The "secret" Rapture theory

[Red Baker]

The "secret" rapture theory

The teaching of the secret rapture, or private coming of Jesus Christ for his church apart from being revealed to the rest of the world, is a teaching that was invented somewhere back in and around 1830 give or take a few short years, which doctrine was never taught to the churches until around that time.

What I will say in this thread. I first taught this in a tract form back around forty five years ago, or so. Seems so long ago, yet time has gone by so fast!

I have nine points that I will present to prove that the secret rapture theory is just that...a false theory with no biblical support whatsoever. I have never preach this, I only did this in a tract form back as a young Christian. Please consider the following none points.

1) There is not one scripture that teaches this doctrine in God's word, "not one".

Does this surprise you? It should ~ one would think that a doctrine so popular would have many scriptures to support this position, but not so with this teaching. I hear many ask: what are you going to do with 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18? Many teach that "the dead in Christ shall rise first" ~meaning the dead in Christ shall rise first, and those outside of Christ shall rise later.

But a closer examination of the verse will prove that the distinction is between those who died in Christ and those that are in Christ and alive when he comes. Paul is saying that the resurrection of the former shall occur before the change of the later~this is the meaning of the text and nothing more.

Considering the passage carefully it certainly is saying that there shall nothing private or secret about this coming. Consider: (a) there will be a shout; (b) voice of the archangel; (c) and the trump of God.

With the trump of God, consider my next point on why we must reject a secret coming of Jesus Christ for his church, apart from being revealed to teh rest of the world.

2) Paul in 1st Corinthians 15:52 makes it very plain to us that the resurrection shall take place at the last trump, which in the scriptures is the seventh and final trump in Revelation.

1st Corinthians 15:52​

“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

Can there be anymore after the last one? No, last means last, The resurrection of the saints takes place at the LAST TRUMP per Paul, premillennialism camp said that Paul is wrong. The trump here is the same trumpet as in this verse:

Matthew 24:31​

“And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

His elect are the church from the four winds under heaven! Both places are speaking of the same event, and the LAST trump of God. This trumpet is far from being secret and quiet.... a "great sound" of a trumpet.

The secret rapturist teachers have a major problem here to address, since they will try to convince their followers that the trumpet here occurs seven years later than the one in 1st Corinthians 15:52, yet Paul said the the trumpet in 1st Corinthians 15:52 is the LAST TRUMP of God...who shall be believe and follow? A another biblical reason why we must reject the secret rapture theory as false and a corruption of God's word.

3) The word of God teaches that the resurrection of believers will be at the LAST DAY.

Not as the secret rapturist teaches say, some 1007 before the last day!

John 6:39​

“And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

See also ~verses 40, 44, and 54.

Again:

John 11:24​

“Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Many of our modern day preachers will accuse Martha of not having very much light/understanding, concerning the resurrection of the saints, yet we know she had much more than most of have. Martha's understanding agrees with Job's teachings:

Job 14:12​

“So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.”

Well we see that Job was not part of the secret rapturist group! Job KNEW man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” Peter taught the same.

2 Peter 3:10​

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”

One word here ~beware of adding to what God calls the last day as many do. Oliver B. Greene when commenting on John 6;, 39, 40, 44 and 5r4 said not a word about the last day, when commenting on Martha's words accuses her of having a vague understanding about the last day. He said she did not have the marvelous account of the rapture as given in (of all places) 1st Corinthians 15 and 1st Thessalonians 4. The truth is, she believed just as others in the scriptures believed~that we shall be raised at the last trump, on the last day, at a times when the heavens shall be no more!

Coming back with six more points!

 

[Red Baker]

4) The Apostles taught that the heavens have received and will retain Christ "until" the times of restitution of all things.

Acts 3:21​

“Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
Luke said ~ "the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things"... obviously this time had not yet been fulfilled. Consider:

Romans 8:18-23~"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

That will take place at the last trump, on the last day, when all that are in the grave shall come forth, per John 5:29; 1st Thessalonians 4; etc. Acts 3:21 leaves no time after Christ comes again to finished what he had started 0-33 A.D. When our Lord leaves heaven, he will do so, to finish all things that are written, and at that time we , (all of the very elect, Jews and Gentiles) will receive our glorified bodies, not until then.

5) In 1st Corinthians 15:24-26 the scriptures teach us that Christ is reigning and will reign until God puts all of Christ's enemies under his feet.

Now, according to Paul, not me, the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1st Corinthians 15:26​

“The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” Paul goes on to say in verse 54 of the same chapter that death shall be swallowed up in victory ~WHEN? At the resurrections of believers! If this is so, and it is, then how can the secret rapturist preacher preach that there shall be death after the church is raptured out of the world, and then again after the so-called literal 100o year millennium in the battle of Gog and magog? Here is another biblical reason why Christians must reject this unscriptural teaching of a secret rapture, and then a seven years of tribulation.....well, three and a half years of false peace and then 3 1/2 of all hell breaking out.

6) The parables of Matthew 13 are totally against this teaching of a secret rapture theory.

A) the parable concerning the tares and the wheat is against this teaching a parable that our Lord Jesus gave to us.

Matthew 13:30​

“Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

Is there anything in the verse hard to understand? No, very plain.

Matthew 13:39-43~"The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

B) The parable of the net is against a secret rapture theory and so should every child of God!

Matthew 13:47-50~"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth"

There so many more~why do not Christians who believe in a secret rapture teaching not compare their understand with the word of God, and come to understand that they have been deceived!

Coming back to finish the other three points.

 

[Red Baker]

@Grace ambassador @Victoria @civic @Jim @FreeInChrist @dwight92070

I welcome all input

Concluding the The "secret" rapture theory.

7) The writings of all of the apostles of our Lord Jesus all taught that the Lord's coming would be (secret? NO!) A Revelation.

1st Peter 1:13​

“Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;”

A revelation is something revealing, not that which is secret in nature. God's grace will be brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ, not before then. Please read and compare the following scriptures: 2nd Thessalonians 1:7; 1st Timothy 6:14; 2nd Timothy 4:1,8; Titus 2:13; and 1st Peter 1:2.

8) This may surprise some of our readers, but another reason why we must reject the false doctrine of a secret coming of Christ, is because our Lord warns us against believing in a secret coming of him!

Matthew 24:25-27~"Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

These scriptures tell us that the Lord's coming will be VISIBLE not secret. Another sound biblical reason why Christians must reject a secret rapture theory, it open us the door for one to be deceived.

9) The theory that Christians must look forward to their final redemption through the coming of the Lord before the great tribulation and the end of the world is contrary to all teachings of the word of God. (Revelation 13:6,7 and Daniel 7:21)

The rapturist hope of escaping the tribulation period as taught by Daniel and Christ is not spiritual but carnal, and it is dangerous as it is false, because it leaves it follower of a false hope and will leave them unprepared for that which is coming upon the saints, not natural Israel.

The church of God/Christ will be here until the last day of this world as we know it. Consider carefully:

2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3~"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

So, we ask who come first, Jesus to gather together us unto him, or the man of sin? Paul said it very plain: the man of sin will appear FIRST before saints are gathered together unto Christ at his coming!

Jesus will come after the man of sin comes and takes over the churches in this world, which they have almost done. Man of sin is just as the phrase said: man of sin...man of sin. Men who are living under the power of sin will take over the temple of God and God's children will flee unto the mountain, or out of the mist of these false churches. They will no longer be welcome therein.

How soon will Christ comes once this takes place is hidden from us~it takes place during the little season of Revelation 20, etc.

Personally I believe it started in and around 1850 at which time this world begin to be flooded with false bibles and false cults. Does anyone know which false cults started in and around 1850? Several major ones. SDA; Mormons; Jehovah Witnesses; and the Pentecostals shortly after them in 1900, and others since, so where we are now, which tells me that the end is not that far out, just how far we do not know. There are other biblical signs given by Christ that tell us the coming of Christ is at the door.
Matthew 24:36-38; Luke 17:26-30!

 

[FreeInChrist]

@Red Baker

I agree this is false. The very idea of a Secret Rapture IMO is just plain silly.

When I was first reading about this in the other thread all that came to mind is that the believers of such have to
be dogmatic Full Preterists for they are the ones who believe Jesus came... somewhat secretly in 70AD

This was my first thought before I did a quick search and found the following... BTW, there are a lot of links on this and they all suggest Preterist belief.

Did Jesus Already Return in AD 70? – Preterist Archives

preteristarchives.org

The belief that the secret rapture occurred in 70 A.D. is associated with preterism, which interprets certain biblical passages as indicating that Jesus' second coming happened during the lifetime of those who were alive at that time. However, many theologians argue that the second coming is still a future event, as indicated by passages like Matthew 24:14, which suggests the gospel must be preached to the whole world first.

The belief that the secret rapture occurred in 70 A.D. is primarily held by preterists, who interpret certain biblical passages as evidence. However, many scholars and theologians argue that these passages indicate that the second coming, including the rapture, is still a future event.

So I won't buy it unless there is definitive unmistakable scripture talking on it

 

[civic]

@Red Baker

I agree this is false. The very idea of a Secret Rapture IMO is just plain silly.

When I was first reading about this in the other thread all that came to mind is that the believers of such have to
be dogmatic Full Preterists for they are the ones who believe Jesus came... somewhat secretly in 70AD

This was my first thought before I did a quick search and found the following... BTW, there are a lot of links on this and they all suggest Preterist belief.

Did Jesus Already Return in AD 70? – Preterist Archives

preteristarchives.org

The belief that the secret rapture occurred in 70 A.D. is associated with preterism, which interprets certain biblical passages as indicating that Jesus' second coming happened during the lifetime of those who were alive at that time. However, many theologians argue that the second coming is still a future event, as indicated by passages like Matthew 24:14, which suggests the gospel must be preached to the whole world first.

The belief that the secret rapture occurred in 70 A.D. is primarily held by preterists, who interpret certain biblical passages as evidence. However, many scholars and theologians argue that these passages indicate that the second coming, including the rapture, is still a future event.

So I won't buy it unless there is definitive unmistakable scripture talking on it

yep preterism is a secret doctrine with zero evidence of a rapture, 2nd Coming or , reign of Christ in Jerusalem, millennium kingdom etc.... . they spiritulize everything in prophecy that has to do with Israel/Jews in their land after Jesus 1st Coming.

 

[Red Baker]

@FreeInChrist

The belief that the secret rapture occurred in 70 A.D. is primarily held by preterists, who interpret certain biblical passages as evidence. However, many scholars and theologians argue that these passages indicate that the second coming, including the rapture, is still a future event.

Of course there was no secret coming of Christ in 70 A.D.

Preterism is false ~ But the secret coming of Christ that I'm speaking about above is the one premellenism teaches, not preterism. This teaching is also false.

AI Overview

The "secret rapture" theory is a Christian belief that Jesus will secretly return to take all believing Christians to heaven before a seven-year tribulation period on Earth. According to this view, Christians will vanish from the earth suddenly and invisibly, while non-believers will remain to face the antichrist and a time of great hardship. This pre-tribulation rapture is often contrasted with a later, visible return of Christ with believers to establish a kingdom.

What is the concept of a secret rapture? | GotQuestions.org

What is the concept of a secret rapture? Will the rapture of the church be a secret? How could the disappearance of millions of people be a secret?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[civic]

@FreeInChrist

Of course there was no secret coming of Christ in 70 A.D.

Preterism is false ~ But the secret coming of Christ that I'm speaking about above is the one premellenism teaches, not preterism.

AI Overview

The "secret rapture" theory is a Christian belief that Jesus will secretly return to take all believing Christians to heaven before a seven-year tribulation period on Earth. According to this view, Christians will vanish from the earth suddenly and invisibly, while non-believers will remain to face the antichrist and a time of great hardship. This pre-tribulation rapture is often contrasted with a later, visible return of Christ with believers to establish a kingdom.

You don’t understand the purpose of the time known as Jacob’s troubles. Since when does Jacob mean the church and not Israel ?

Got Scripture?

 

[civic]

For the open minded here are the biblical facts regarding the time of Jacob’s trouble

The phrase the time of Jacob’s trouble comes from Jeremiah 30:7, which says, “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it” (KJV). It is our view that the time of Jacob’s trouble corresponds to the seven-year tribulation of the end times.

In the previous verses of Jeremiah 30, the Lord is speaking to Jeremiah the prophet about Judah and Israel (Jeremiah 30:3–4). In verse 3, the Lord promises that, one day in the future, He will bring both Judah and Israel back to the land He had promised their forefathers. But their return will involve many distresses: “How awful that day will be!” (Jeremiah 30:7). It will be “the time of Jacob’s trouble”—Jacob being a synecdoche for all the nation of Israel. Verse 5 describes Jacob’s trouble as a time of great fear and trembling. Verse 6 describes it in terms of the pains of childbirth, indicating a time of agony. But there is hope for the people of Israel, for the Lord promises He will save them. Even though this is “the time of Jacob’s distress” (NASB), and even though “in all history there has never been such a time of terror” (Jeremiah 30:7, NLT), God will deliver His people.

In Jeremiah 30:10–11 the Lord references the blessings that will come after the time of Jacob’s trouble: “‘I will surely save you out of a distant place, your descendants from the land of their exile. Jacob will again have peace and security, and no one will make him afraid. I am with you and will save you,’ declares the Lord.”

As part of the deliverance He provides from the time of Jacob’s trouble, the Lord says He will destroy the nations who held Judah and Israel in captivity, and He will never again allow Jacob to be completely destroyed. The Lord also describes this as a time of discipline for His people. He says of Jacob, “Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you. I will discipline you but only with justice; I will not let you go entirely unpunished.”

Jeremiah 30:7 says, “That day is great, so that none is like it.” The only time period that fits this description is the end-times tribulation. This time is unparalleled in history.

Like Jeremiah, Jesus described the tribulation as a unique time of suffering, speaking of “great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again” (Matthew 24:21). The Lord also used some of the same imagery as Jeremiah. In Matthew 24:6–8, He said the appearance of false christs, wars and rumors of wars, famines, and earthquakes are “the beginning of birth pains.”

Paul, too, described the tribulation using the simile of birth pains. First Thessalonians 5:3says, “While people are saying, ‘Peace and safety,’ destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.” This event follows the rapture and the removal of the church in 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18.

These “birth pains” are described in detail in Revelation 6—12. One purpose of the tribulation—“the time of Jacob’s trouble”—is to bring Israel back to the Lord (see Jeremiah 30:22; Hosea 6:1–2; Zechariah 12:10).

The time of Jacob’s trouble demonstrates that God keeps His promises, judges sin, and saves those who trust in Christ. In the end times, God will pour His judgment on a wicked world, and this seven-year tribulation, from Israel’s point of view, is the time of Jacob’s trouble. In this time, God purges His chosen people of the wicked and unbelieving, but “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, even among the survivors whom the Lord calls” (Joel 2:32; cf. Romans 10:13). After that time of Jacob’s trouble is a time of peace, as the Lord Himself sets up His kingdom on earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1–6; cf. Isaiah 11).got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Red Baker]

@civic @FreeInChrist @Grace ambassador @Victoria @dwight92070

You don’t understand the purpose of the time known as Jacob’s troubles. Since when does Jacob mean the church and not Israel ?

Got Scripture?

Civic, just as you have said many times over~"was a Calvinist for years"....well, I can the same concerning premellenism. I was first taught that system when I first came to Christ, by the most famous men of that day in America, I went to their school and sat under some of them, not long I admit, since I saw through theri corrupt teachings on just about everything they taught, and I still have friends among them until this very day, well let's say acquaintances, more than close friends anymore. I'm the guy who went through at least two Scofield Reference Bible in two to three short years.


That being said, I will answer your post above, very soon, maybe by his weekend ~ I'm reading a book now and I want to finish it, or at least much of it, it just came last night via Amazon~ I would suggest others reading it as well;

https://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christianity-Exploring-Church-Practices/dp/1414364555

 

[FreeInChrist]

@civic @FreeInChrist @Grace ambassador @Victoria @dwight92070

Civic, just as you have said many times over~"was a Calvinist for years"....well, I can the same concerning premellenism. I was first taught that system when I first came to Christ, by the most famous men of that day in America, I went to their school and sat under some of them, not long I admit, since I saw through theri corrupt teachings on just about everything they taught, and I still have friends among them until this very day, well let's say acquaintances, more than close friends anymore. I'm the guy who went through at least two Scofield Reference Bible in two to three short years.


That being said, I will answer your post above, very soon, maybe by his weekend ~ I'm reading a book now and I want to finish it, or at least much of it, it just came last night via Amazon~ I would suggest others reading it as well;

https://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christianity-Exploring-Church-Practices/dp/1414364555

Book might be interesting... I just wish you had read Lee W's book back when that big debate was going on.

Enjoy your book... we will still be here when you come back... unless, of course the rapture... secret or not takes place or I die.

 

[Victoria]

@Red Baker @FreeInChrist

I would recommend we start off w/ something easy. Sound good?
We could compare the following two verses:

"Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." Acts 3:21

Prophecy spoken since the world began.

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began," Romans 16:25

Mystery kept secret since the world began. Notice a difference?

"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
1 Corinthians 2:7-8

Let's ask ourselves what Paul meant in 1 Corinthians 2:7-8. Notice something could've prevented the crucifixion?
Now let's take a step back, & consider what was written in the book of Job.

"Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight." Job 15:15

It sounds like there's going to be a huge vacancy in the heavens. One third of the angels joined in on Satan's rebellion against God. The reason being caught up prior to the tribulation makes most sense is b/c God plans on establishing a New Administration in the heavens, hence why we're a spiritual body, hid w/ Christ in God.

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Revelation 12:7-9

It seems pretty obvious that the Body of Christ will be their replacement. Satan HATES this truth!

 

[Jim]

The "secret" rapture theory

The teaching of the secret rapture, or private coming of Jesus Christ for his church apart from being revealed to the rest of the world, is a teaching that was invented somewhere back in and around 1830 give or take a few short years, which doctrine was never taught to the churches until around that time.

YES!!

 

[Red Baker]

@FreeInChrist

I just wish you had read Lee W's book back when that big debate was going on.

I did read his book, yet strongly disagree with his point of Jesus being married to Mary Magdalene that was borderline on blasphemy. Make a post here and see the result of how many would believe such heresy, since at the other forum Lee owned that forum and had power to banned folks which he did one for strongly disagreeing with him~(Mark from New Zealand a very godly and gracious person) I was never was banned, for whatever reason, I do not know, maybe because I had supported the forum at one time, I do not know, but would never do so again after he made know some of his strong anti-bible teachings known.

 

[Red Baker]

@Victoria

It seems pretty obvious that the Body of Christ will be their replacement. Satan HATES this truth!

Dear sister, I'm not sure what you mean ~the body of Christ being WHO'S replacement? The angels?

Besides, "Jews and Gentiles" is the mystery hid in God becoming together ONE BODY/TEMPLE in Christ.

Ephesians 3:3-9~"How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ::

I'm leaving soon to go out of town but should be back late afternoon, and will continue with this thread later.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@FreeInChrist

I did read his book, yet strongly disagree with his point of Jesus being married to Mary Magdalene that was borderline on blasphemy. Make a post here and see the result of how many would believe such heresy, since at the other forum Lee owned that forum and had power to banned folks which he did one for strongly disagreeing with him~(Mark from New Zealand a very godly and gracious person) I was never was banned, for whatever reason, I do not know, maybe because I had supported the forum at one time, I do not know, but would never do so again after he made know some of his strong anti-bible teachings known.

You missed the entire reason for that book as it spent many of the pages in explanation of what was expected to be a Rabbi in those days... and ... oh, you must be one who does not believe he was a rabbi....... sigh

James Russell Lingerfelt, Master of Theology, Pepperdine University disagrees with you.....

Now... I am stopping this right here for this is not the thread for discussions.

 

[Victoria]

Dear sister, I'm not sure what you mean ~the body of Christ being WHO'S replacement? The angels?

The replacement of those mentioned being booted out of heaven in Revelation 12:7-9.
You also gotta give the Judgment Seat of Christ time before the boot.

In your FACE, Satan! In... your... FACE! Oops, flesh talkin' there, couldn't help it
I, I, I, me, me, me... nanny nanny poo poo!

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground,
which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
(Isaiah 14:12-15)

Besides, "Jews and Gentiles" is the mystery hid in God becoming together ONE BODY/TEMPLE in Christ.

And that there is the beauty of it all, Red The Body of Christ IS the mystery, where Jew & Greek alike are saved the same exact way during the dispensation of grace! There used to be a middle wall of partition separating Jew from Gentile prior to the revelation of the mystery given to the apostle Paul from Jesus (Ephesians 2). In times past, a Gentile had to convert to being a Jew (circumcision/proselyte) in order to be saved. Today, Jews are on the same level w/ us Gentiles, given they've rejected their Messiah. In Romans 11, Paul says blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. In the future, God will resume w/ the nation of Israel.

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Romans 11:25

Paul places the Body of Christ in the heavens, not on the earth. Satan is learning this from the Body of Christ...

"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God," Ephesians 3:9-10

I'm leaving soon to go out of town but should be back late afternoon, and will continue with this thread later.

Is this code for hiding from us?

 

[Victoria]

@civic @Red Baker @FreeInChrist

Hmm, I never knew Partial Preterists considered A.D. 70 to be some sort of "secret" rapture... just that Jesus returned spiritually to bring judgment upon Israel.

However, there IS an unprophecised resurrection


An Unashamed Workman
(2 Timothy 2:15-19)

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.
And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Now, of course believers at that time were well aware there would be a future resurrection. The persecution going on then was so bad, they honestly thought they had missed being caught up. If it was the prophesied 1st resurrection, no one would miss that! All eyes would see Him, right? 2 Timothy 2:15-19 wouldn't make any sense otherwise.