Calvinists are spiritually autistic and secularly active. Interesting......
"Works Salvation"
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Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
How can anyone be spiritually autistic and secularly active at the same time?
Of course, taking for granted that they do good in that secular activity.
Calvinists have not only done great things in the economy of communities. They have been active missionaries abroad. They have bravely faced persecutions and challenges.
brightfame52
Well-known member
But justifying faith is a gift of God and therefore only by this ruling principle, this governing principle, of salvation can it rightly be said that salvation is TOTALLY by the grace of God and NOT AT ALL by the works of man, which includes the faith that is in every man by nature. Any condition a man must meet in order to be saved would require a work of man’s, which would automatically nullify, or cancel out, grace: "...if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace, But if it be of works, then is it no more grace..." (Rom. 11:6).https://www.godsonlygospel.com/faith-to-believe-what-part-2
John 2:20,26 prove that the Calvinist monergistic view of faith is a Dead Faith.
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
IOW, we are justified by BOTH faith and good works. John 2:24.
Carry on with your Dead Faith.
Johann
Well-known member
But Jesus did not trust himself to them (autos de Iēsous ouk episteuen hauton autois). “But Jesus himself kept on refusing (negative imperfect) to trust himself to them.” The double use of pisteuō here is shown by Act_8:13 where Simon Magus “believed” (episteusen) and was baptized, but was unsaved. He merely believed that he wanted what Philip had.
For that he knew all men (dia to auton ginōskein pantas). Causal use of dia and the accusative case of the articular infinitive to ginōskein (because of the knowing) with the object of the infinitive (pantas, all men) and the accusative of general reference (auton, as to himself).
Robertson
Amazing! People can "believe" and be baptized and STILL be unsaved!
J.
brightfame52
Well-known member
But justifying faith is a gift of God and therefore only by this ruling principle, this governing principle, of salvation can it rightly be said that salvation is TOTALLY by the grace of God and NOT AT ALL by the works of man, which includes the faith that is in every man by nature. Any condition a man must meet in order to be saved would require a work of man’s, which would automatically nullify, or cancel out, grace: "...if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace, But if it be of works, then is it no more grace..." (Rom. 11:6).https://www.godsonlygospel.com/faith-to-believe-what-part-2
Your Calvinist logic flies in the face of James 2 concerning good works. Between Apostle James and you, I choose Apostle James
Carry on with your Dead Faith.
For sure they have to possess a true belief in Christ to be saved. As you pointed out, It's not just by going through the motions, with wrong intentions, that you are saved.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You wedded to that works salvation friend.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Anyone who believes that one must do something to either get saved or stay saved is a debtor to do the WHOLE law Gal. 5:2-4
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
brightfame52
Well-known member
If we say we are saved/justified before God by means of our own faith, in essence we are saying we are Justified/saved by our own righteousness. Thats condemned !
civic
Well-known member
yes a dead faith plus he equates faith is a work. more doublespeak, oxymorons. a belief system full of contradictions.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith as the human act of man is a law act, so its required by the Law Matt 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
So if we are saved/justified by our own human faith,we ae Justified/saved by obeying the Law, which is against scripture
Gal 2 16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
So if we are saved/justified by our own human faith,we ae Justified/saved by obeying the Law, which is against scripture
Gal 2 16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Jay
Member
Wrong.
Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. / For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.
Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God. For anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.
brightfame52
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
ditto brother
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
A beautiful example on how true faith is not the result of human effort is given to us in the story of the man who was desperate trying to find someone to help his sick son
“Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!” (Mark 6:9)
Did that man believe? If so, what he meant by his unbelief? Why did he need Jesus to help his unbelief?
When we consider “faith” an intellectual assent to a set of doctrines after having studied the Bible, and come to think that such assent will save us, we are engaging into a merit-based salvation… and that lead us to pride and arrogance… to despise as “not saved” those who question or reject some of those doctrines.
When we consider “faith” as trust in God’s ability to change our life, then we are living under grace.
The father of the story had no reason to think that Jesus could help his child since Jesus disciples had failed. The only thing that father wanted now is to believe. When he shouted “I believe” he was saying “I want to believe”, “I believe that you can make me believe”.
“Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!” (Mark 6:9)
Did that man believe? If so, what he meant by his unbelief? Why did he need Jesus to help his unbelief?
When we consider “faith” an intellectual assent to a set of doctrines after having studied the Bible, and come to think that such assent will save us, we are engaging into a merit-based salvation… and that lead us to pride and arrogance… to despise as “not saved” those who question or reject some of those doctrines.
When we consider “faith” as trust in God’s ability to change our life, then we are living under grace.
The father of the story had no reason to think that Jesus could help his child since Jesus disciples had failed. The only thing that father wanted now is to believe. When he shouted “I believe” he was saying “I want to believe”, “I believe that you can make me believe”.
I have heard this doctrine promoted by this world's religions. It is founded on the belief that the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation "by obedience to God's Laws as HE instructed. (They call this Legalism) But when I actually read the bible for myself, I find that they didn't live by or "try" to live by or teach for doctrines the Commandments of God at all. According to the Jesus "of the bible;
Matt: 15: 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God at all)
This same Jesus said;
Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well "ye reject the commandment of God", that ye may keep your own tradition.
The same Jesus "of the Bible" also said of them, "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?"
Stephen, filled with the Spirit of God said of them:
Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Paul said of them:
Rom. 10: 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish "their own righteousness", have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Ezek., Inspired by the Spirit of Christ said of their fathers:
Ez. 20: 18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols: 19 I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them; 20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.
21 Notwithstanding the children "rebelled against me": they "walked not" in my statutes, "neither kept my judgments" to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they "polluted my sabbaths": then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.
Legalism: Def; Strict, literal, or excessive conformity to the law or to a religious or moral code.
So given the words of the Jesus "of the Bible" and other Inspired Words of God, it is clear that the popular teaching of this world's religious sects and businesses; "One of the most serious problems facing the church in Paul’s day was the problem of legalism" has no Biblical basis of support.
There were men who Yielded themselves to God though, and it is written of them.
Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
These folks would fit the definition of Legalism perfectly. What does it say about Zacharias?
Luke 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
How is it that Zacharias knew the Christ as an unborn child, even before HE was old enough to do anything, but the Pharisees who taught for doctrines the Commandments of men didn't know His even after HE walked on water? I think Peter tells us, for those who believe what is written.
Acts 5: 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, "whom God hath given" to them "that obey him".
Well that explains why the Pharisees didn't know Him but Zacharias did.
It seems maybe there wasn't enough "Legalism" in Paul's Time, and that was the problem. At least according to Scriptures.
Aeliana
Well-known member
A legalist believes that their good works and obedience to God affects their salvation. Legalism focuses on God’s laws more than relationship with God. It keeps external laws without a truly submitted heart. And legalism adds human rules to divine laws and treats them as divine.
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