What exactly is faith?

[praise_yeshua]

You asked me to please answer your question and then ignored what I said.


The fact that people can comply for reasons other than faith does not mean that people can't comply through faith. If someone has faith in God to guide them in how to rightly live through the Mosaic Law, then they will be an complier of it. How can David be consider to be a man after God's own heart is His law was incomplete and insufficient to teach the very heart of the lawgiver? It is not as though the way to please the Father is by refusing to comply with His instructions, so you can keep pretending that.

I've been dealing with what you said. You said I took it in context. You know you did. Correct your mistake.

David broke God's law and should have been stoned to death. He fought his own son in a war that took his own son's life and was never the same again. David was a broken man. Destitute in spirit... Losing most everything he had in this life. Even prevented from doing the one thing he desperately wanted to complete before his death.

You really are oblivious to how silly you are being. David complied till he didn't. He did just like you. Just like all of us. He fell upon the mercy of God.

The law of Moses did not prevent your sin. It still doesn't because it can't make you like the Father.

Didn't God put all of you UNDER Moses? God even offered to kill everyone of you. EVERYONE....

This law you don't keep and only pretend to comply with is a witness to your failures. You are a failure.

 

[praise_yeshua]

How many here comply with paying federal, state and local government taxes??....

Did you know that God warned Israel over their Kings?

1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.

1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Now pay attention to why....

Noticed how this applies to David...

Samuel's Warning Against Kings
1Sa 8:10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.

1Sa 8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.

1Sa 8:12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.

1Sa 8:13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.

1Sa 8:14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.

1Sa 8:15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.

1Sa 8:16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.

1Sa 8:17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.

1Sa 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.

SOUND FAMILIAR?

 

[synergy]

Is Faith "compliance"?

That is how many people treat/teach "faith". Just do what God says (what they classify as obedience) and everything will be okay. There are many issues associated with this perspective of faith.

1. We know that faith is more than compliance. Many people comply with demands of their leaders because they have few choices.

• Faith requires believe what the Master says is true. Faith also requires diligent efforts to know the Master. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.​

​

2. There is only one "sort" of faith that pleases God. Every "faith" is "tried" so as to reveal its quality.

• If anyone knows the challenges of REALLY believing God it is Peter. Notice what Peter has to say....

1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:​

• Peaceful suffering associated with faith in Christ establishes the validity of faith. Who willing suffers for what they do not believe?

1Pe 4:16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.​

• Paul agrees. The foundation stands unalterable. Settled. Permanent. What a man builds thereon will be judged by "faith/motivation".

1Co 3:11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.​

1Co 3:12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—​

1Co 3:13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.​

3. Faith requires freedom.

• There is no faith without freedom of will. All servants are allowed to go free.

Exo 21:5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:​

Exo 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.​

• There is righteousness absent faithless compliance.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
Rom 9:31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
Rom 9:32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,

Without meaningful belief in your own actions (God's ways becoming your ways).... It is impossible to please God.

Yes. Faith can be thought of as "compliance" with the word of God. In fact, faith is so intimately associated with the word of God that the response of the seed of the Parable of the Sower can be seen as our faith, our response or result of the word of God taking root or not in our hearts.

Our Faith can be viewed as taking part in the Sower's Parable as follows:

• The Word of God produces faith (Romans 10:17: "Faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ").
• In the parable, the seed’s effectiveness depends on the condition of the soil (our heart), just as faith's growth and endurance depend on a person’s openness, understanding, and perseverance.
• Some seeds spring up quickly (like shallow faith), others are choked (faith hindered by worries or wealth), while some bear fruit (strong, enduring faith).

So, while the seed is the Word of God in the Parable, faith can be seen as the response or result of that seed taking root—and viewing the seed as faith highlights the personal, transformative aspect of how God's message is received and lived out.

What about the soil in the Parable of the Sower? In the Parable of the Sower, the soil clearly represents the human heart or the inner condition of a person—specifically, their openness, receptiveness, and response to God’s Word. Each type of soil reflects a different spiritual state:

1. Path (hard soil) – A closed or resistant heart; the Word never penetrates.
2. Rocky ground – A shallow heart; receives the Word with joy but lacks depth and falls away under pressure.
3. Thorny ground – A divided heart; choked by worries, wealth, or worldly distractions.
4. Good soil – A prepared, receptive heart; understands the Word, perseveres, and bears fruit.

Who or what is responsible for the soil's condition?

• The individual bears a major role. People are responsible for how they respond—whether they seek understanding, allow distractions to rule them, or let the Word take deep root.
• Life experiences and choices (both within and outside one’s control) can harden, soften, or shape the soil.
• God’s grace can prepare and till the heart—through the Holy Spirit, conviction, or providential circumstances. Regeneration comes after when the person first believes.
• Community and environment also play a role (e.g., a spiritually nurturing or harmful environment).

In short, while the condition of the soil involves a mix of personal responsibility, spiritual influences, and external factors, the parable encourages listeners to take their response seriously: “He who has ears, let him hear.”

 

[Darby]

Well lets see, what exactly is faith? There many examples found in the bible. Here are a few I like.

Luke 17:5–6 The apostles said to the Lord, Increase our faith (that trust and confidence that spring from our belief in God). And the Lord answered, If you had faith (trust and confidence in God) even [so small] like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, Be pulled up by the roots, and be planted in the sea, and it would obey you.
Eph 2:8–9 For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God; Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]
Heb 11:1 NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

 

[TedT]

Heb 11:1 NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

So, in essence, faith is an abiding hope, abiding by commitment even though not proven.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes. Faith can be thought of as "compliance" with the word of God. In fact, faith is so intimately associated with the word of God that the response of the seed of the Parable of the Sower can be seen as our faith, our response or result of the word of God taking root or not in our hearts.

Our Faith can be viewed as taking part in the Sower's Parable as follows:

• The Word of God produces faith (Romans 10:17: "Faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ").
• In the parable, the seed’s effectiveness depends on the condition of the soil (our heart), just as faith's growth and endurance depend on a person’s openness, understanding, and perseverance.
• Some seeds spring up quickly (like shallow faith), others are choked (faith hindered by worries or wealth), while some bear fruit (strong, enduring faith).

So, while the seed is the Word of God in the Parable, faith can be seen as the response or result of that seed taking root—and viewing the seed as faith highlights the personal, transformative aspect of how God's message is received and lived out.

What about the soil in the Parable of the Sower? In the Parable of the Sower, the soil clearly represents the human heart or the inner condition of a person—specifically, their openness, receptiveness, and response to God’s Word. Each type of soil reflects a different spiritual state:

1. Path (hard soil) – A closed or resistant heart; the Word never penetrates.
2. Rocky ground – A shallow heart; receives the Word with joy but lacks depth and falls away under pressure.
3. Thorny ground – A divided heart; choked by worries, wealth, or worldly distractions.
4. Good soil – A prepared, receptive heart; understands the Word, perseveres, and bears fruit.

Who or what is responsible for the soil's condition?

• The individual bears a major role. People are responsible for how they respond—whether they seek understanding, allow distractions to rule them, or let the Word take deep root.
• Life experiences and choices (both within and outside one’s control) can harden, soften, or shape the soil.
• God’s grace can prepare and till the heart—through the Holy Spirit, conviction, or providential circumstances. Regeneration comes after when the person first believes.
• Community and environment also play a role (e.g., a spiritually nurturing or harmful environment).

In short, while the condition of the soil involves a mix of personal responsibility, spiritual influences, and external factors, the parable encourages listeners to take their response seriously: “He who has ears, let him hear.”

Well said.

I think I should have asked....

Is Faith "merely compliance"?

 

[Darby]

So, in essence, faith is an abiding hope, abiding by commitment even though not proven.

Faith is Like Gravity. When you throw a ball up into the air, do you wonder if the ball will fall back toward the ground or keep accelerating into space? That’s an absurd question, right? You may not be able to see gravity, but you trust its existence because you constantly see the effects of gravity.

Faith is similar to gravity in that you can’t see it, but the effects are undeniable.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Faith is Like Gravity. When you throw a ball up into the air, do you wonder if the ball will fall back toward the ground or keep accelerating into space? That’s an absurd question, right? You may not be able to see gravity, but you trust its existence because you constantly see the effects of gravity.

Faith is similar to gravity in that you can’t see it, but the effects are undeniable.

What about the "Trial of faith"....

1Pe 1:7 Such trials show the proven character of your faith, which is much more valuable than gold – gold that is tested by fire, even though it is passing away – and will bring praise and glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.

Faith is just ambiguous enough that there is often more than just the single conclusion you're referencing.

A mature faith must ask, "was that God or was that me??".....

We often craft our own circumstances and then praise God for things we did ourselves. I can give many examples of this but I'll share one that "popped" into my mind....

I heard a man one time brag about how he had in "faith" given money in a offering to something and soon thereafter was rewarded with an unexpected "insurance" refund/payment....

Not saying God did something or not. What I am saying is that "seeing God" in circumstances that naturally occur relative to account practices is questionable to me.....

The sincerity of faith is often missed in these types of conversations.

 

[Darby]

I think we all have a handle on the "Trial of faith" from reading about it in the bible about Abraham.

Here are some things to consider from a Faith study guide I have..


I. The Test of Abraham’s Faith
A. Abraham’s Will Was Tested
B. Abraham’s Intellect Was Tested
C. Abraham’s Emotion Was Tested

II. The Trial of Abraham’s Faith
A. The Length of the Trial
B. The Loneliness of the Trial
C. The Loftiness of the Trial
D. The Lesson of the Trial

III. The Triumph of Abraham’s Faith
A. The Heavenly Silence Is Broken
B. The Heavenly Solution Is Given
C. The Heavenly Substitute Is Provided

IV. The Testimony of Abraham’s Faith
A. Abraham Proved the Faithfulness of God
B. Abraham Proved the Faith in His Own Heart


THE TEST OF ABRAHAM’S FAITH (GENESIS 22:1–4)

Abraham’s biggest test begins in Genesis 22:1. It is worth asking at the very beginning, “Why did God test Abraham?” We know that sometimes Satan will lay a trap for us, will test us, in hopes of bringing out the very worst in us. But that’s the opposite of God’s purposes. God wants to bring out the faith in us; He wants to show us our strengths in Him. Not our own strengths, mind you, but our strength when we rely upon Him.
The test God arranged for Abraham was a test of his entire being: will, intellect, and emotion. I’ve discovered in my own life that it is not just one little part of you that gets tested with God, but every aspect of your life. Our faith is touched by every part of our life.

Abraham’s Will Was Tested

Here was the test: Abraham was to take his only son, Isaac, whom he loved, and offer him as a sacrifice to God (Genesis 22:2). He immediately set out the next morning to accomplish that which God instructed him to do. Would we have done that? Or would we have felt we needed to take time to pray about this command, or get some counsel from trusted friends? Abraham simply said, “Yes, Lord,” and left.

This is not unusual in the faith life, is it? Aren’t we often asked by God to say “Yes” even when we don’t understand the thing He is asking us to do? The response of the psalmist should be our response: “I made haste, and did not delay to keep Your commandments” (Psalm 119:60). When God communicates His will clearly to us we may as well start immediately to obey it. Abraham, the friend of God, submitted his will to the will of God.

Faith: Study Guide

 

[praise_yeshua]

I think we all have a handle on the "Trial of faith" from reading about it in the bible about Abraham.

Here are some things to consider from a Faith study guide I have..


I. The Test of Abraham’s Faith
A. Abraham’s Will Was Tested
B. Abraham’s Intellect Was Tested
C. Abraham’s Emotion Was Tested

II. The Trial of Abraham’s Faith
A. The Length of the Trial
B. The Loneliness of the Trial
C. The Loftiness of the Trial
D. The Lesson of the Trial

III. The Triumph of Abraham’s Faith
A. The Heavenly Silence Is Broken
B. The Heavenly Solution Is Given
C. The Heavenly Substitute Is Provided

IV. The Testimony of Abraham’s Faith
A. Abraham Proved the Faithfulness of God
B. Abraham Proved the Faith in His Own Heart


THE TEST OF ABRAHAM’S FAITH (GENESIS 22:1–4)

Abraham’s biggest test begins in Genesis 22:1. It is worth asking at the very beginning, “Why did God test Abraham?” We know that sometimes Satan will lay a trap for us, will test us, in hopes of bringing out the very worst in us. But that’s the opposite of God’s purposes. God wants to bring out the faith in us; He wants to show us our strengths in Him. Not our own strengths, mind you, but our strength when we rely upon Him.
The test God arranged for Abraham was a test of his entire being: will, intellect, and emotion. I’ve discovered in my own life that it is not just one little part of you that gets tested with God, but every aspect of your life. Our faith is touched by every part of our life.

Abraham’s Will Was Tested

Here was the test: Abraham was to take his only son, Isaac, whom he loved, and offer him as a sacrifice to God (Genesis 22:2). He immediately set out the next morning to accomplish that which God instructed him to do. Would we have done that? Or would we have felt we needed to take time to pray about this command, or get some counsel from trusted friends? Abraham simply said, “Yes, Lord,” and left.

This is not unusual in the faith life, is it? Aren’t we often asked by God to say “Yes” even when we don’t understand the thing He is asking us to do? The response of the psalmist should be our response: “I made haste, and did not delay to keep Your commandments” (Psalm 119:60). When God communicates His will clearly to us we may as well start immediately to obey it. Abraham, the friend of God, submitted his will to the will of God.

Faith: Study Guide

I disagree completely. I don't believe that everyone must face the same choice that Abraham faced. Which is a failing in the average Christian's theology. You're relying upon a "Faith Study Guide" for your answer. You shouldn't.

One of the most difficult aspects of serving God in this life is understanding where you end and God begins. We must discern the "voice of God".

The average the person seems to want to read a book for such answers instead of learning to discern God's voice in their own lives.

 

[TedT]

You may not be able to see gravity, but you trust its existence because you constantly see the effects of gravity.

Iow, yoiu believe i grqavity be caus eyoui ssee it proven in your life.

Heb 11:1 calls faith an unproven hope.
I have put my faith in YHWH as my creator GOD by a faith hope, not by any proof.

I have put my faith in Christ as my SAVIOUR FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF MY SELF CHOSEN SINFULNESS, by a faith hope, not by any proof.

Remember th admonition in
Rom 8:24
Berean Standard Bible
For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all.

hope that is seen / PROVEN is no hope / FAITH at all

 

[Overjoyed]

Iow, yoiu believe i grqavity be caus eyoui ssee it proven in your life.

Heb 11:1 calls faith an unproven hope.
I have put my faith in YHWH as my creator GOD by a faith hope, not by any proof.

I have put my faith in Christ as my SAVIOUR FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF MY SELF CHOSEN SINFULNESS, by a faith hope, not by any proof.

Remember th admonition in
Rom 8:24
Berean Standard Bible
For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all.

hope that is seen / PROVEN is no hope / FAITH at all

WE WALK BY FAITH, NOT BY SIGHT, and some of us don’t like it that way.

Some of us are always wanting a bit more “sight” than God intends for us in this life, trying to get a bit of heaven here and now for which we are not yet ready.

Behind the spectacular moments we do have in our lives there usually lie weeks, months, years of patient, undramatic waiting on God, reading the Bible, learning to pray, worshiping with fellow Christians, finding out how to live for God in the little things of life.

Thats the faith life.

 

[synergy]

Well said.

I think I should have asked....

Is Faith "merely compliance"?

Before I venture an opinion, I'd like to know what you mean by "merely". You mean no thoughts? No exercise of mind/logic? No guidance from our emotions? Is that what you mean?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Before I venture an opinion, I'd like to know what you mean by "merely". You mean no thoughts? No exercise of mind/logic? No guidance from our emotions? Is that what you mean?

To me, the very word "compliance" itself is indicative of disagreement. One might also appeal to "obey" in the same context.

The very use of such words themselves indicate acting against one's own will. To accept the will of another. Which is fine in many circumstances.

However, I don't believe there is a Scriptural case to be made that God is pleased entirely with "obey". I believe the goal of God's work in humanity is more than just mere compliance or demands for "obedience".

Saying this from a different perspective, it is not like The Father or the Son demands compliance or "obedience" from the Spirit of God. I say this because it is relative to relationship. The willing (maturity) are in need of no such commands. As such, there is no law.

Which.... going much deeper into the conversation.....

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Obedience must be learned in us. It is the product of living in a body (flesh) that is often powerless to obey us completely.

It is something I've realized through my life. The "why" of compliance/obedience is important to me.

 

[Kevin]

I think we all have a handle on the "Trial of faith" from reading about in the bible about Abraham.

Here are some things to consider from a Faith study guide I have..


I. The Test of Abraham’s Faith
A. Abraham’s Will Was Tested
B. Abraham’s Intellect Was Tested
C. Abraham’s Emotion Was Tested

II. The Trial of Abraham’s Faith
A. The Length of the Trial
B. The Loneliness of the Trial
C. The Loftiness of the Trial
D. The Lesson of the Trial

III. The Triumph of Abraham’s Faith
A. The Heavenly Silence Is Broken
B. The Heavenly Solution Is Given
C. The Heavenly Substitute Is Provided

IV. The Testimony of Abraham’s Faith
A. Abraham Proved the Faithfulness of God
B. Abraham Proved the Faith in His Own Heart


THE TEST OF ABRAHAM’S FAITH (GENESIS 22:1–4)

Abraham’s biggest test begins in Genesis 22:1. It is worth asking at the very beginning, “Why did God test Abraham?” We know that sometimes Satan will lay a trap for us, will test us, in hopes of bringing out the very worst in us. But that’s the opposite of God’s purposes. God wants to bring out the faith in us; He wants to show us our strengths in Him. Not our own strengths, mind you, but our strength when we rely upon Him.
The test God arranged for Abraham was a test of his entire being: will, intellect, and emotion. I’ve discovered in my own life that it is not just one little part of you that gets tested with God, but every aspect of your life. Our faith is touched by every part of our life.

Abraham’s Will Was Tested

Here was the test: Abraham was to take his only son, Isaac, whom he loved, and offer him as a sacrifice to God (Genesis 22:2). He immediately set out the next morning to accomplish that which God instructed him to do. Would we have done that? Or would we have felt we needed to take time to pray about this command, or get some counsel from trusted friends? Abraham simply said, “Yes, Lord,” and left.

This is not unusual in the faith life, is it? Aren’t we often asked by God to say “Yes” even when we don’t understand the thing He is asking us to do? The response of the psalmist should be our response: “I made haste, and did not delay to keep Your commandments” (Psalm 119:60). When God communicates His will clearly to us we may as well start immediately to obey it. Abraham, the friend of God, submitted his will to the will of God.

Faith: Study Guide

I see that you started of with learning more about faith by reading about the faith of Abraham in the Bible. That sounds like a good idea to me. Study guides just points you in the right direction.

I'm total into "word books" as in books about the bible. I think it's a good idea to research who is the author of any books we read.