"Works Salvation"

[DavidTree]

@DavidTree

David, I see no connection in Leviticus 16, with what you are saying, concerning with what you called Holy Spirit fire that God desires to baptize from the altar in heaven, especially so in light of NT scriptures, which must interpret for us the OT scriptures, if not, then every man can form his own interpretation of God's word, without scriptures~which the RCC are famous for. We certainly want to avoid following her whorish ways.

"full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the Lord"
David, these were bright lively coals, not smoking and half extinct; these burning coals denoted the sufferings of Christ, which were properly punishments for the sins he bore, flowed from the wrath of God comparable to fire, were the curses of a fiery law, and equal to the sufferings of the wicked, often expressed by fire; they were many, and very painful and excruciating, though no ways inconsistent with the love of God to him as his Son, for they were endured by him as the surety of his people, and by which he expressed his flaming love and affection for them: he himself is altar, sacrifice, and priest, the altar which sanctifies the gift; and the coals as on the altar, denote the sufferings of Christ as upon him, which he was able to bear; and the taking off the coals signifies the cessation of his sufferings; and the altar, coals, and taking of them off, being before the Lord and in his sight, show that Christ, as a divine Person, is, and always was before him; that his sufferings were ever in view, being appointed and foretold by him, and when endured were grateful to him, a sacrifice of a sweet smelling savour; and that the cessation of them was in his presence, and according to his will; and Christ now is the Lamb in the midst of the throne, as though he had been slain, where, as such, he is always beheld with pleasure and acceptance by the Lord

"and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small"~
This may represent the intercession of Christ our high priest for his people; for as the prayers of the saints are set before the Lord as incense, ( Psalms 141:2 ) ; so the intercession and mediation of Christ in favour of the acceptance of their prayers is signified by "much incense", ( Revelation 8:3 ) ; and which is always acceptable to God, and may well be expressed by sweet incense: handfuls of it may denote the largeness of his intercession, being for all the elect of God, and for all things for them they stand in need of; and the infinite perfection and virtue of his person, blood, righteousness, and sacrifice, to make his intercession effectual: and being "beaten small" may signify his intercession made for particular persons, and those the meanest. (Much of this we are indebted to John Gill and men before him.)


David I would like to come back and look in-depth at these scripture, for there is no connection between Leviticus 16 and Acts 2. Totally two different subjects under consideration. You do know that our Lord was never baptized with fire in the sense in which the Pentecostals teaches; he indeed had a baptism to be baptized with, but it was the one mentioned in Leviticus 16!

Mark 10:38​

“But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?”

I am coming back, very soon.

David, I see no connection in Leviticus 16, with what you are saying, concerning with what you called Holy Spirit fire that God desires to baptize from the altar in heaven,

i know = very few do

Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal he had taken from the altar with a pair of tongs.
He touched my lips with it and said, “See, this coal has touched your lips. Now your guilt is removed, and your sins are forgiven.”

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

It takes much work to not understand the simplicity of Rom 6:16.

There is only one of two fates awaiting man;
1) condemnation
2) salvation

Since each one must meet one of these two fates Paul therefore says we each are serving either one of two masters;
1) sin unto death (condemnation)
or
2) obedience unto righteousness (salvation)

Faith only erroneously claims (having cited Rom 11:6) "no works" at all, no works of any kind including obedience are necessary to salvation which means faith only rejects serving 'obedience unto righteousness'" leaving only the master of "sin unto death' to serve.

"Sin unto death" .....sin IS disobedience, sin is the opposite of obedience...... "sin unto death" is in opposition to "obedience unto righteousness".

SIN IS disobediance indeed my friend .
But as i have often long said and wrote
Many are following another jesus , and that jesus sure seems
to overlook many OF THE TRUE JESUS warnings and reminders
as well as those warnings and reminders given by the apostels .
IF IT AINT LIGHT and GRAVEY and SMOOTH
many have NO EAR FOR IT . that my friend is a reminder TO US ALL
that it is HIGH time we all get back into the bible and to learn for ourselves
what many men have twisted unto their own destruction and unto the destruction of the hearer
and doer of their own twisted words . I have been very concerned and highly fearful
for many in christendom in this last hour as i see MANY going down the wrong
very broad , very inclusive and sin accepting , koran and budda kissing false love road
of what they all believe leads to GOD and they beleive will usher in PEACE N SAFETY unto this world .
NOPE . ITS GONNA USHER IN THIS , SUDDEN DESTRUCTION upon them all
as they had made and loved a lie . This is not gonna bode well at all for any on that broad diverse inclusive
love path . CAUSE IT DARN SURE AINT OF GOD , NOR LEADS TO GOD .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

i know = very few do

Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal he had taken from the altar with a pair of tongs.
He touched my lips with it and said, “See, this coal has touched your lips. Now your guilt is removed, and your sins are forgiven.”

It seems even less and less these days
even know or understand , within christendom itself , the actual gospel of truth .
If one cannot even believe in the WORDS of CHRIST
the things that are quite easily understood by even the babes who come unto him ,
THEN how on earth are they gonna see more revelation OF THE TRUTH
when they cannot see EVEN THE SIMPLE TRUTH , by grace revealed unto them
about the GOSPEL of CHRIST . IF folks beleive a lie
HOW THEN can they know TRUTH .
THERE BE ONLY ONE who can free a man from the powers of darkness
and of satan . HIS NAME BE JESUS THE CHRIST
and yet many within christendom have done exactly as did the jews .
What did the jews make claim of
WE HAVE ONE FATHER , ONE GOD .
yet JESUS himself told them ye are of your father the devil .
NOW WHY was that do you suppose . BECAUSE IF ONE IS OF GOD they would have HEARD AND BELEIVED
HIS WORDS , HIM .
So lets foward this to today .
Because many within christendom can claim they hear of CHRIST , THAT CHRIST is their savoir
and yet i tell us all
their savoir is a lie they beleive will bring peace n safety on earth . Their savoir
IS that which is of anti christ which as made the road to GODVERY DARN broad .
MANY are hearing of another spirit which sure can make the cliam thus sayeth the LORD
but its NOT THE LORD or HIS WORDS it does point too nor speak of ......................

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

amen

the woman is in reality the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
the seed in christ
and her offspring would be the church (us) which would also include the children of Abraham who get saved.

There be something small i would like to correct concerning this truth you brought .
You said and her OFFSPRING would be the church . WHICH IS and are both the beleiving jews and gentiles
WHO both truly are THE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM . that is how that should have been stated .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Most people I see downplay sin are either licentious or legalistic.

Licentious says I can sin all i want it does not matter

and a legalist must lower the law so they can actually keep it. since their salvation is based on merit. and not grace.

A legalist will always pick and choose
as do many .
For i have seen many whose faith be in their own works indeed my freind .
And they go about often to teach meats , drinks and days
as even the law .
And beleive you me they will push things onto people that were never sin to begin with
and WILL OVERLOOK things that are sin .
WANNA example .
I once knew an adventists
who preached to me about not eating meats .
OF course i did not argue with him , due to that pertains to the conscious of men .
BUT THEN i told him of why i was single and had not remarried
HIS ANSWER WAS , HEY ITS OKAY IF YOU DO , GOD GIVES GRACE .
DID you catch that .
HE seems to NOT BELEIVE GOD giveth grace when it does come to meats drinks and days
SEEING its not sin to do or not to do .
BUT THEN when it came to the actual SIN of adultery
HE MADE A WAY AROUND ALL THAT .
So in essence he is saying , HOW DARE THEE EAT MEAT , YESHALL DIE
but then says HOW DARE THEE KEEP JESUS SAYINGS about REMARRIAGE
for GOD GIVETH GRACE TO DENY JESUS OWN TEACHINGS . people are lost these days big time .

 

[Marvelloustime]

A legalist will always pick and choose
as do many .
For i have seen many whose faith be in their own works indeed my freind .
And they go about often to teach meats , drinks and days
as even the law .
And beleive you me they will push things onto people that were never sin to begin with
and WILL OVERLOOK things that are sin .
WANNA example .
I once knew an adventists
who preached to me about not eating meats .
OF course i did not argue with him , due to that pertains to the conscious of men .
BUT THEN i told him of why i was single and had not remarried
HIS ANSWER WAS , HEY ITS OKAY IF YOU DO , GOD GIVES GRACE .
DID you catch that .
HE seems to NOT BELEIVE GOD giveth grace when it does come to meats drinks and days
SEEING its not sin to do or not to do .
BUT THEN when it came to the actual SIN of adultery
HE MADE A WAY AROUND ALL THAT .
So in essence he is saying , HOW DARE THEE EAT MEAT , YESHALL DIE
but then says HOW DARE THEE KEEP JESUS SAYINGS about REMARRIAGE
for GOD GIVETH GRACE TO DENY JESUS OWN TEACHINGS . people are lost these days big time .

@Tothalordbeallglory
“And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19‬:‭9‬ ‭KJV‬

 

[Marvelloustime]

SIN IS disobediance indeed my friend .
But as i have often long said and wrote
Many are following another jesus , and that jesus sure seems
to overlook many OF THE TRUE JESUS warnings and reminders
as well as those warnings and reminders given by the apostels .
IF IT AINT LIGHT and GRAVEY and SMOOTH
many have NO EAR FOR IT . that my friend is a reminder TO US ALL
that it is HIGH time we all get back into the bible and to learn for ourselves
what many men have twisted unto their own destruction and unto the destruction of the hearer
and doer of their own twisted words . I have been very concerned and highly fearful
for many in christendom in this last hour as i see MANY going down the wrong
very broad , very inclusive and sin accepting , koran and budda kissing false love road
of what they all believe leads to GOD and they beleive will usher in PEACE N SAFETY unto this world .
NOPE . ITS GONNA USHER IN THIS , SUDDEN DESTRUCTION upon them all
as they had made and loved a lie . This is not gonna bode well at all for any on that broad diverse inclusive
love path . CAUSE IT DARN SURE AINT OF GOD , NOR LEADS TO GOD .

@Tothalordbeallglory
“But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2‬:‭17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

i know = very few do

Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal he had taken from the altar with a pair of tongs.
He touched my lips with it and said, “See, this coal has touched your lips. Now your guilt is removed, and your sins are forgiven.”

Let me sum up something .
you already know this my friend but for good reason do i say it anway .
THERE BE ONLY ONE who can set a man free from the powers of darkness and of satan .
HIS NAME BE JESUS THE CHRIST and YE MUST BELIEVE ON HIM .
now for a grave reminder as well
BUT if one cometh to a jesus that the very darkness itself presented to them , HOW ON EARTH
can they be saved by believing ON That jesus when its creator was the king of darkness
who did nothing but feed the flesh of men
and presented a lie by which if they do beleive THEY WILL SURELY PERISH . satan is slick my friend .
But the sheep do not heed him , FOR JESUS has the sheep and THE SHEPARD
and not the hirelings of men gone wrong , they do follow . The voice of a stranger they will not heed
for that voice DO CONTRADICT TRUTH and it do know how to twist such lovely scriptures
UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION . David my concern for this people has not decreased
ITS ONLY INCREASED . THE HOUR DRAWS NIGH when GREAT Shall be the wailing OF ALL
who loved a lie . And the time of our own tribulations are at the door as well .

 

[Marvelloustime]

yes my friend . the simple beauty of it is
And WHO DID abraham BELEIVE . GOD ALL MIGHTY
and thus BELEIVING HIM HE obeyed HIM .
WHEN GOD SPEAKS
those whose faith is in him DO BELEIVE HIS WORDS and DO THEM .
And now a word .
From long , long ago came this word and IT IS TRUTH and was Spoken BY THE TRUTH .
And now for the word spoken long ago .
HE who is of GOD hears the words OF GOD
He who is not of GOD hears not His words . JESUS SPOKE THAT
even as he also told
them
about abraham . HOW HE heard GOD
and yet how these men DID NOT and actually went about to Kill Him .
HE who is of GOD hears us
and HE who is not of GOD hears not us . JOHN would later write that too my friend .
SO allow a small summation .
All other religoins , to include atheists too
DO NOT HEAR GOD . For had they heard HIM
they would have HEARD HIS CHRIST and had repented of their wicked relgion and mindsets and proclaimed faith IN JESUS THE CHRIST . FOR JESUS CAME FORTH OF THE FATHER .
I think you already know why i am reminding us of this my freind .
because interfaith interreligious dialgoue
Will BE THE END OF ANY AND OF ALL who do enter into its convenant
and beleive its lie . The second death will be their end .
NO LIE is of the TRUTH
AS NO LIE IS OF GOD . But beware men for men can and do lie
and beware the cry of the father of lies WHO has seduced many
CAUSE we darn sure know HE CAN LIE .

@Tothalordbeallglory
“We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

i know = very few do

Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal he had taken from the altar with a pair of tongs.
He touched my lips with it and said, “See, this coal has touched your lips. Now your guilt is removed, and your sins are forgiven.”

if from the darkness we do heed a jesus , a love and an image of what it calleth GOD
TELL ME , what did we love . WAS IT THE GOD , HIS CHRIST HIS WORDS , HIS LIGHT we walked in ...............
OR was it Marvel not because even satan himself can appear AS an angel of light
and thus its no marvel his own men can too appear as men of righteousness .
JESUS WARNED US ALL about something .
HERE IT IS .
Take heed HOW ye hear
For if the light that is in thee BE DARKNESS , THEN GREAT IS THAT DARKNESS .
MANY follow the darkness beleiving it to be the light
and yet their eyes are towards their sins and thier lies
LIGHT EXPOSES sins and lies . NOT implies those sins and lies are no longer sins and lies .
SOMEONE has been real busy LYING TO THIS PEOPLE .
and just as JESUS warned many false prophets and teachers HAVE abounded .
Inquity has abounded and many have waxed ice cold to the TRUTH .
And many now follow their pernseicous ways of EVEN BY THEM JESUS HIMSELF
HIS GOSPEL ITSELF , IS NOW EVIL SPOKEN of and seen has hate speech . WE got a serious deluison david .
ITS a real nasty one . that which is of anti christ has BEEN AT WORK
and now in this last hour is morphing into a massive one man with one heart WITH ALL OUT rebellion
towards GOD ,CHRIST and HIS saints , AND HIS WORDS OF TRUTH by which one could be saved .
ITS A REAL nasty delusion this false love stuff truly is my friend .

 

[Seabass]

SIN IS disobediance indeed my friend .

meaning salvation is IMPOSSIBLE as long as one disobeys God's word.

But as i have often long said and wrote
Many are following another jesus , and that jesus sure seems
to overlook many OF THE TRUE JESUS warnings and reminders
as well as those warnings and reminders given by the apostels .
IF IT AINT LIGHT and GRAVEY and SMOOTH
many have NO EAR FOR IT . that my friend is a reminder TO US ALL
that it is HIGH time we all get back into the bible and to learn for ourselves
what many men have twisted unto their own destruction and unto the destruction of the hearer
and doer of their own twisted words . I have been very concerned and highly fearful
for many in christendom in this last hour as i see MANY going down the wrong
very broad , very inclusive and sin accepting , koran and budda kissing false love road
of what they all believe leads to GOD and they beleive will usher in PEACE N SAFETY unto this world .
NOPE . ITS GONNA USHER IN THIS , SUDDEN DESTRUCTION upon them all
as they had made and loved a lie . This is not gonna bode well at all for any on that broad diverse inclusive
love path . CAUSE IT DARN SURE AINT OF GOD , NOR LEADS TO GOD .

Heb 5:9 Christ is the Author of salvation unto all those that OBEY Him.

 

[DavidTree]

if from the darkness we do heed a jesus , a love and an image of what it calleth GOD
TELL ME , what did we love . WAS IT THE GOD , HIS CHRIST HIS WORDS , HIS LIGHT we walked in ...............
OR was it Marvel not because even satan himself can appear AS an angel of light
and thus its no marvel his own men can too appear as men of righteousness .
JESUS WARNED US ALL about something .
HERE IT IS .
Take heed HOW ye hear
For if the light that is in thee BE DARKNESS , THEN GREAT IS THAT DARKNESS .
MANY follow the darkness beleiving it to be the light
and yet their eyes are towards their sins and thier lies
LIGHT EXPOSES sins and lies . NOT implies those sins and lies are no longer sins and lies .
SOMEONE has been real busy LYING TO THIS PEOPLE .
and just as JESUS warned many false prophets and teachers HAVE abounded .
Inquity has abounded and many have waxed ice cold to the TRUTH .
And many now follow their pernseicous ways of EVEN BY THEM JESUS HIMSELF
HIS GOSPEL ITSELF , IS NOW EVIL SPOKEN of and seen has hate speech . WE got a serious deluison david .
ITS a real nasty one . that which is of anti christ has BEEN AT WORK
and now in this last hour is morphing into a massive one man with one heart WITH ALL OUT rebellion
towards GOD ,CHRIST and HIS saints , AND HIS WORDS OF TRUTH by which one could be saved .
ITS A REAL nasty delusion this false love stuff truly is my friend .

JESUS Says "if your light be darkness, how great is that darkness"

 

[Red Baker]

@Doug Brents

Cornelius was a saved believer in God before Jesus' death. But the requirements for salvation changed from the OT to the NT, and so Cornelius needed to come to belief in Jesus under the NT. There may have been a grace period (my thought, not mentioned in Scripture at all) for those who lived during the first few years of transition from the OT to the NT. But either way, those who lived after Jesus' death and resurrection were required to come to belief in Jesus to be saved.

Greetings Doug,

Running a tight schedule for the next two days, since we are leaving to head to the beautiful gulf of AMERICA Friday morning, the Lord willing, with a brief stop over in Milton, Ga, where one of my daughters lives and we all are going together for a week.

You said: "Cornelius was a saved believer in God before Jesus' death."

Exactly when we do not know, but was indeed a child of God, before Peter arrived. What Peter brought to Cornelius and to his household was information concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ, in order to help him to be saved in a practical sense, with more of the knowledge of truth, so that the Gentiles as well as many of Jews would be well grounded in the truth of the gospel, concerning Jesus Christ, and the benefits of knowing the truth, which is Christ in you, the hope glory. Them speaking in tongues, and being baptized into Jesus Christ's religion, they were well on their way of being grounded. Peter brought the message of Jesus Christ, grounding in the faith of Jesus, which in of itself is a salvation that all of us experience many times over during our life as a child of God.

Acts 11:14-17​

“Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?”

Doug, here is the salvation that Cornelius did not have~he knew NOTHING of the Spirit of God, and this is why God sent Peter to the Gentiles, that they too would come to see and understanding this gift to each NT believer, which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory. What God gave to Cornelius was THE KNOWLEDGE OF IT, so they too would depend on Him, for everything, and not on themselves.

Doug, all since the word of God has been completed, we have knowledge of the gift of the Spirit through the written word of God, we will never experience what many of the saints did during the reformation period of going from the OT to NT rellgion of Jesus Christ, (Hebrews 2:4) by faith in the scriptures we know that we have the Spirit of God, for without Him we can do nothing pleasing unto God. We use Him daily, almost every hour~we never give a thought of doing anything without His guidance.

Again, you are using circumstantial evidence to contradict clear Biblical truth. We cannot be saved unless we believe in Jesus (Rom 10:9-14), and we cannot believe in Jesus unless we have heard the Gospel.

Doug, amazing that you would say something like that, with so much of the scriptures saying otherwise. Doug, one is first born of God, and THEN by his new man he has the power to see, believe, and understand spiritual truths, but never could he do otherwise, impossible. I will also add, by that statement, you have just closed the door of salvation to all heathens, both OT and NT ever being born of the Spirit of God, also; you have given no hope for any infants dying who had not the power to believe, since there is no such doctrine as the age of accountability, we all were IN ADAM and suffered the same condemnation that he suffered for his disobedience ~ death and that eternal, unless God's mercy is shown to us. Also, you give no hope for the mentally impaired, etc.

Question for you~Is it not true, that mine and your best acts and most spiritual acts of faith is mixed with SIN? Of course it is, so God would never accept any works coming from us, since the law of God demands PERFECT obedience before one can enter into eternal life.

The point of Peter's statement is not that Cornelius is already saved, but that it doesn't matter who your parents are, or from which nation you hale, or in what city you live that determines if you are acceptable to God. What makes you acceptable to God is that you fear Him and obey Him.

Doug, if a man fear God and can obey him, which Cornelius did both, which nature in Cornelius did this, certainly not his flesh?

Romans 7:18​

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”

The flesh can not do spiritual acts pleasing unto God, one must be born of God before one can do such spiritual acts.

Romans 8:8​

“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

But you say otherwise, this should concern you deeply.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

JESUS Says "if your light be darkness, how great is that darkness"

HE sure did indeed my friend . OH HE surely did say this my friend .
HE said many many other things too while on earth
and then later BY THE SPIRIT TO the apostels who also wrote such INSPIRED TRUTH .
EVERY WORD OF GOD IS TRUTH .
YET it darn sure seems many sure dont seem to love them words and rather do much to twist such words .
AND WHO DID THAT first .
WHO SOLD EVE a lie with a part truth that they would simply become as gods to know good and evil .
WHY NONE OTHER than the prince of lies that ol sepent .
Surely ye shall not DIE , BIG FAT LIE THAT ONE WAS and ever since death has come upon all men .
But what a truth he used and twisted to imply that they would not die
but only this good of knowing good and evil would come upon them .
MAN is he a liar or what .
But GOD KNEW . HE ALWAYS KNEW what WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE
to save man , for with man this is impossible . OH IMPOSSIBLE I SAY
for man to save himself . But did i say this first
OR DID ANOTHER SAY IT FIRST .
LORD who then can be saved . WITH MEN , now lets do us a wee bit of trivia
so as i can compare todays LOST MINDSET of fake love
WITH WHAT JESUS ACTUALLY SAYS .
Todays jesus seems to say when asked , LORD WHO then can be saved ,
IT says OH it matters not what one beleived , what religoin they followed
hey just lovey do , feed some poor .
RATHER ODD cause we both know that AINT what JESUS said .
HE said this , WITH MAN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE . YEAH , IMPOSSIBLE
but NOT WITH GOD . AND WE BOTH KNOW WHO GOD PREDETERMINED
WOULD be the savoir of the world and that GOD pre determined
That by the preaching of the gospel all who do BELEIVE , NOT REJECTED , BELEIVE in HIM will be saved .
But alas the serepent says SURELY THEY WONT PERISH , GOD is big , HIS LOVE is massive
HIS road is broad ,
ONLY many seem to darn sure have forgotten something , OR IN TRUTH never knew it to begin with .
AND that is this . OH I KNOW GOD IS HUGE , HIS LOVE is great
And that HIS LOVE wont DENY TRUTH . yet their love DOES deny the TRUTH
THE VERY TRUTH ITSELF . I AM THE TRUTH , THE WAY AND THE LIFE
and no man cometh to the FATHER BUT BY ME .
MANY do DENY GOD . YEAH i said GOD , because GOD IS HIS WORD
and they SURELY DO DENY HIS WORD and words .

 

[DavidTree]

meaning salvation is IMPOSSIBLE as long as one disobeys God's word.


Heb 5:9 Christ is the Author of salvation unto all those that OBEY Him.

the workings of faith are the outward manifestation of the Spirit of God inside us

Everything begins with the Word of God = the LORD ="Abraham believe the Word and it was credited to him as Righteousness"

Abraham obeyed the Voice of God = "Today if you hear His Voice harden not your hearts as in the day of wilderness"

this agrees with "obedience" to that which God Speaks, which must first enter our hearts/spirit

 

[Selah]

By Grace?

Yes, by Grace.

This dispensation of Grace began when Christ Jesus was crucified on the cross. All sins were forgiven by Him for those who would believe in His name. This gift was given to us freely by God's grace so that we could be saved and inherit eternal life. When Jesus returns, this grace-based period will come to an end.

s e l a h

 

[Doug Brents]

@Doug Brents

Greetings Doug,

Running a tight schedule for the next two days, since we are leaving to head to the beautiful gulf of AMERICA Friday morning, the Lord willing, with a brief stop over in Milton, Ga, where one of my daughters lives and we all are going together for a week.

You said: "Cornelius was a saved believer in God before Jesus' death."

Exactly when we do not know, but was indeed a child of God, before Peter arrived.

He was a believer in God before Peter arrived. But that would have only made him saved under the OT, not the NT. He was now in the NT, and needed to believe in Jesus to be saved under the NT. He did not yet even know the Gospel of Jesus, so He was not saved under the NT before Peter preached to him.

What Peter brought to Cornelius and to his household was information concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ, in order to help him to be saved in a practical sense, with more of the knowledge of truth, so that the Gentiles as well as many of Jews would be well grounded in the truth of the gospel, concerning Jesus Christ, and the benefits of knowing the truth, which is Christ in you, the hope glory.

There is no practical sense (or any other sense) of salvation. You either are saved, or you are not saved. There is no kind-of saved, no almost saved, etc. Either you are or you are not.

Them speaking in tongues, and being baptized into Jesus Christ's religion, they were well on their way of being grounded. Peter brought the message of Jesus Christ, grounding in the faith of Jesus, which in of itself is a salvation that all of us experience many times over during our life as a child of God.

Acts 11:14-17​

“Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?”

Doug, here is the salvation that Cornelius did not have~he knew NOTHING of the Spirit of God, and this is why God sent Peter to the Gentiles, that they too would come to see and understanding this gift to each NT believer, which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory. What God gave to Cornelius was THE KNOWLEDGE OF IT, so they too would depend on Him, for everything, and not on themselves.

If they didn't have knowledge of it, then they didn't have it. Cornelius did not have salvation in Christ before Peter arrived. Peter didn't just tell him about what he already had, he brought it with him. As verse 14 above says clearly, "and he [Peter] will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household."
Clearly Cornelius was not yet saved under the NT (he was not "in Christ"), because Peter was to speak the words that would bring salvation to him.

Doug, amazing that you would say something like that, with so much of the scriptures saying otherwise. Doug, one is first born of God, and THEN by his new man he has the power to see, believe, and understand spiritual truths, but never could he do otherwise, impossible.

That is a Satan spawned lie to get us to think we are saved but leave us wallowing in sin and condemned to Hell. Scripture is very clear that we must hear the Word of the Gospel in order to believe it, and we must believe it in order to call on the name of Jesus, and we must call on the name of Jesus to become saved (Rom 10:9-14). Everywhere in Scripture there are statements that man must do this, that, or the other IN ORDER TO BE saved.
Acts 2:38
Acts 3:19
Rom 10:9-10
Mark 16:16, and there are many others.

I will also add, by that statement, you have just closed the door of salvation to all heathens, both OT and NT ever being born of the Spirit of God, also;

Not at all. That is why Jesus commissioned us who are in Christ to go to those heathens and preach the Gospel to them, so that they can hear, and hearing believe, and believing be saved. The Holy Spirit works in the hearts of the unsaved, through the preached Word, even before they are saved.

you have given no hope for any infants dying who had not the power to believe, since there is no such doctrine as the age of accountability,

Actually, there is. I was just reading through Isaiah a couple of days ago, and came across Isa 7:16, "For before the boy knows enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be abandoned." There is a point in a child's life where he comes to know the difference between good and evil, and chooses to do evil (hence everyone has sinned). But before this time, that child is innocent, and is not credited with the sin they commit, "for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation." (Rom 5:15).

we all were IN ADAM and suffered the same condemnation that he suffered for his disobedience ~ death and that eternal, unless God's mercy is shown to us. Also, you give no hope for the mentally impaired, etc.

For the same reason given above, I believe that the mentally impaired who NEVER reach an intellect to understand right from wrong remain pure and safe in God's hand. But those who reach an age of understanding and then are injured into mental impairment, I believe are lost with no hope of salvation (they had a chance to repent before their injury but did not take advantage of it)

Question for you~Is it not true, that mine and your best acts and most spiritual acts of faith is mixed with SIN? Of course it is, so God would never accept any works coming from us, since the law of God demands PERFECT obedience before one can enter into eternal life.

The Law of God does indeed demand perfection. And that is what we receive through the exchange offered through Christ. He has taken on our sin (2 Cor 5:21) so that we could take on His righteousness. We must strive for His perfection, but when we fall short He makes up the difference with His own perfection.

Doug, if a man fear God and can obey him, which Cornelius did both, which nature in Cornelius did this, certainly not his flesh?

Romans 7:18​

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”

The flesh can not do spiritual acts pleasing unto God, one must be born of God before one can do such spiritual acts.

Again, this is not true. Rom 2:14-15 says that the Gentiles, who do not have the Law, instinctively do the things within the Law. The Gentiles were not saved. Yet they did the things which the Law demanded, and so became a law unto themselves.

Romans 8:8​

“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

But you say otherwise, this should concern you deeply.

No, I don't say otherwise. I say that the Spirit of God works in us, even before we are saved, to bring us to salvation. But, as with king Agrippa, we have the ability to refuse the stirrings of the Spirit and refuse to obey the Gospel and be saved.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes, by Grace.

This dispensation of Grace began when Christ Jesus was crucified on the cross. All sins were forgiven by Him for those who would believe in His name. This gift was given to us freely by God's grace so that we could be saved and inherit eternal life. When Jesus returns, this grace-based period will come to an end.

s e l a h

Salvation has always been by grace through faith

I do not see any reason that it will cease after he returns.

 

[DavidTree]

Salvation has always been by grace through faith

I do not see any reason that it will cease after he returns.

Look this up in the Gospel = "when the master of the house rises up"

 

[Selah]

Salvation has always been by grace through faith

I do not see any reason that it will cease after he returns.

Ah well… you need to figure it out for yourself. Selah…