Cyrus
Active member
Right, See ya but I wouldn't want to be ya.
"Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Seabass
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brightfame52
Well-known member
Some say and falsely that you have to do something in order to be forgiven of your sins, many say water baptism or some other ritual. All that is not true. Paul when preaching, preached unto some jews, the forgiveness of sins, and no water baptism was in sight Acts 13 32-39
32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
All the jews who believe, its an evidence they are Justified from all things
Later some Gentiles believed, for they had been ordained to eternal life Vs 48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
All the jews who believe, its an evidence they are Justified from all things
Later some Gentiles believed, for they had been ordained to eternal life Vs 48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Feeling is mutual my friend
Doug Brents
Well-known member
From what you insinuate here, your contention is that "belief" is just something that happens in the mind (intellectual assent), and not real faith (which is what the Greek word "pistis" that is translated here as "belief" means). Your poor understanding of Scriptural truth is showing.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Paul preached to them the forgiveness of sins, they were Justified from all things.
Cyrus
Active member
It came from you.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
So they were justified from all things because Paul preached to them? You are saying that all it takes is hearing "the forgiveness of sins" preached, and all is forgiven? Wow, what an interesting doctrine you have there. Too bad it has no relation to Biblical truth that is supposed to be discussed on this site.
Cyrus
Active member
Biblical truth sounds good to me. Thanks for the reminder as I was starting to go down a rabbit hole.
Cyrus
Active member
Okay so the topic is works salvation. I believe it's one of the things that enable us to spot and expose those spiritual movements that, regardless of their profession, do not know or have God. It's what all of the cults do. They multiply requirements for salvation and insist on some form of works salvation.
Paul taught warned us. He tells us about “false brethren” who secretly worked their way into the churches of Galatia in an effort to bring the believers there under the bondage of legalism. Galatians 2:4
[My precaution was] because of false brethren who had been secretly smuggled in [to the Christian brotherhood]; they had slipped in to spy on our liberty and the freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might again bring us into bondage [under the Law of Moses]. Galatians 2:4
Paul taught warned us. He tells us about “false brethren” who secretly worked their way into the churches of Galatia in an effort to bring the believers there under the bondage of legalism. Galatians 2:4
[My precaution was] because of false brethren who had been secretly smuggled in [to the Christian brotherhood]; they had slipped in to spy on our liberty and the freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might again bring us into bondage [under the Law of Moses]. Galatians 2:4
Ozias
Member
I like to keep things simple and to me work salvation is just a human pride thing. We humans can fall into the trap of believing that we need to help Jesus out when it comes to our salvation. That there has to be something that we do to earn it, to make us feel good about ourselves.
The fact is Christianity is the only religion that teaches salvation is a gift of God and not of works. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast”. Ephesians 2:8–9
Going in fact there's nothing we could ever do to earn our salvation. That's why Jesus had to die on the cross.
Like that old song goes "He came to pay a debt He did not owe, because we owed a debt we could not pay."
There are way too many verses that teach we are not saved by works for any Christian not to believe it
The fact is Christianity is the only religion that teaches salvation is a gift of God and not of works. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast”. Ephesians 2:8–9
Going in fact there's nothing we could ever do to earn our salvation. That's why Jesus had to die on the cross.
Like that old song goes "He came to pay a debt He did not owe, because we owed a debt we could not pay."
There are way too many verses that teach we are not saved by works for any Christian not to believe it
dwight92070
Well-known member
There's no such insinuation, He's just quoting the Bible and agreeing with it. Whenever we use the word "belief", or even quote the word in a verse, somehow WE are just talking about intellectual assent, not real faith. But whenever you use the word, NOW we're talking about real faith, not just intellectual assent. "Pistis" means faith or faithfulness. 4102 in Strong's. The New Testament is FILLED with the word and IT DOES MEAN REAL FAITH. In fact the Hebrews 11 definition of faith. the word "pistis" is used. Apparently you're the ONLY one who understand scriptural truth. You are a broken record of false teaching.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
If "belief" in Scripture means "faith" (and you and I agree on this), then we should be in agreement that man does have the obligation to perform the actions that God says lead to receiving salvation. The definition of faith in Heb 11:1 says that faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. Thus, faith is measurable, visible, demonstrable, and tangible. It is not some purely mental exercise, but is made up of what we can see, feel, etc. And no, I am not the only one who understands this Biblical truth, but I will keep on teaching this Biblical truth as long as there are those who teach Satan's lies as if they are truth.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Those for whom Christ died, had their sins against the Law of God blotted out, and so they are forgiven strictly by the Cross Col 2:13-14
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Verse 14 here is talking about the Law of Moses, not the sins referenced in verse 13. But again, you take this verse to mean that there is nothing man must do to receive this forgiveness; this is an unbiblical assumption. Because there are many passages that tell us there are things man must do to receive the forgiveness that only Jesus could provide. But you are too steeped in your false religion to accept the truth. I pray your eyes are opened to the truth before it is too late.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Paul was writing to mostly gentiles so it's the moral law
Biblelesson
Active member
Just for comprehensibility:
Paul notes the spiritual condition of the Colossian believers before Christ: They were both dead in their sins (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:5) and physically uncircumcised (Ephesians 2:11). These believers were clearly Gentiles, as they did not practice the Jewish ritual of circumcision. So, not only were they guilty of sin, as all men are (Romans 3:23), but they were not part of God's chosen people.
Despite being sinners and uncircumcised Gentiles, God took action to forgive Christian believers, and to make them alive in Him, through Christ. Paul makes these two ideas into a direct contrast: first is being dead in trespasses and uncircumcised, the second is being alive in God and forgiven (Luke 11:4; 1 John 1:9). Paul has already mentioned forgiveness of sins in Colossians 1:14 and will again refer to the theme in Colossians 3:13. Forgiveness serves as one of the most powerful aspects of being a believer in Christ. A believer receives new life for eternity, while also experiencing a new quality of life today.
Paul notes the spiritual condition of the Colossian believers before Christ: They were both dead in their sins (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:5) and physically uncircumcised (Ephesians 2:11). These believers were clearly Gentiles, as they did not practice the Jewish ritual of circumcision. So, not only were they guilty of sin, as all men are (Romans 3:23), but they were not part of God's chosen people.
Despite being sinners and uncircumcised Gentiles, God took action to forgive Christian believers, and to make them alive in Him, through Christ. Paul makes these two ideas into a direct contrast: first is being dead in trespasses and uncircumcised, the second is being alive in God and forgiven (Luke 11:4; 1 John 1:9). Paul has already mentioned forgiveness of sins in Colossians 1:14 and will again refer to the theme in Colossians 3:13. Forgiveness serves as one of the most powerful aspects of being a believer in Christ. A believer receives new life for eternity, while also experiencing a new quality of life today.
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Doug Brents
Well-known member
People today like to make all kinds of distinctions between the "moral" Law, and the "ceremonial" law, and other nonsense. But in Scripture there is no distinction. The Law is the Law, regardless of what category you want to place some particular part of it in. It is the Old Covenant (including the Law, the promises to Abraham, and everything else), all of it together as one unit, that was nailed to the cross and fulfilled in Jesus. He fulfilled, and made obsolete, all of the Old Covenant.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Man receives forgiveness of sins by faith, but it is a fact before they receive in their mind by faith. Christ death for them made it a fact!
brightfame52
Well-known member
Again Colosse was a gentile church and all men are under the moral law Rom 2.In Col 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Christ's death made it a possibility, but not a fact. An individual's sins are not forgiven until he believes the Gospel (having heard it) and he takes action to obey the Gospel in faith. If he never hears the Gospel, or does not accept it, or does not obey it, then he does not receive the forgiveness of sins offered by Jesus' death.
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