders, but that they were in their presence (i.e., before them).

 

[praise_yeshua]

The NET footnote: ”The verb here is proskunesousin, normally used to refer to worship.”

We saw earlier in the thread that the Gk. proskuneo is the equivalent of the Heb. shachah.

It certainly is worship.

You didn't answer the question. Do you worship King Charles when you bow to him? I asked you for a reason. There is no way I would believe you would actually worship your monarchy.

The NET doesn't use the word "worship" because the context doesn't establish that it is worship. The NET is often very inconsistent with their choice of words. You can tell the context does not establish the word choice of "worship" because of the actions of the those bowing. NONE of them were worshipping. As referenced in Luke chapter 7 in my OP, this is true worship. So, I ask again. Do you worship when you bow the knee to your King Charles?

Like all other Unitarians, you seek to diminish the value and quality of Character associated with Jesus Christ. Hopefully you will actually deal with the differences in the actions of the women in Luke 7 and these you mention.

In like manner, Charles is your King. You don't worship him when bow the knee to your monarch. Bowing the knee can mean many different things. the people are being FORCED to comply. They are not willingly doing anything. Worship is associated with adoration. There is no adoration in these verses.

You're conflating.

 

[Fred]

There is no allowance to worship any other deity besides Yahweh. That’s the key word - deity. Yahweh is the only deity you shall worship.

Others besides Yahweh can be, and are, legitimately worshipped in the scriptures. None of them are deities, nor are any of them worshipped as deities.

Thus, proving Jesus is deity=YHWH in that He (Jesus) receives worship in equality with the Father.

Revelation 5:13-14
(13) And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."
(14) And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

 

[Matthias]

You didn't answer the question. Do you worship King Charles when you bow to him? I asked you for a reason. There is no way I would believe you would actually worship your monarchy.

I’ve never met King Charles and he isn’t my monarch. If he were my monarch then of course I would worship him.

The saints will reign as kings with Messiah in the coming kingdom of God. The people being reigned over will worship their kings.

Worship is so much broader than you are presently able to acknowledge.

The NET doesn't use the word "worship" because the context doesn't establish that it is worship. The NET is often very inconsistent with their choice of words. You can tell the context does not establish the word choice of "worship" because of the actions of the those bowing. NONE of them were worshipping. As referenced in Luke chapter 7 in my OP, this is true worship. So, I ask again. Do you worship when you bow the knee to your King Charles?

If I were to bow the knee to King Charles it would be an act of worship.

Like all other Unitarians, you seek to diminish the value and quality of Character associated with Jesus Christ. Hopefully you will actually deal with the differences in the actions of the women in Luke 7 and these you mention.

Like all trinitarians, you worship a deity which is the product of compromising with paganism, as acknowledged by those who were involved in developing the doctrine of the Trinity.

Jesus of Nazareth would never worship your deity. He worships his God and my God.

In like manner, Charles is your King. You don't worship him when bow the knee to your monarch. Bowing the knee can mean many different things. the people are being FORCED to comply. They are not willingly doing anything. Worship is associated with adoration. There is no adoration in these verses.

You're conflating.

Are the people being forced to comply in Revelation 3:9? Yes, they are.

Have you noticed that several trinitarians have been using commentaries in their posts to me? I don’t think they‘re making an appeal to authority in doing so but, if you’re going to be consistent, you must. Will you be calling them on it? I don’t know if you possess the character to do it or not. I’ll find out.

 

[Matthias]

Hello @Matthias,

The context explains:-

'And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write;
These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David,
He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it:
for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My Name.
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;
behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,
which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out:
and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, which is new Jerusalem,
which cometh down out of heaven from My God:
and I will write upon him My new name.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.'
(Rev 3:7-13)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thanks. Unlike the translation I quoted, the translation you quoted does use the word worship. The translation I quoted contains it only in a footnote. The translation you quoted contains it in the text of the translation. Your translation is correct. I intentionally used the translation I quoted from to achieve my purpose.