Who is the creator

[charismaticlady]

There are two aspects of the gift of tongues, private usage and public usage, or to put it another way, one in which interpretation is necessary and one where it is not.

That is the point of 1Cor 14 in my humble opinion. Of tongues is a gift whose purpose is for unbelievers, as Paul clearly states, then interpretation someone needs to interpret in order that all may benefit from the message. Thus, tongues are a means of the Spirit to demonstrate the power and authenticity of God’s message to unbelievers.

I was once told an account of a Wesleyan missionary who was in a foreign country for a conference. He did not speak the language of the host country, but was asked to pray before the meeting began.

After the meeting, a member of the host country came up to the missionary and exclaimed that that was the best use of his native language he had ever heard by a foreigner. The missionary replied that he didn’t speak in anything but English, to which the host said, ‘but our language is what we heard.”

Now some have called this the ‘gift of ears’, which of course has no scriptural foundation per se, but no matter what it’s called, the message of the missionary’s words were heard by the hosts in their own language.

So I think God can use “tongues” in many different ways for his purposes, the primary reason being to make his message heard by those for whom it is intended.


Doug

Yes, Scripture shows us those two types of speaking in tongues, which I've already explained. Mark 16:17 is TO GOD who doesn't need interpretation as He understands all languages, because He created them all. They are for our individual use in prayer and praise. Then there is the one that is a gift to certain people He chooses inside a church to deliver a message in tongues FROM GOD, that MUST be interpreted for the profit of all. Our secret prayers do not require interpretation because they may not be in of our business if they are intercession for someone else.

As for someone understanding in a language that is not being spoken, that is interpretation of tongues. THAT is what happened on the Day of Pentecost. 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born...we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.? In other words, how can each of the Jews hear all of them speaking in our own language. That is like a choir, not a cacophony of 120 different languages all spoken at once. That would be confusing and God is NOT the author of confusion.

You knowing that story should be the first to understand that tongues in themselves are not understood NATURALLY by any man. It is ONLY through the gift of interpretation of tongues that anyone understands and it is supernatural. And God uses His own gifts any way He wants to, BUT never in contradiction of His own Scripture.

In your story the person was speaking English, and someone heard their own language. In the story I told there was a group of teenagers that brought an unsaved friend from school and they all prayed for her in tongues, but she only heard English!

 

[Keiw1]

The Greek text and the translation of the text are two separate things. From which of the 5800 Greek texts is the NWT based on/translated from?


The wicked don’t care if they use it in vain!
Only ones who respect the Name fear misusing it.



I do not disagree. But you are running to a false version of God.

God fixed his translation= The new world translation.
The bible is clear--God wants his name known and used, praised, called upon=The righteous use it daily. They run to it as a strong tower--Thus its your reasoning that lacks.

 

[Keiw1]

The Greek text and the translations thereof are two separate things. (And why should I believe someone about Greek who can’t even conjugate English properly? “All Greek texts existing were done from Catholic translations.”)



The wicked don’t care how they used God’s name! Only those with respect for God’s name fear misusing it.



I agree completely! The question is which version of God are you running to? I believe you are running to, praising, and sharing the wrong version of God.


Doug

Jesus' God and Father=Jehovah--you know the one who sent Jesus=THE ONLY TRUE GOD according to Jesus( John 17:3) 0 doubt i have the correct God.

 

[Keiw1]

That same Jesus stated that he and the Father shared in very glory of God

The book of revelation shows God-SHARES glory-honor with the lamb-Rev 5:12-14)--Jesus wont accept Glory from men-John 5: 41.

 

[Keiw1]

No, rather was proven by the Grandville Sharp Rule of Greek Grammar

Then why do unbias Greek scholars put a god at John 1:1--because its correct. You quote bias Greek scholars.

 

[TibiasDad]

Jesus' God and Father=Jehovah--you know the one who sent Jesus=THE ONLY TRUE GOD according to Jesus( John 17:3) 0 doubt i have the correct God.

Would God have us believe in anything less in quality than himself? And yet belief in Jesus is the singular thing that separates one from life itself.

You seem to neglect the fact that Jesus Christ included himself in tandem with his Father as the necessary object of our belief. Jesus, by doing so, equated himself to God. Nothing less than God can be equal to God. That’s why the Teachers of the Law tried to stone him in John 8, because Jesus was “making himself equal to God!”

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Then why do unbias Greek scholars put a god at John 1:1--because its correct. You quote bias Greek scholars.

Your scholars are not unbiased. Your scholars are not even enough to take seriously. There are always rouge opinions, but that doesn’t make them credible or reliable. Greek scholars are probably a thousand to one that translate John 1:1 as God. Not because of bias, but because of grammar. The rules of grammar are not biased, they are what they are for everyone.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

The book of revelation shows God-SHARES glory-honor with the lamb-Rev 5:12-14)--Jesus wont accept Glory from men-John 5: 41.

And so I repeat, would God share his glory with anyone less than himself?

Isa 48:11For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another.

Isa 42:8“I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.

Doug

 

[charismaticlady]

We still do sin even after having been saved, correct?

The point is what type of sin? K, for the past 3,500 years God's people knew of the two types of sin that God separates into two different categories. It is only in the last 500 years that this truth has been obliterated into the doctrine of "sin is sin" leaving people unable to read God's word with understanding. Jesus came to earth from heaven for two reasons. To defeat the devil of his power over the earth and to take away our sin. But what type of sin? That is the question. And what does He do with the other type of sin?

The perversion of the 3,500 year old truth is why Martin Luther told his friend in a letter, "Sin boldly" Why? To show the power of grace. A heresy. Paul even spoke about it in Romans 6:1, and Jude in 1:4.

 

[Keiw1]

Would God have us believe in anything less in quality than himself? And yet belief in Jesus is the singular thing that separates one from life itself.

You seem to neglect the fact that Jesus Christ included himself in tandem with his Father as the necessary object of our belief. Jesus, by doing so, equated himself to God. Nothing less than God can be equal to God. That’s why the Teachers of the Law tried to stone him in John 8, because Jesus was “making himself equal to God!”

Doug

Yes belief as being the one sent forth from God= the Messiah.
The blind pharisees lied through their teeth about Jesus every step of the way.

 

[Keiw1]

Your scholars are not unbiased. Your scholars are not even enough to take seriously. There are always rouge opinions, but that doesn’t make them credible or reliable. Greek scholars are probably a thousand to one that translate John 1:1 as God. Not because of bias, but because of grammar. The rules of grammar are not biased, they are what they are for everyone.


Doug

Translations prior to the JW,s( 1879) had a god. Blind religions rejected that truth because it exposed them as false. Those translations were not used. Most were trintarians for the most part back then. Few saw through the darkness.

 

[Keiw1]

And so I repeat, would God share his glory with anyone less than himself?

Isa 48:11For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another.

Isa 42:8“I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.

Doug

Yes he does-To his only begotten son( created direct-first and last)

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes he does-To his only begotten son( created direct-first and last)

He said he would not share his glory with anyone else. That eliminates anyone who is not God!


Isa 48:11For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another.

Isa 42:8“I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.

Rev 5:11Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
14The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Him who sits on the throne (the Father) and the Lamb are “worthy” of the same praise and honor and glory at the same time by the innumerable legions of angels as well as the four living creatures and the elders.

PS This is a heavenly scene not an earthy one. So God the Father would not permit something like this were it an affront to him.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

God fixed his translation= The new world translation.
The bible is clear--God wants his name known and used, praised, called upon=The righteous use it daily. They run to it as a strong tower--Thus its your reasoning that lacks.

You can’t prove it by scripture so you rely on the Watchtower rhetoric.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Translations prior to the JW,s( 1879) had a god.

You cite one source.

Blind religions rejected that truth because it exposed them as false. Those translations were not used.

They were and are rejected for a reason, but then again, we don’t work from translations, we work from the Greek texts, so we wouldn’t use and other translations except as an after the fact comparison.

Most were trintarians for the most part back then. Few saw through the darkness.

Most are trinitarian now! We see through the darkness just fine because “the darkness cannot overcome the light.” (John 1:5)

Doug

 

[charismaticlady]

Translations prior to the JW,s( 1879) had a god.

You're lying. I didn't think JW's were allowed to lie. Does your church know this? Or did the lie begin with them to you?

You cite one source.

He lied.

In 1526 John 1:1 says in our English spelling, In the beginning was that word so that word was with God and God was that word. The same was in the beginning with God.

No "a"

 

[FreeInChrist]

Then why do unbias Greek scholars put a god at John 1:1--because its correct. You quote bias Greek scholars.

You must be aware that in John 1:1 when it says the Word was with God, that would be who you call Jehovah , that this is the one who is also called the Father, and also referred to as The God by some, and alll of the other names in the OT.

You know this right?

So when the translation refers to the Word as a god......

That makes two Gods. God the Father and a god.

That is Polytheism and why any pre NWT that had used a god corrected it to and the Word was God.

You cannot escape Polytheism with insisting on this because there are 2 gods in the mix.

If you are willing to own this truth, I will be willing to accept what the NWT says for you.

In addition Search Assist says.

Yes, the translation in the New World Translation, which states "the Word was a god," can imply polytheism by suggesting the existence of multiple true gods, as it distinguishes between "the God" (Jehovah) and "a god" (Jesus). This interpretation contrasts with traditional Christian belief that identifies Jesus as fully God, not merely a separate deity

Understanding John 1:1 in the New World Translation

Translation Differences​

The New World Translation (NWT) of the Bible, used by Jehovah's Witnesses, translates John 1:1 as:

• "and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

In contrast, most traditional translations, like the King James Version, state:

• "and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Implications of "a god"​

The phrase "the Word was a god" suggests that Jesus (the Word) is a divine being but not the Almighty God (Jehovah). This interpretation raises questions about the nature of God and the relationship between Jesus and God.

 

[TibiasDad]

He lied.

In 1526 John 1:1 says in our English spelling, In the beginning was that word so that word was with God and God was that word. The same was in the beginning with God.

No "a"

Out of curiosity, to what specific translation are you referring?


Doug

 

[charismaticlady]

Out of curiosity, to what specific translation are you referring?


Doug

Tyndale.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Tyndale.

Interesting that Tyndale also spelled word as worde and used small w not cap.... Same in vs.14

And Tyndale called the Word it.

The Beginning
(Genesis 1:1–2; Hebrews 11:1–3)

1In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men 5and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not.


The Witness of John

6There was a man sent from God whose name was Iohn. 7The same cam as a witnes to beare witnes of the lyght that all men through him myght beleve. 8He was not that lyght: but to beare witnes of the lyght.

The Word Became Flesh
(Psalm 84:1–12)

14And the worde was made flesshe and dwelt amonge vs and we sawe the glory of it as the glory of the only begotten sonne of ye father which worde was full of grace and verite.