"Works Salvation"

@Doug Brents
Cornelius was a saved believer in God before Jesus' death. But the requirements for salvation changed from the OT to the NT, and so Cornelius needed to come to belief in Jesus under the NT.
I am just marking this for my first post tomorrow, I am tired and going to rest the rest of the afternoon and watch a little of "The Five" that comes on shorty~ I I want watch my man Will Cain first.

I really have been wanting to enter into some discussions with you on water baptism. I have debated more CoC folks over the years than any one else, over fifty some years and never converted the first one. But, I have met some very gracious folks among them.
 
@Doug Brents

I am just marking this for my first post tomorrow, I am tired and going to rest the rest of the afternoon and watch a little of "The Five" that comes on shorty~ I I want watch my man Will Cain first.

I really have been wanting to enter into some discussions with you on water baptism. I have debated more CoC folks over the years than any one else, over fifty some years and never converted the first one. But, I have met some very gracious folks among them.
Rest well.
 
If you believe this, then you haven't understood a thing I have written, just as you don't understand Scripture. But I am tired of trying to get you to treat as valuable the pearls of God.
dude

When someone say they do not believe in salvation of works

Then in the next sentence says our work of being water baptized. Which is a work of righteousness which I myself has done over 50 years ago

Then They are the one confused. Not me

Titus 3 Paul makes it clear. Not on the basis of our righteous deeds (water baptism is a work of righteousness) but by his mercy he saved us. A completed act

I leave you to it
 
1st he said God will baptize you. He was speaking to everyone there. Not everyone would be saved

He speaks of separating wheat (us) from chaff (them)

Wheat he will put in barn. How? Baptism in spirit

Chaff he will burn in a fire that shall never be quenched

I know if only one fire that fits this description. Hellfire

God will baptize everyone. Let’s pray we are baptized by him before judgment day
There is a big difference between the fiery trials of our faith
Verses the fiery lake of fire which is the second death .
Those who face the second death , AINT baptized , they tormented and destroyed .
Remember universalism does not exist .
Thus the time to give out HOPE and TRUTH to all , IS RIGHT NOW
for many shall wail on the day of the LORD .
If many sheep have been tormented by men , some even lit on fire in neros
lil garden . IF all that can come upon the saints who beleive .
HOW MUCH WORSE for those who rejected . The second DEATH
is called second and DEATH for a reason . THERE WILL BE NO LIFE for those who face the second death .
The time to give out TRUTH is right now . And in no way let us ever even give a glimmer of false hope
to the lost . JESUS TIME . Now to the trenches . I KNOW JESUS saves
All else , as i am sure you agree , IS VAINTY upon vainty . Let us POINT only TO CHRIST .
Just a friendly reminder to us all .
 
Psalms 87:5-6 (NKJV) 5 And of Zion it will be said, “This [one] and that [one] were born in her; And the Most High Himself shall establish her.” 6 The LORD will record, When He registers the peoples: “This [one] was born there.” Selah
Please help out the 'Lady' on here to SEE
 
Would you give me about 20 minutes as i just walked in the door from working in the 90 degree heat
March on in the trenches my friend .
Every time we have a blast of a furnace of west texas heat
I have to at least say , THANKS TO JESUS we wont have to face the lake of fire . WHICH I know
is hotter than ninety . TRENCH on my friend . The LORD is our hope and our salvation .
 
This includes all Christians.

s e l a h
No, it is who the FATHER GIVES to the Son. "Father gives" are the key words that connects them to the apostles only.

Read this in John 17.

11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
 
Thats when jesus will immerse (baptize) the lost into the lake of fire. the fire that shall never be quenched

12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but

The chaff is the lost
If that is what you believe I won't try to change you mind. You do believe don't you that when we are born again of the Spirit Jesus takes away the lawless sin attached to our nature that all sinners have?
No. that is caused by the baptism of the spirit.. Not fire..
I'll agree to the truth of that.
 
There is Holy Spirit Fire that is for the Blood Washed Saints = it is NOT hell-fire

I've never heard anyone question this before.

The Spirit came at Pentecost as flames of fire, and fire is often used in a positive sense in Scripture.

Sinless perfectionism is nuts though.
 
@Jim @DavidTree @Doug Brents @brightfame52 @Eternally-Grateful

Jim, just as I said, it can be easily proven that Cornelius was a born again child of God before he ever heard a word from Peter ~ Jim, he first heard heard the voice of Jesus Christ in essence saying, Cornelius come forth and live!

John 5:25​

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”

Jim, most Bible professors assume the new birth occurs when a person believes the gospel and with you..... are baptized. But the Bible does not support either of these assumptions.

In Acts chapter 10, Cornelius is a great example of a man who was born again BEFORE he ever heard the gospel, or even met Peter.

First, notice that before he met Peter or heard the gospel, Cornelius “feared God with all his house” (v.2). And from the Bible we know that those who fear the Lord possess God’s salvation (Ps. 85:9), enjoy God’s mercy (Ps. 103:17), and please God (Ps. 147:11). Unsaved men do not fear God (Rom 3:18; Ps 36:1).

Second, see that Cornelius’ prayers were “come up for a memorial before God” (v.4), before he heard or believed the gospel through Peter. And Proverbs 15:29 teaches us plainly that God only hears the prayers of the righteous.

Third, observe that Peter acknowledged in verses 34-35 that God had already accepted Cornelius before Peter ever met him.

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

From this brief consideration of Acts chapter 10, we conclude Cornelius was born again and in possession of eternal life before he ever heard the gospel or met Peter. Cornelius is a great Biblical example of what the Bible teaches regarding the new birth: it is based only on the will of God (John 1:13), it is necessary before a man can even see the kingdom of God (John 3:3), and it is the washing and renewing work of the Holy Spirit of God (Titus 3:5).

Lost and wicked sinners do not accomplish their own new birth. Only when a man is already born again does he have any desire, like Cornelius, to hear and obey the gospel message(John 5:24; 1st Corinthians 2:14)
Yepper
 
God has NOT left national Israel. And just as the apostles were to go to the nation of Israel first with the gospel, Romans 11 shows us that when the last Gentile that will be saved has received and believed the gospel, then as 2 Thess. 2:8-12 says, the rest of the Gentiles will receive from God a strong delusion to believe and follow after the Antichrist. Then all national Israel will be saved. The antichrist has not yet been revealed, but when he does make himself known, we know that there will be only 7 years before our Savior comes again. Revelation 12 and 13.

@Marvelloustim and @Tothalordbeallglory
For someone who gets immediate and direct answers to questions they have from God, it's amazing how closely your end-times doctrine lines up with dispensational false doctrine. Apparently you haven't asked Him for an order of events during the end times, but rather you just accepted the dispensational false teaching.
 
@DavidTree
The HOLY SPIRIT Fire that God desires to Baptize us with is from the ALTAR in Heaven - Leviticus 16:11-14

“And Aaron shall bring the bull of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house, and shall kill the bull as the sin offering which is for himself.
Then he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from the altar before the Lord, with his hands full of sweet incense beaten fine, and bring it inside the veil.
And he shall put the incense on the fire before the Lord, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the Testimony, lest he die.
He shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; and before the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times.

Leviticus 16:12-13 Fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost = Acts ch2

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all [a]with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
David, I see no connection in Leviticus 16, with what you are saying, concerning with what you called Holy Spirit fire that God desires to baptize from the altar in heaven, especially so in light of NT scriptures, which must interpret for us the OT scriptures, if not, then every man can form his own interpretation of God's word, without scriptures~which the RCC are famous for. We certainly want to avoid following her whorish ways.

"full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the Lord"
David, these were bright lively coals, not smoking and half extinct; these burning coals denoted the sufferings of Christ, which were properly punishments for the sins he bore, flowed from the wrath of God comparable to fire, were the curses of a fiery law, and equal to the sufferings of the wicked, often expressed by fire; they were many, and very painful and excruciating, though no ways inconsistent with the love of God to him as his Son, for they were endured by him as the surety of his people, and by which he expressed his flaming love and affection for them: he himself is altar, sacrifice, and priest, the altar which sanctifies the gift; and the coals as on the altar, denote the sufferings of Christ as upon him, which he was able to bear; and the taking off the coals signifies the cessation of his sufferings; and the altar, coals, and taking of them off, being before the Lord and in his sight, show that Christ, as a divine Person, is, and always was before him; that his sufferings were ever in view, being appointed and foretold by him, and when endured were grateful to him, a sacrifice of a sweet smelling savour; and that the cessation of them was in his presence, and according to his will; and Christ now is the Lamb in the midst of the throne, as though he had been slain, where, as such, he is always beheld with pleasure and acceptance by the Lord

"and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small"~
This may represent the intercession of Christ our high priest for his people; for as the prayers of the saints are set before the Lord as incense, ( Psalms 141:2 ) ; so the intercession and mediation of Christ in favour of the acceptance of their prayers is signified by "much incense", ( Revelation 8:3 ) ; and which is always acceptable to God, and may well be expressed by sweet incense: handfuls of it may denote the largeness of his intercession, being for all the elect of God, and for all things for them they stand in need of; and the infinite perfection and virtue of his person, blood, righteousness, and sacrifice, to make his intercession effectual: and being "beaten small" may signify his intercession made for particular persons, and those the meanest. (Much of this we are indebted to John Gill and men before him.)

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all [a]with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
David I would like to come back and look in-depth at these scripture, for there is no connection between Leviticus 16 and Acts 2. Totally two different subjects under consideration. You do know that our Lord was never baptized with fire in the sense in which the Pentecostals teaches; he indeed had a baptism to be baptized with, but it was the one mentioned in Leviticus 16!

Mark 10:38​

“But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?”

I am coming back, very soon.
 
David, I see no connection in Leviticus 16, with what you are saying, concerning with what you called Holy Spirit fire that God desires to baptize from the altar in heaven, especially so in light of NT scriptures, which must interpret for us the OT scriptures, if not, then every man can form his own interpretation of God's word, without scriptures~which the RCC are famous for. We certainly want to avoid following her whorish ways.

Some of the old timers used to speak of God putting coals on the altar of our hearts.

They knew a thing or two about a deeper prayer life than many modern Christians.

We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat. (Heb. 13:10 NKJ)
 
There is a big difference between the fiery trials of our faith
Verses the fiery lake of fire which is the second death .
Yes. One is a fire that comes and goes. it is quenched from time to time. usually by our reaction to it..

The other is a fire that will never be quenched.
Those who face the second death , AINT baptized , they tormented and destroyed .
Actually yes they are. God immerses them into the lake of fire.
Remember universalism does not exist .
I never said it did
Thus the time to give out HOPE and TRUTH to all , IS RIGHT NOW
for many shall wail on the day of the LORD .
If many sheep have been tormented by men , some even lit on fire in neros
lil garden . IF all that can come upon the saints who beleive .
HOW MUCH WORSE for those who rejected . The second DEATH
is called second and DEATH for a reason . THERE WILL BE NO LIFE for those who face the second death .
The time to give out TRUTH is right now . And in no way let us ever even give a glimmer of false hope
to the lost . JESUS TIME . Now to the trenches . I KNOW JESUS saves
All else , as i am sure you agree , IS VAINTY upon vainty . Let us POINT only TO CHRIST .
Just a friendly reminder to us all .
So again

lets receive the baptism of the spirit. where we are placed into the barn. separated from the chaff. who will be cast to outer darkness
 
Abraham was saved by his faith.

Romans 4:3 (NKJV) For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

s e l a h
By Grace?

does not paul say we are saved by this same faith?

Rom 4: 16 herefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations” in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
 
If that is what you believe I won't try to change you mind. You do believe don't you that when we are born again of the Spirit Jesus takes away the lawless sin attached to our nature that all sinners have?
Paul still struggled with sin. as do we all.

We have the power to overcome sin, But God did not remove our nature.. He defeated it. so it really has no power. but sadly. we can give it some power back
I'll agree to the truth of that.
 
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