What is Baptism ?

[civic]

Christian baptism is one of two ordinances that Jesus instituted for the church. Just before His ascension, Jesus said, “Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age” (Matthew 28:19–20). These instructions specify that the church is responsible to teach Jesus’ word, make disciples, and baptize those disciples. These things are to be done everywhere (“all nations”) until “the very end of the age.” So, if for no other reason, baptism has importance because Jesus commanded it.

Baptism was practiced before the founding of the church. The Jews of ancient times would baptize proselytes to signify the converts’ “cleansed” nature. John the Baptist used baptism to prepare the way of the Lord, requiring everyone, not just Gentiles, to be baptized because everyone needs repentance. However, John’s baptism, signifying repentance, is not the same as Christian baptism, as seen in Acts 18:24–26 and 19:1–7. Christian baptism has a deeper significance.

Baptism is to be done in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit—this is what makes it “Christian” baptism. It is through this ordinance that a person is admitted into the fellowship of the church. When we are saved, we are “baptized” by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, which is the church. First Corinthians 12:13 says, “We were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Baptism by water is a “reenactment” of the baptism by the Spirit.

Christian baptism is the means by which a person makes a public profession of faith and discipleship. In the waters of baptism, a person says, wordlessly, “I confess faith in Christ; Jesus has cleansed my soul from sin, and I now have a new life of sanctification.”

Christian baptism illustrates, in dramatic style, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. At the same time, it also illustrates our death to sin and new life in Christ. As the sinner confesses the Lord Jesus, he dies to sin (Romans 6:11) and is raised to a brand-new life (Colossians 2:12). Being submerged in the water represents death to sin, and emerging from the water represents the cleansed, holy life that follows salvation. Romans 6:4 puts it this way: “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

Very simply, baptism is an outward testimony of the inward change in a believer’s life. Christian baptism is an act of obedience to the Lord aftersalvation; although baptism is closely associated with salvation, it is not a requirement to be saved. The Bible shows in many places that the order of events is 1) a person believes in the Lord Jesus and 2) he is baptized. This sequence is seen in Acts 2:41, “Those who accepted [Peter’s] message were baptized” (see also Acts 16:14–15).

A new believer in Jesus Christ should desire to be baptized as soon as possible. In Acts 8 Philip speaks “the good news about Jesus” to the Ethiopian eunuch, and, “as they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, ‘Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?’” (verses 35–36). Right away, they stopped the chariot, and Philip baptized the man.

Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Everywhere the gospel is preached and people are drawn to faith in Christ, they are to be baptized.Got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Theophilus]

I've always heard this but it's a really true? Is baptism really an outward sign of an inward conversion? That baptism itself has no saving power? It is a symbol of a salvation experience that has already taken place.

That's what the greater Christian community believes. The idea is that baptism doesn’t save us because we are saved by grace and faith and not by any works like baptism. So you can see where the controversy arises. Especially when you look at verses like this.

“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” Acts 2:38

And this one definitely shows baptism had something to do with salvation.

And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing. Acts 8:37-39

And this last one is definitely pretty hard to get around.

John the Baptist tried to talk Jesus out of being baptized. But Jesus said, “It should be done, for we must carry out all that God requires.” So John agreed to baptize him Matthew 3:15

I definitely like to hear from both sides of the fence on this one. Here's just a taste from John MacArthur

First, it is quite clear from such passages as Acts 15 and Romans 4 that no external act is necessary for salvation. Salvation is by divine grace through faith alone (Romans 3:22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 30; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9

Paul never made water baptism any part of his gospel presentations. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul gives a concise summary of the gospel message he preached. There is no mention of baptism. In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul states that "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel," thus clearly differentiating the gospel from baptism.

 

[Doug Brents]

Christian baptism is one of two ordinances that Jesus instituted for the church. Just before His ascension, Jesus said, “Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age” (Matthew 28:19–20). These instructions specify that the church is responsible to teach Jesus’ word, make disciples, and baptize those disciples. These things are to be done everywhere (“all nations”) until “the very end of the age.” So, if for no other reason, baptism has importance because Jesus commanded it.

Baptism was practiced before the founding of the church. The Jews of ancient times would baptize proselytes to signify the converts’ “cleansed” nature. John the Baptist used baptism to prepare the way of the Lord, requiring everyone, not just Gentiles, to be baptized because everyone needs repentance. However, John’s baptism, signifying repentance, is not the same as Christian baptism, as seen in Acts 18:24–26 and 19:1–7. Christian baptism has a deeper significance.

Baptism is to be done in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit—this is what makes it “Christian” baptism. It is through this ordinance that a person is admitted into the fellowship of the church.

Down to here you are correct. Baptism is a requirement of the Church, and it is through baptism that a person becomes a part of the Church, the body and bride of Christ.

When we are saved, we are “baptized” by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, which is the church. First Corinthians 12:13 says, “We were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Baptism by water is a “reenactment” of the baptism by the Spirit.

That interpretation of 1 Cor 12:13 does not fit with passages like 1 Pet 3:21. Water baptism is the point of Peter's discussion, and cannot be construed with Spirit baptism. Spirit baptism occurred a grand total of twice in all of Scripture (Pentecost and before the conversion of Cornelius), and has not occurred again.

Christian baptism is the means by which a person makes a public profession of faith and discipleship. In the waters of baptism, a person says, wordlessly, “I confess faith in Christ; Jesus has cleansed my soul from sin, and I now have a new life of sanctification.”

Faith is not something you confess; faith his something you do (James 2:26).
Sins are not cleansed from the soul before baptism (Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14, Acts 22:16).

Christian baptism illustrates, in dramatic style, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. At the same time, it also illustrates our death to sin and new life in Christ. As the sinner confesses the Lord Jesus, he dies to sin (Romans 6:11) and is raised to a brand-new life (Colossians 2:12). Being submerged in the water represents death to sin, and emerging from the water represents the cleansed, holy life that follows salvation. Romans 6:4 puts it this way: “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

We do not die to sin until we are plunged beneath the water. The old man goes into the water, and the new man emerges (notice the phrase "in order that" in Rom 6:4).

Very simply, baptism is an outward testimony of the inward change in a believer’s life.

Unfortunately, this is not found anywhere in Scripture. water baptism is the point at which the inward change occurs through the action of the Holy Spirit.

Christian baptism is an act of obedience to the Lord after salvation; although baptism is closely associated with salvation, it is not a requirement to be saved.

That also does not agree with Scripture.
1 Pet 3:21 says that we are saved by the water of baptism.
Acts 22:16 says that Paul had to arise and be baptized and wash away his sins. If he had been cleansed when he believed (three days earlier on the road), then he would not have had any sin to wash away when Ananias came to see him.
Gal 3:27 says that those who are baptized into Christ put on Christ. If you have not put on Christ, you are not in Christ and are not saved.

The Bible shows in many places that the order of events is 1) a person believes in the Lord Jesus and 2) he is baptized. This sequence is seen in Acts 2:41, “Those who accepted [Peter’s] message were baptized” (see also Acts 16:14–15).

Yes, without mental assent (belief) baptism is meaningless. But mental assent does not constitute faith. Mental assent is the same as what the demons have, yet they are not saved by it. Faith, actions taken in response to mental assent, is the conduit through which salvation is brought to us (Eph 2:8-9).

A new believer in Jesus Christ should desire to be baptized as soon as possible. In Acts 8 Philip speaks “the good news about Jesus” to the Ethiopian eunuch, and, “as they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, ‘Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?’” (verses 35–36). Right away, they stopped the chariot, and Philip baptized the man.

Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Everywhere the gospel is preached and people are drawn to faith in Christ, they are to be baptized.Got?

hope this helps !!!

Absolutely there should be haste in bringing a new believer to conversion through baptism. A person who believes yet remains unbaptized is like the foolish virgins who did not bring enough oil for their lamps. They remained outside (with the lost) while the wise virgins went in to the wedding feast (with the saved).

 

[Johann]

Down to here you are correct. Baptism is a requirement of the Church, and it is through baptism that a person becomes a part of the Church, the body and bride of Christ.

That interpretation of 1 Cor 12:13 does not fit with passages like 1 Pet 3:21. Water baptism is the point of Peter's discussion, and cannot be construed with Spirit baptism. Spirit baptism occurred a grand total of twice in all of Scripture (Pentecost and before the conversion of Cornelius), and has not occurred again.

Faith is not something you confess; faith his something you do (James 2:26).
Sins are not cleansed from the soul before baptism (Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14, Acts 22:16).

We do not die to sin until we are plunged beneath the water. The old man goes into the water, and the new man emerges (notice the phrase "in order that" in Rom 6:4).

Unfortunately, this is not found anywhere in Scripture. water baptism is the point at which the inward change occurs through the action of the Holy Spirit.

That also does not agree with Scripture.
1 Pet 3:21 says that we are saved by the water of baptism.
Acts 22:16 says that Paul had to arise and be baptized and wash away his sins. If he had been cleansed when he believed (three days earlier on the road), then he would not have had any sin to wash away when Ananias came to see him.
Gal 3:27 says that those who are baptized into Christ put on Christ. If you have not put on Christ, you are not in Christ and are not saved.

Yes, without mental assent (belief) baptism is meaningless. But mental assent does not constitute faith. Mental assent is the same as what the demons have, yet they are not saved by it. Faith, actions taken in response to mental assent, is the conduit through which salvation is brought to us (Eph 2:8-9).

Absolutely there should be haste in bringing a new believer to conversion through baptism. A person who believes yet remains unbaptized is like the foolish virgins who did not bring enough oil for their lamps. They remained outside (with the lost) while the wise virgins went in to the wedding feast (with the saved).

 

[Doug Brents]

Interesting debate, I see many problems in the host's argument.

Acts 2:38 - he claims that it is not baptism that is "for" (in order to receive) forgiveness but only repentance. Yet the conjunction "and" in Acts 2:38 joins repentance and baptism as one item, and Acts 3:19 says that repentance is "in order to receive" refreshing from the Lord (forgiveness and eternal life).

Conversion of Cornelius, Acts 10 - Here the point is made that the Holy Spirit came on the Gentiles before they were water baptized, and that this constitutes salvation. The falling of the Holy Spirit here was not salvific, but exemplary. It was showing the Jews present that the Gentiles were going to be equally partakers in the Holy Spirit, and should be accepted into the Body of Christ without prejudice. To take this as an example of salvation at Spirit Baptism without water would contradict 1 Pet 3:21 and other passages that tell us that water baptism is the point at which we are saved.
And, the Gentiles were then water baptized immediately. If Spirit baptism were salvific then there would be no need for water baptism to follow such a public and profound display as the Holy Spirit made in that place.
Also, the host's statement that the Holy Spirit falling on them constitutes salvation would contradict Acts 2:38 which says that receiving the Holy Spirit is a result of repentance and baptism. For the Holy Spirit here to be salvific, they would have to have already repented and confessed Jesus as their Lord. They had not done these things. They had barely heard the Gospel, and the Holy Spirit came on them.

Col 2:11-14 - He claims that this cannot be referring to water baptism because that would require "with hands" when Col 2:11 says "without hands". Yet it is not the baptism that is without hands, but the working of the Holy Spirit. "and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." Notice that in verse 12 we are told that the circumcision of Christ happens because we have been buried with Jesus in baptism. And it is in baptism that we are raised with Jesus, and we are raised through faith in the working of God who raised Jesus.

You cannot separate water baptism from salvation because 1 Pet 3:21 says that it is the water that now saves us.

Sorry, I got bogged down here so I jumped forward a bit to where they talked about Rom 6:1-4. There is only one baptism that depicts going down and coming back up to which both Col 2 and Rom 6 refer. They then go on to talk about Rom 6:17 which speaks of obeying the Gospel. It is when we are obedient, meaning that we take action based on the belief we have in the preached word, that we are saved. As verse 18 says, we are freed from sin through our obedience.

My last comment here on this debate is in regard to one of the host's comments about trusting in Jesus for forgiveness. One definition of faith is that faith entails trust. We must trust Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins, yet if we are not obedient, then do we really trust? Do we really have faith if we do not take action on the things to which we give mental assent? James 2:14-26 says if there is no action then there is no faith, no trust. Basically James is saying you have to put your money where your mouth is: no action, no reward.

 

[Khazar]

One of the most stirring descriptions of the church is found in Ephesians 4:4–6, where we read: “There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” The church is one body filled with one Spirit and united around one hope, worshiping one Lord and one God in one faith. And, we are told, there is one baptism.

I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to miss out on getting baptized.

 

[Khazar]

When a person is baptized and comes to faith, if he later worries about the loss of his salvation, he can recall his baptism—not because the baptism guarantees his salvation, but because it reminds him of the unfailing promise of God to preserve all those who are engrafted into Christ.

Baptism is not necessary for salvation. Just look at the example of the thief on the cross; he was not baptized, yet Jesus promised that he would be in paradise that day. Some who believe are physically hindered by medical issues from being baptized, and some people refrain because they believe it’s not necessary. I still believe they will be in heaven if they have truly trusted Christ alone for their salvation.

The debate over the place of baptism in the salvation of sinners is but one of the controversies that have followed this sacrament through the centuries. And we're definitely not going to solve it here.

 

[Doug Brents]

Baptism is not necessary for salvation. Just look at the example of the thief on the cross; he was not baptized, yet Jesus promised that he would be in paradise that day. Some who believe are physically hindered by medical issues from being baptized, and some people refrain because they believe it’s not necessary. I still believe they will be in heaven if they have truly trusted Christ alone for their salvation.

The thief on the cross was promised salvation before Jesus died. Jesus could change His "last will and testament" any way He chose to before He died.
As for those with medical issues, I have personally helped carry some of them into the water and immerse them, (paralytics, some on death's door, etc.), so this is not an issue. Nowhere are we told that the person must walk into or out of the water.

The debate over the place of baptism in the salvation of sinners is but one of the controversies that have followed this sacrament through the centuries. And we're definitely not going to solve it here.

The Bible is very clear on the position that baptism has in our salvation. But Satan has warped people's minds and caused false teaching on this subject to become very deep-seated. Satan does not fear us believing (giving mental assent) to the fact of Jesus being the Christ and Son of God. He himself knows this is true. But he does not want us to take the step that puts us "in Christ" because then he loses us. As long as all we do is give mental assent to Christ, then we belong to Satan. But when we are baptized, and therein washed in the blood of Christ, we belong to Christ (2 Cor 5:17, Rom 6:4).

 

[Grace ambassador]

when we are baptized, and therein washed in the blood of Christ, we belong to Christ (2 Cor 5:17, Rom 6:4).

Correct, when Done 'By' The Holy Spirit Of God! Amen! All The Confusion of water baptism
just brings about the following:

Water That Divides!!

Amen.

 

[Fred]

It was showing the Jews present that the Gentiles were going to be equally partakers in the Holy Spirit,

Not "going to be", but rather, they "were already."

Acts 15:7-8
(7) After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
(8) And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us.

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.

And, the Gentiles were then water baptized immediately. If Spirit baptism were salvific then there would be no need for water baptism to follow such a public and profound display as the Holy Spirit made in that place.

This would also show to the Jews that Peter was with (and all others later on) that the Gentiles should be accepted as fellow believers since they already received the Holy Spirit.

Also, the host's statement that the Holy Spirit falling on them constitutes salvation would contradict Acts 2:38 which says that receiving the Holy Spirit is a result of repentance and baptism. For the Holy Spirit here to be salvific, they would have to have already repented and confessed Jesus as their Lord. They had not done these things.

The Bible doesn't have to record every thing that took place. The fact that the Holy Spirit was "given" to them is clear proof they were saved before their water baptism.
In the Church age if one has been "given" the Holy Spirit then he/she is saved (1 John 4:13).
This took place with these Gentiles (cf. 'giving' in Acts15:8) before they were water baptized.

 

[Doug Brents]

Not "going to be", but rather, they "were already."

No, the Gentiles were not part of the Church at the point when the Spirit fell on then.

Acts 15:7-8
(7) After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
(8) And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us.

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.

What does it mean to "believe"? Is it simple mental or intellectual assent? If it were, then the demons would be saved (James 2:19). No, believe, which is from the Greek word pistis, refers to faith. Faith is an action word, and without action is worthless and empty (James 2:26). So then, it is not passive mental assent that saves, but faithful active obedience to the commands of God that saves. If you "hear the word of the Gospel" and do not obey it, then you don't believe it. But if you obey it, then you believe it (John 3:36 - "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.")(Note that believe is contrasted with obey in the same context).

This would also show to the Jews that Peter was with (and all others later on) that the Gentiles should be accepted as fellow believers since they already received the Holy Spirit.

There is a difference between the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Many in the early day of the first century received the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit, but all received the indwelling just as every single person who is in Christ today has the indwelling of the Spirit, yet few (if any) have the ability to work miracles through the Spirit today.

The Bible doesn't have to record every thing that took place. The fact that the Holy Spirit was "given" to them is clear proof they were saved before their water baptism.
In the Church age if one has been "given" the Holy Spirit then he/she is saved (1 John 4:13).
This took place with these Gentiles (cf. 'giving' in Acts15:8) before they were water baptized.

It is not accurate to equate receiving the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit with the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit. The donkey in Num 22 had a miraculous working of the Holy Spirit, but it was not saved (since it does not have an immortal soul). The indwelling of the Spirit (which is the evidence of our salvation, not miraculous wonders) is promised to us upon water baptism (Acts 2:38).

 

[Fred]

No, the Gentiles were not part of the Church at the point when the Spirit fell on then.

Totally wrong on the above.
If one has been "given" the Spirit, then he/she is saved (1 John 4:13).
And these Gentiles were "given" the Spirit before their water baptism (Acts 15:8).

What does it mean to "believe"? Is it simple mental or intellectual assent? If it were, then the demons would be saved (James 2:19). No, believe, which is from the Greek word pistis, refers to faith. Faith is an action word, and without action is worthless and empty (James 2:26). So then, it is not passive mental assent that saves, but faithful active obedience to the commands of God that saves. If you "hear the word of the Gospel" and do not obey it, then you don't believe it. But if you obey it, then you believe it (John 3:36 - "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.")(Note that believe is contrasted with obey in the same context).

The belief they had was saving belief because by it they received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 15:7-8
(7) the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
(8) And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit

There is a difference between the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Many in the early day of the first century received the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit,

Book, chapter and verse please.

The donkey in Num 22 had a miraculous working of the Holy Spirit, but it was not saved (since it does not have an immortal soul).

That took place during a different covenant - not under the covenant of the church age - so it does not apply. When the NT Church began (Acts 2:4) only Christians possessed the Holy Spirit (1 John 3:24, 4:13; cf. Romans 8:9; Jude 19).

The indwelling of the Spirit (which is the evidence of our salvation, not miraculous wonders) is promised to us upon water baptism (Acts 2:38).

These Gentiles received "the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38) before their water baptism (Acts 10:45, 48).

 

[Doug Brents]

Totally wrong on the above.
If one has been "given" the Spirit, then he/she is saved (1 John 4:13).

There are two different ways the Holy Spirit is "given". He can give miraculous gifts and He can indwell the person. Indwelling is automatic upon being baptized into Christ, but did not occur at all during the OT. The fact that a person was given miraculous gifts did not indicate that he was saved in the OT. The indwelling is an entirely NT experience (John 7:38-19). Miraculous gifts were the only "gift of the Holy Spirit" during the OT. The Holy Spirit came on a person for a specific reason for a limited amount of time. But in the NT, miraculous gifts were given primarily by the laying on of hands. The only two exceptions to this were the coming of the Holy Spirit in fire on Pentecost and to Cornelius and household.

"By this we know that we remain in Him and He in us, because He has given to us of His Spirit." - 1 John 4:13
"Remain" in Him, not enter into Him.
We enter into Christ when we are baptized in water (Gal 3:26-27).

And these Gentiles were "given" the Spirit before their water baptism (Acts 15:8).

This is clear, but it as said above, receiving the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit is not the same as being saved by the Holy Spirit.

The belief they had was saving belief because by it they received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 15:7-8
(7) the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
(8) And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit

Again, belief here is not mental assent. This is faith which requires obedient action. Cornelius was already a devout and God fearing man (based on the OT) before Peter come to him (Acts 10:2). But God sent Peter to him to preach Christ and bring him into the NT, and to receive NT salvation through belief in Jesus and received through water baptism.

Book, chapter and verse please.

The indwelling:
Acts 5:23 - The Holy Spirit indwells those who obey Him.
Gal 3:26-27 & 4:6 - We become children of God through baptism, and the Holy Spirit is a gift to the children of God.
1 Cor 6:19-20 - The Holy Spirit resides in our body which is His Temple.

Not to be confused with the gifts of the Holy Spirit:
1 Cor 12:7-11 - The Spirit gives gifts as He chooses, and according to God's plan, to accomplish what He wants. These are unique to each individual and have been since early in the OT (while the indwelling didn't begin until after Jesus was glorified (John 7:39).

That took place during a different covenant - not under the covenant of the church age - so it does not apply.

Indeed it did, but it is still there for our education, correction, etc. There have been many during the OT who had miraculous gifts of the Spirit, but that is not an indication of their salvation.

When the NT Church began (Acts 2:4) only Christians possessed the Holy Spirit (1 John 3:24, 4:13; cf. Romans 8:9; Jude 19).

Only those obedient to Christ have the indwelling. But miraculous gifts have a specific purpose. They are to prove the authenticity of a messenger and the message he carries (John 3:2). Now in the specific case of Cornelius and the Gentiles with him, the coming of the Holy Spirit on them was a sign, not to the Gentiles but to the Jews. It had no bearing on the salvation of the Gentiles, but was a demonstration to the Jews that the Gentiles were also to become part of the Church.

 

[Fred]

There are two different ways the Holy Spirit is "given".

Incorrect.

No proof for your assertion.

He can give miraculous gifts and He can indwell the person.

If one has a gift or gifts then he/she is indwelt.
Remember, these Gentiles spoke in tongues before they were water baptized. (Acts 10:47) and this NT gift is for those "in the church" (1 Corinthians 12:28).

"By this we know that we remain in Him and He in us, because He has given to us of His Spirit." - 1 John 4:13
"Remain" in Him, not enter into Him.

Abide in Him.

We enter into Christ when we are baptized in water (Gal 3:26-27).

By the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

This is clear, but it as said above, receiving the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit is not the same as being saved by the Holy Spirit.

Can't have one without the other.

The indwelling:
Acts 5:23 - The Holy Spirit indwells those who obey Him.

Which proves the Gentiles had an obedient faith in that they were "given" the Holy Spirit because God gives the Spirit to those who "obey Him" (Acts 5:32)

Only those obedient to Christ have the indwelling.

See above.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Christian baptism is the means by which a person makes a public profession of faith and discipleship.

That's my "working hypothesis" about baptism. And since I was baptised after becoming a Christian ()baptists like to get you in the tank RIGHT NOW!!!!), I've not really reconsidered it thereafter.

This or that "Religious paradigm" tends to assign totally different meanings.

I heard of a lunatic fringe "Christian sect" in the orient that believed that one had to be baptized once FOR EVERY SIN CONFESSED, and they were drowning folks in the process.

Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Everywhere the gospel is preached and people are drawn to faith in Christ, they are to be baptized.Got?

Agree completely.

 

[Grace ambassador]

op: What Is baptism?

Depends which of the 13 'baptismS' referred to in God's Inspired Word Of Truth.

my "working hypothesis" about baptism

? one of man's Many controversial views about the subject?

In the waters of baptism

Ok, now I see. I don't believe this baptism is for today - oops, I see I already participated in
post #9 So, just briefly [ since I have been "watered" Three times and re-considered ] here:

I believe This Is The ONE baptism For The Body Of Christ, Today, under Grace.

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

the water baptism, being an OT ritual for Israel, and:

Conclusion: Thus water Cannot "be carried forth into/given a different meaning" in
The Dispensation Of Grace, because then there would be Two instead of God's
ONE Baptism, Correct?

God Did Give us Correct Math, Right?

Amen.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

? one of man's Many controversial views about the subject?

YUP!!!! which one is yours??

 

[TomL]

Christian baptism is one of two ordinances that Jesus instituted for the church. Just before His ascension, Jesus said, “Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age” (Matthew 28:19–20). These instructions specify that the church is responsible to teach Jesus’ word, make disciples, and baptize those disciples. These things are to be done everywhere (“all nations”) until “the very end of the age.” So, if for no other reason, baptism has importance because Jesus commanded it.

Baptism was practiced before the founding of the church. The Jews of ancient times would baptize proselytes to signify the converts’ “cleansed” nature. John the Baptist used baptism to prepare the way of the Lord, requiring everyone, not just Gentiles, to be baptized because everyone needs repentance. However, John’s baptism, signifying repentance, is not the same as Christian baptism, as seen in Acts 18:24–26 and 19:1–7. Christian baptism has a deeper significance.

Baptism is to be done in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit—this is what makes it “Christian” baptism. It is through this ordinance that a person is admitted into the fellowship of the church. When we are saved, we are “baptized” by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, which is the church. First Corinthians 12:13 says, “We were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Baptism by water is a “reenactment” of the baptism by the Spirit.

Christian baptism is the means by which a person makes a public profession of faith and discipleship. In the waters of baptism, a person says, wordlessly, “I confess faith in Christ; Jesus has cleansed my soul from sin, and I now have a new life of sanctification.”

Christian baptism illustrates, in dramatic style, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. At the same time, it also illustrates our death to sin and new life in Christ. As the sinner confesses the Lord Jesus, he dies to sin (Romans 6:11) and is raised to a brand-new life (Colossians 2:12). Being submerged in the water represents death to sin, and emerging from the water represents the cleansed, holy life that follows salvation. Romans 6:4 puts it this way: “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

Very simply, baptism is an outward testimony of the inward change in a believer’s life. Christian baptism is an act of obedience to the Lord aftersalvation; although baptism is closely associated with salvation, it is not a requirement to be saved. The Bible shows in many places that the order of events is 1) a person believes in the Lord Jesus and 2) he is baptized. This sequence is seen in Acts 2:41, “Those who accepted [Peter’s] message were baptized” (see also Acts 16:14–15).

A new believer in Jesus Christ should desire to be baptized as soon as possible. In Acts 8 Philip speaks “the good news about Jesus” to the Ethiopian eunuch, and, “as they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, ‘Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?’” (verses 35–36). Right away, they stopped the chariot, and Philip baptized the man.

Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Everywhere the gospel is preached and people are drawn to faith in Christ, they are to be baptized.Got?

hope this helps !!!

In a larger sense, beyond the idea of the Christian ordinance - To baptize is to put one thing in conjunction with another to receive its influence. It matters not how the conjunction is brought about. Whatever method may be employed to bring about the influence is a baptism

Thus to baptize would include the idea of washing, imbuing, cleansing purifying

One may be baptized by fire

One may be baptized by repentance

One may be baptized by suffering

One may be baptized by the spirit

One may be drowned by baptizing into water

or just washed