What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?

Grace ambassador said:
Red Flag ( 🇦🇱 ) Statement # 1?:​

"Now to Him that is of Power To Stablish you according to my Gospel, and​
the preaching of Jesus Christ, According to The Revelation of The Mystery,​
Which Was Kept Secret since the world began" (Romans 16:25)​
​
1) Seems correct, since it was Never revealed "since the world began", Because it was,
until "The Revelation Of The Mystery", "...Hid In God..." (Ephesians 3:9), Right?​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

2) Was the "Hid In God rapture" revealed in 'Prophecy' In Matthew 24:39-40,
as some think?:​

"And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also​
the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one​
shall be taken, and the other left."​

Clear and Plain meaning of context: "as the flood took them away" in God's
Judgment of Destruction (Genesis 7:21-22), so is the "one [ who ] shall be taken"?

Again, Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

How then is that the same thing as:

3) "The Mystery, Hid In God rapture" Revealed to Paul in:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them​
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the​
Lord. Wherefore Comfort one another with These Words." (1 Thessalonians 4:16)​

Which hermeneutic scholar authorized "reading from one [ heretofore Unrevealed ] context"
and "inserting it into another Different context," thereby changing the meaning Of
God's Truth?

My Bible has nothing about any Destruction [ Never being with The Lord ] that Is
Comforting [ "Ever Being With The Lord!" ], yours?

Amen.
Click to expand...

You are missing something very important in Romans 16:25-27

Please read it again, very carefully and then let me know if you see it.

Peace my Brother
 
The difference between the rapture and the second coming is described in the parable of the end of the world for farmers.

The angels first gather the weeds and then incinerate them. The second gathering is of the wheat, this goes into the barn.

The rapture is for the weeds, the second coming is for the wheat.

That's the difference.
 
Frank Russell said:
The difference between the rapture and the second coming is described in the parable of the end of the world for farmers.

The angels first gather the weeds and then incinerate them. The second gathering is of the wheat, this goes into the barn.

The rapture is for the weeds, the second coming is for the wheat.

That's the difference.
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Well, i definitely agree that the angels are going to gather the tares = so this is NOT the rapture we want to be part of.

The gathering/rapture of the wheat is my choice = how about you?
 
DavidTree said:
You are missing something very important in Romans 16:25-27
Click to expand...
Romans – 16:21-27
To God be Glory
1. 16:21-24
a. Timothy did Paul’s work – 1 Cor 4:15-17, 16:10; Phil 2:19-22, 1 Tim 1:3
b. Lucius – there was one in Antioch, but Dr. Luke was with Paul in Acts 20:5
c. Jason – who turned the world upside down in Thess – Acts 17:5-10
d. Sosipater – Probably the same as Sopater the Jew of Berea – Acts 17:11, 20:4
e. Tertius was an amanuensis; Paul signed the letters 2Th3:17, Col 4:18, 1 Cor 16:21
f. Gaius who was baptized by Paul (Acts 18:8), and traveled with him – Acts 19:29
g. Erastus an official of Corinth traveled with Paul – Acts 19:22, 2 Tim 4:20
2. 16:25
a. The goal of Romans is clearly to stablish the saints with doctrine - Rom 1:1-5, 1:11
b. “my gospel” – the one given to Paul – 1 Cor 9:17, Col 1:25; Rom 2:16, 2 Tim 2:8
c. Paul’s gospel was the mystery of Christ – Eph 6:19, Col 4:3, Eph 3:1-5
d. It matters how Jesus Christ is preached, remember Rom 15:8 and Rom 15:16
e. “kept secret since the world began” – which excludes prophecy – Eph 3:9, 2 Tim 1:9
i. A God ordained purpose from before the world – Eph 1:4, 1 Cor 2:7-8
ii. Compare: spoken since the world began – Matt 25:34; Luke 1:70, 24:25-27
f. The mystery concerns a new creature, one body of Christ – Eph 3:6, Col1:18
i. Peter ministered what was prophesied about Christ – Acts 2:16, 3:18-24
g. The mystery concerns the unsearchable riches of Christ – Eph 1:3, 3:8 vs. Joh 5:39
h. Not the first time mystery appears in Romans – 1:5, 4, 5, 8:17, 11:25, 12:4-5, 14, 15
3. 16:26
a. “but now” – refers to the mystery Col 1:26…. It is followed by a comma “and”
b. Remember, we are talking about being stablished – Rom 15:4, 2 Tim 3:16
c. The scriptures of the prophets are needed – Rom 3:20-21, 3:31, 4:1, 7:1, Phil 2:5-7
d. The prophets identify Christ the cornerstone – Eph 2:20, Rom 1:1-5
e. Peter preached Christ according to prophecy - 1 Pet 1:20, 1:10-12, Rom 15:20
f. Also, the mystery was now revealed to prophets – Eph 3:5, 4:11, 1 Cor 14:37
g. “everlasting God” – The same God, same Christ from everlasting – Heb 13:8
4. 16:27
a. “now to him…. to God” – who gets glory from Israel (Matt 6:13), but also Eph 3:21
b. “be glory through Jesus Christ” – There is a purpose to do this – Eph 1:10, Phil3:11
c. Glory will be to God for ever – Rom 11:36, 1 Tim 1:17, 6:13-17


Grace and peace dear brother.
 
DavidTree said:
That is God's choice.

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace,
Click to expand...
On the foundation it is written God knows who are His.

Therefore be diligent in making your calling and election sure.

Much like Gideon, being skeptical is an essential part of faith.

If you think you are saved, ensure to test that the fruit follows such an assertion.
 
DavidTree said:
IMO - This is what i see JESUS saying to the Philadelphia church

Being kept from the "hour of trial" does not mandate a removal from the earth.

Peter failed in his 'hour of trial' and yet he was KEPT by the LORD.

“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You.
Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name.
Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

1 Corinthians 10:12-13
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
Click to expand...
Did you know that the verses you were quoting in John 17 is a prayer to the Father about His apostles. John uses key words in his writings. The key word about the disciples is the word "given" of "gave." As in Ephesians 1 we see that verses 1-12 is again about the apostles as , those who first believed. Now going back to John look at chapter 10. See the key word given again? It is they that are never going to be snatched out of God's hand, because the were "given" to Jesus by the Father. "29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

The western church doesn't always understand eastern writing styles.
 
charismaticlady said:
Did you know that the verses you were quoting in John 17 is a prayer to the Father about His apostles. John uses key words in his writings. The key word about the disciples is the word "given" of "gave." As in Ephesians 1 we see that verses 1-12 is again about the apostles as , those who first believed. Now going back to John look at chapter 10. See the key word given again? It is they that are never going to be snatched out of God's hand, because the were "given" to Jesus by the Father. "29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

The western church doesn't always understand eastern writing styles.
Click to expand...
John 17 is a prayer for His Disciples at that time AND is for all who will come to Christ.

John 17:20

“I do not pray for these alone,
but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.


24“Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”
 
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DavidTree said:
John 17 is a prayer for His Disciples at that time AND is for all who will come to Christ.
Click to expand...
All good-except-
“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word” (John 17:20).

Most Bible commentaries maintain that the Lord was talking about you and me, and all of the other members of the Body of Christ who had not yet believed on Him at that time. The problem with this view is that you and I didn’t believe on Christ through the words of the twelve apostles. We believed on Him through the words of the Apostle Paul!

Paul is the only biblical writer who presents salvation by grace through faith in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:25). If someone introduced you to Christ using the words of the twelve apostles, they had to read Paul’s gospel into their words, for he is the only biblical writer to preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as the gospel that must be believed in order to be saved (I Cor. 15:1-4).

So who were those who were saved through the word of the apostles? Well, the twelve preached their word at Pentecost, which tells us that those who believed through their word were all Jews, for they were the only people that Peter addressed on that day (Acts 2:14,22,36). So in praying for “them also which shall believe through their word,” the Lord was praying for future Jewish believers. Of course, this means that He had only Jewish believers in mind when He went on to pray for these future saints.

“That they all may be one…that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me” (John 17:21).

Here again, the commentaries all contend that the Lord was talking about us.

After all, didn’t Paul say of Christ, “He is our peace, who hath made both one” (Eph. 2:14), speaking of how Jews and Gentiles were all “baptized into one body” (I Cor. 12:13). The commentaries insist that this is what the Lord had in mind when He prayed “that they all may be one.”

But we’ve already seen that this couldn’t be what the Lord had in mind, since those who believed on Him through the word of the apostles were all Jews. So why was He praying that the Jews might be made one?

Well, if you know your Bible, you know that there came a time in Israel’s history when the ten northern tribes broke away from the two southern tribes and formed their own kingdom (I Kings 12). While God allowed this, He had no intention of letting His people be divided forever! To illustrate this, God instructed Ezekiel to take a stick and write “Israel” on it to represent the ten northern tribes, and then to take another stick and write “Judah” on it to represent the two southern tribes, then to join them together and “make them one stick” (Ezek. 37:15-19). He was told to do all this to illustrate God’s plan to take Israel and Judah and “make them one nation” (v. 22). This, then, is the oneness for which the Lord prayed in our text.

Was His prayer answered? You know it was! At Pentecost, “there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews…out of every nation under heaven” (Acts 2:5). “And all that believed…were together…continuing daily with one accord…with…singleness of heart” (Acts 2:41-46).

Of course, the Lord had a purpose in mind for praying for the reunion of Israel’s two houses. It was, as He said, “that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me”; and when the reuniting of Israel’s two houses continues in the millennial kingdom, their oneness will cause the world to believe on Christ.

Do you think this will work today? That is, when the world sees the oneness that we have in Christ, do you think maybe they might want in on it? I know for sure that it works the other way! When we bite and devour one another, the world about us finds this most UNattractive. Brethren, do you know who does the most to keep people from believing on Christ? It is not murderers, rapists, and thieves; nothing that men like that do keeps men from believing.

No, it is Christians who can’t get along with one another, and who present a poor testimony to the world in other ways, that keep men from believing on Christ. Why not determine right now that as a Christian you are going to “walk worthy of this calling…that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you” (II Thes. 1:11,12).
Pastor Ricky Kurth
 
Johann said:
All good-except-
“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word” (John 17:20).

Most Bible commentaries maintain that the Lord was talking about you and me, and all of the other members of the Body of Christ who had not yet believed on Him at that time. The problem with this view is that you and I didn’t believe on Christ through the words of the twelve apostles. We believed on Him through the words of the Apostle Paul!

Paul is the only biblical writer who presents salvation by grace through faith in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:25). If someone introduced you to Christ using the words of the twelve apostles, they had to read Paul’s gospel into their words, for he is the only biblical writer to preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as the gospel that must be believed in order to be saved (I Cor. 15:1-4).

So who were those who were saved through the word of the apostles? Well, the twelve preached their word at Pentecost, which tells us that those who believed through their word were all Jews, for they were the only people that Peter addressed on that day (Acts 2:14,22,36). So in praying for “them also which shall believe through their word,” the Lord was praying for future Jewish believers. Of course, this means that He had only Jewish believers in mind when He went on to pray for these future saints.

“That they all may be one…that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me” (John 17:21).

Here again, the commentaries all contend that the Lord was talking about us.

After all, didn’t Paul say of Christ, “He is our peace, who hath made both one” (Eph. 2:14), speaking of how Jews and Gentiles were all “baptized into one body” (I Cor. 12:13). The commentaries insist that this is what the Lord had in mind when He prayed “that they all may be one.”

But we’ve already seen that this couldn’t be what the Lord had in mind, since those who believed on Him through the word of the apostles were all Jews. So why was He praying that the Jews might be made one?

Well, if you know your Bible, you know that there came a time in Israel’s history when the ten northern tribes broke away from the two southern tribes and formed their own kingdom (I Kings 12). While God allowed this, He had no intention of letting His people be divided forever! To illustrate this, God instructed Ezekiel to take a stick and write “Israel” on it to represent the ten northern tribes, and then to take another stick and write “Judah” on it to represent the two southern tribes, then to join them together and “make them one stick” (Ezek. 37:15-19). He was told to do all this to illustrate God’s plan to take Israel and Judah and “make them one nation” (v. 22). This, then, is the oneness for which the Lord prayed in our text.

Was His prayer answered? You know it was! At Pentecost, “there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews…out of every nation under heaven” (Acts 2:5). “And all that believed…were together…continuing daily with one accord…with…singleness of heart” (Acts 2:41-46).

Of course, the Lord had a purpose in mind for praying for the reunion of Israel’s two houses. It was, as He said, “that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me”; and when the reuniting of Israel’s two houses continues in the millennial kingdom, their oneness will cause the world to believe on Christ.

Do you think this will work today? That is, when the world sees the oneness that we have in Christ, do you think maybe they might want in on it? I know for sure that it works the other way! When we bite and devour one another, the world about us finds this most UNattractive. Brethren, do you know who does the most to keep people from believing on Christ? It is not murderers, rapists, and thieves; nothing that men like that do keeps men from believing.

No, it is Christians who can’t get along with one another, and who present a poor testimony to the world in other ways, that keep men from believing on Christ. Why not determine right now that as a Christian you are going to “walk worthy of this calling…that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you” (II Thes. 1:11,12).
Pastor Ricky Kurth
Click to expand...


The LORD says(CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW): “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;"

The ABC's of GOSPEL TRUTH

A.) It does not matter from which apostle AND it never did = John 5:24
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

B.) It does not matter which apostle AND it never did = John 6:34-40
Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

C.) It does not matter who the apostle is AND it never did = John 1:10-13
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become sons of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 
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DavidTree said:
The LORD says(CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW): “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;"

The ABC's of GOSPEL TRUTH

A.) It does not matter from which apostle AND it never did = John 5:24
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

B.) It does not matter which apostle AND it never did = John 6:34-40
Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

C.) It does not matter who the apostle is AND it never did = John 1:10-13
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Click to expand...
All good-I don't want to be argumentative.
Shalom
J.
 
charismaticlady said:
Did you know that the verses you were quoting in John 17 is a prayer to the Father about His apostles. John uses key words in his writings. The key word about the disciples is the word "given" of "gave." As in Ephesians 1 we see that verses 1-12 is again about the apostles as , those who first believed. Now going back to John look at chapter 10. See the key word given again? It is they that are never going to be snatched out of God's hand, because the were "given" to Jesus by the Father. "29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

The western church doesn't always understand eastern writing styles.
Click to expand...
If the apostles were the only ones who were 'given' to JESUS by His FATHER, then you are in grave jeopardy!
 
charismaticlady said:
Did you know that the verses you were quoting in John 17 is a prayer to the Father about His apostles. John uses key words in his writings. The key word about the disciples is the word "given" of "gave." As in Ephesians 1 we see that verses 1-12 is again about the apostles as , those who first believed. Now going back to John look at chapter 10. See the key word given again? It is they that are never going to be snatched out of God's hand, because the were "given" to Jesus by the Father. "29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

The western church doesn't always understand eastern writing styles.
Click to expand...

Ephesians chapter 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.


In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, [c]both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.


In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

So you believe this is PAST TENSE, for way back then and does not apply today?
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
IMO, it's Michael. Daniel 12:

“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.

If by "arise" it means Michael will enter the battle, he's not much of an archangel, because that's when the great tribulation begins. But the word translated "arise" (or often translated "stand up") can also mean "stand still". In military terms, "stand down". That makes much more sense to me, since that's when all hades breaks loose.
Click to expand...

Are you related to 'Bob the Tomato' by any chance?
 
charismaticlady said:
Did you know that the verses you were quoting in John 17 is a prayer to the Father about His apostles. John uses key words in his writings. The key word about the disciples is the word "given" of "gave." As in Ephesians 1 we see that verses 1-12 is again about the apostles as , those who first believed. Now going back to John look at chapter 10. See the key word given again? It is they that are never going to be snatched out of God's hand, because the were "given" to Jesus by the Father. "29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

The western church doesn't always understand eastern writing styles.
Click to expand...
Take GREAT JOY in knowing this:

John 10:11-16
“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

The "other sheep" = that's you, me and all that the FATHER continues to give to Christ.

This is God's Faithfulness to ALL of His Sheep - John 10:25-30
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.”


BE CONFIDENT in the AUTHOR and FINISHER of your Faith = Hebrews 12:1-2
Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith,
who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
 
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DavidTree said:
John 17 is a prayer for His Disciples at that time AND is for all who will come to Christ.

John 17:20

“I do not pray for these alone,
but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.


24“Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”
Click to expand...
Verse 20-26 was after His prayer for the apostles, then after that, He went back to praying for the apostles from 24 down. The point is the word "gave" or "given" was not used in speaking of those who will believe in Me through their word."

DavidTree said:
My Father, who has given them to Me
Click to expand...
John 10 has the key word so is about His apostles. If you don't want advanced knowledge, put me on ignore. Are you a Calvinist?
 
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charismaticlady said:
Verse 20-26 was after His prayer for the apostles, then after that, He went back to praying for the apostles from 24 down. The point is the word "gave" or "given" was not used in speaking of those who will believe in Me through their word."


John 10 has the key word so is about His apostles. If you don't want advanced knowledge, put me on ignore. Are you a Calvinist?
Click to expand...

Advanced knowledge comes from the Holy Spirit.

Are you a jw?
 

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