What Does “Another Gospel” Mean?

[Red Baker]

Calvinists although badly mistaken, still trust in Christ's suffering to atone for their sins.

This is not about Calvinism or Armenianism.

What you should be doing is prove how badly folks are deceived who believe man does not have an active part in his salvation from sin and condemnation. Either Jesus, is the surety of God's elect and by himself secured eternal life for every single elect child of God given to him by his Father to redeem from their sins and the second death, or God only made a provision and left it up to man to either receive or reject it, but did not totally secured anything for anyone. Which one do you believe in and teach? This is what each one of us should be asking ourselves.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Well, I agree.

Calvinists although badly mistaken, still trust in Christ's suffering to atone for their sins.

Thank you very much, Dizerner. It is a reassuring answer and I am so glad every time we can make the distinction between mistake and sin, and between retracting and repenting,
What about you, @Red Baker ?
Do you think that your brother @Dizerner is accursed by promoting another gospel, or just mistaken?

 

[civic]

What saith the scriptures below on the gospel of Grace as the means of salvation ?

Notice the biblical order from Scripture when the new birth occurs. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ- the gospel


1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

above one become born again after hearing the word of God

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

the same is said by James the new birth was through the hearing of the word of truth


John 1:12-13
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believe in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

notice John says its by those who have received Him, believed in His name that they were born again, children of God, saved.

And Paul in Romans 10 gives the same order in 8-14. It comes after one hears and believes the gospel that they are saved, born of the Spirit.

John 3 the context, illustrations, text from the OT that he would be familiar with which Jesus points to for Nicodemus.

“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” ( notice belief precedes life )

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ( notice once again belief comes before life)17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Faith/Belief precedes life. John opens his gospel with belief preceding life ( John 1:12-13 and ends the gospel with the same John 20:31 ) Jesus teaches the same in John 3.

Conclusion: Ezekiel 18 declares : “a NEW SPIRIT I WILL (future) put WITHIN them…” These predictions mean that even Ezekiel was not regenerated, nor was any man prior to Ezekiel. And Ezekiel lived near the end of the OT time period. Scripture talks about 2 kinds of life. Physical and Spiritual. What other “kind of life” does the Bible talk about other than the life we are given in the flesh when we are born of the flesh, and eternal life which we are given when we are born of the Spirit? There is no other “kind of life” taught about in the Bible. When a man is born of the eternal Spirit, by the eternal Word of God, he is given eternal life. A man is regenerated when He is made alive with Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:5). Can a man be “made alive with Jesus Christ” apart from having Jesus Christ dwelling in him? Also, Paul explicitly states, “You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit IF THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELL IN YOU. And if any man HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST HE IS NONE OF HIS.” (Rom. 8:9). We are born again THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD (1Peter 1:3). Can a man be born again through the resurrection of Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ actually rose again from the dead? No so Jesus in John 3 was not talking about spiritual life in the OT but the promise of the Spirit that would come at Pentecost when His spirit would be poured out upon all who believe in Him and become born again children of God from the preaching of the gospel and receiving Him as Lord.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Red Baker]

What about you, @Red Baker ?
Do you think that your brother @Dizerner is accursed by promoting another gospel, or just mistaken?

Let me answer you in this manner, since I personally do not even know Dizerner. I will answer you the in the same manner that Paul spoke of even Timothy.

2nd Timothy 1:5​

“When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.”

Even Paul, did not say that he knew that the faith which he saw in Lois and Timothy's mother Eunice, was also in Timothy without a doubt, he used the words "I am persuaded"...that's best we can do, about many folks we know personally. I have great concern concerning men who with a proud and bold spirit reject the gospel of free grace, and preach a system based upon works, and make very little of Christ securing eternal life for God's elect. I'm very careful not to bid them God's speed, and I should be, if I truly believe what I teach and stand for. I labor not to judge any man's heart, for that I cannot see, but can judge what comes from their lips.

 

[Dizerner]

That was my very point~

So now, the sentence that you mocked me for, you not only suddenly understand but it's your very point.

Amazing how that works—mocking me one moment, then magically understanding when you make a tiny bit of effort.

I label that: a dishonest interlocutor. You need to check your heart, because you are self-deceived.

If you stop and ponder what I have written

I do not continue to engage with dishonest interlocutors.

Good day, sir.

 

[Administrator]

Thank you very much, Dizerner. It is a reassuring answer and I am so glad every time we can make the distinction between mistake and sin, and between retracting and repenting,
What about you, @Red Baker ?
Do you think that your brother @Dizerner is accursed by promoting another gospel, or just mistaken?

Please try not to discuss other Members.

 

[Red Baker]

What saith the scriptures below on the gospel of Grace as the means of salvation ?

Notice the biblical order from Scripture when the new birth occurs. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ- the gospel

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

above one become born again after hearing the word of God

Not sure I can cover all this in one post, but I'll try to do.

civic ~ you made some very serious errors in this post, which to me show a lack of understanding, not so much a lack respect and love for the scriptures ~ your fear of God is well noted throughout your many posts which I have read. Your started with:

1st Peter 1:23​

“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”

This is my understanding of 1st Peter 1:23: I know the sense of this scripture cannot mean that we by nature, were born again by the word of as being the means thereof. This would go against so many other scriptures that reveals to us that we were not born of the will flesh, meaning our own will; not of the will of man, meaning another man played no part in our new birth; but we were born again by God 's Spirit alone.

The true sense and only sense that we should understand 1st Peter 1:23 is in this sense: We were born again according to the testimony/witness of the scriptures, which scriptures clearly reveals that the new birth is by God's Spirit being the only active person working when this birth takes place. Consider: the scriptures are God's testimony to us concerning TRUTH, all TRUTHS. They are God's witness of the truth.

1st Corinthians 2:1​

“And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.”

1 John 5:6-10​

“This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.”

God's word is his witness to us concerning all truth, one of them is how we were born again, which is seen throughout the word of God ~ and this is the true sense in which Peter meant for his words to be understood. We are born again by the word of God, by its testimony and witness, not what men may say apart from God's true testimony! Selah.

civic, the manner in which you and many others btw, understand 1st Peter 1;23 goes against the word of God, in other words, goes against God's testimony. You need to rethink your position in light of all of the word of God.

I'm coming back later, since I have other obligations at the present calling for me. Later....

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Once more ~ this thread is about another gospel, take scriptures you believe supports your gospel and prove it with the word of God ~ it is not that complicated. Leave Calvinism out of this discussion. It is the scriptures that puts regeneration before man's ability to hear, see, and understand truth. Jesus Christ taught this very truth.

This is not true

Scripture would not claim this.

we are dead due to the wage of sin, which means as long as the wage of sin is applied. we are dead.

The removal or the forgiveness of sin is called justification.

which means justification MUST precede regeneration.

John 3:3​

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, "Except" a man be born again, he "cannot see" the kingdom of God.”

This is the teaching of th3e word of God, period.

But you can not stop here. When nicodemus asked us HOW one is born again.

Jesus makes it clear. Just as moses lifted the serpent. he must be lifted up so that all who believe will never perish, but have live (regeneration) this life being eternal

This thread is not about whether or not regeneration is before faith a doctrine of Calvinism, and thereby one must attack Calvinism. Yes, many folks who are known as Calvinist teach regeneration proceeds faith, but, the question at hand is this: what is another gospel and can you prove your position? Pro, or con.

We affirm without apologies, that the true grace of God secured eternal life for God's elect through the faith and obedience of one person~JESUS CHRIST, the Son of the Living God. We believe that the new birth is according to such scriptures as:

John 1:13​

“Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

The false gospel, or another gospel, teaches man's by his own free will chose Jesus Christ, and thereby are born again. That's another gospel, pure and simple and falls under the curse of God.

Take the scriptures I used to prove what I said, was used in my own special way ~ you cannot, but I do desire that you try to do so.

You sound like Joe Biden when he debated Trump, I have no glue what you are attempting to say, and pretty neither do you.

Why do you not use scriptures to prove what you say you believe?

This is kind of boastful here..

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Please try not to discuss other Members.

My apologies.
I should have written "Arminian" and not any specific name.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Well, it has become clear to me that neither Arminians nor Calvinist could accuse each other of conveying "another gospel" that would render their promoters "accursed". That's a big step towards mutual understanding.

Whether regeneration precedes faith or faith precedes regeneration has no practical implications on the life of the believer.
In both cases, the believer is in love with God, and submits his life to Him.

The exact mechanism operating in our brains on how faith is produced is unknown and most probably irrelevant, as can be seen in the example of the man who came to Jesus to have his boy healed from epileptic seizures (Mark 9:14-29)
I personally love this story.

That man had lost faith in Jesus' disciples (and their "method", so to speak) as they had been unable to heal the boy. His last resource was coming to Jesus, and the man himself didn't know if he was doing it because he believed Jesus would do something different, or because it was just an act of despair. The state of the man is reflected in the words he used to ask Jesus to do something: "But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.”​

​

When questioned by Jesus about his faith, the poor man answered with tears:​

​

“Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”​

​

So, what was the condition of that man: faith or unbelief?​

After having been an atheist for about 20 years, I remember this story as resonating strongly with me.
My faith was so tiny, so weak, that I could barely say I had one. Rather, what I had was a desire to believe, just like the man of the story.
When sinking in the middle of the Lake of Galilee, or trapped in the belly of a fish in the middle of the ocean, the only thing a sinner can do is to cry out for help, even in his unbelief!

 

[Red Baker]

Well, it has become clear to me that neither Arminians nor Calvinist could accuse each other of conveying "another gospel" that would render their promoters "accursed".

Greetings Pancho,

Again this is not about the two schools of thoughts, but the thread is addressing "another" gospel, what it is, and what is the true gospel of Jesus Christ. This should be imperative to our faith that we teach, follow, and trust in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and reject and expose another gospel that robs Christ of his glory, one that seeks to lift man and minimize the truth of the holy scriptures given to us from God.

To me, it is clear that very few men and women seek to defend the gospel of Jesus Christ, to the degree that Paul taught us by his bold spirit which we read about from Galatians 1:1-5:4. We can only claim to be true believer by our love for the scriptures by defending them to the same degree that the apostles did and many did from Augustine, forward to the reformation period. Where is that same love and zeal? It is almost gone from the earth.

That's a big step towards mutual understanding.

There will never be a mutual understanding between another gospel, based upon the work of man, and the true grace of God, where Christ alone secured our gift of eternal life acting as our surety. Impossible.

The exact mechanism operating in our brains on how faith is produced is unknown and most probably irrelevant

? What does this have to do with having the truth of the gospel of Christ, and those who peddle another gospel? I could say more, but will pass.

After having been an atheist for about 20 years, I remember this story as resonating strongly with me.
My faith was so tiny, so weak, that I could barely say I had one. Rather, what I had was a desire to believe, just like the man of the story.
When sinking in the middle of the Lake of Galilee, or trapped in the belly of a fish in the middle of the ocean, the only thing a sinner can do is to cry out for help, even in his unbelief!

I refuse to question how God choses to bring his children to the faith, for that is irrelevant to the subject under consideration. Those folks in this world who have faith, we know that it is the results of God first creating a new man within them so that they could see, hear, and believe, even though their faith may at first be almost no faith.

Matthew 12:20​

“A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.”

It is the nature of men to pass judgement on those with little so-call life in their profession, yet Christ never rejected such people, and neither should we. But, we must defend the truth of the gospel of Christ, even against men we may think are of God, like Paul did to Peter.

 

[Red Baker]

This is not true

Scripture would not claim this.

we are dead due to the wage of sin, which means as long as the wage of sin is applied. we are dead.

The removal or the forgiveness of sin is called justification.

which means justification MUST precede regeneration.



But you can not stop here. When nicodemus asked us HOW one is born again.

Jesus makes it clear. Just as moses lifted the serpent. he must be lifted up so that all who believe will never perish, but have live (regeneration) this life being eternal

This is kind of boastful here..

I may address this tomorrow, the day is far spent for me since I have other obligations.

To be honest, for now, you seem to very very confused.

 

[mikesw]

I have found the other gospel of Galatians 1 was the agitators saying that Paul had a law-accommodating gospel that he refused to share. Paul was not talking about real missionaries or evangelists. He did not even encounter the Pharisee believers addressed in Acts 15. But even they seemed okay with the resolution that Peter and James shared.
Due to this limitation of Galatians 1, we do not have a generalized rejection or assessment of what Christians were preaching. Nor does Paul share the pros and cons of those Jews in Acts 21:17ff.
My observation does not have to alter the direction of the discussion, but I think it is helpful to see what Paul meant.

 

[Dizerner]

Paul clearly expected us both to know what the Gospel was, and what kind of thing did not match it.

 

[Red Baker]

I have found the other gospel of Galatians 1 was the agitators saying that Paul had a law-accommodating gospel that he refused to share.

Greetings Mike,

The rest of Galatians does not support your assumption. The subject matter of this epistle was to removed believers in Jesus Christ away from the doctrine of free justification by grace alone without the works of the law, meaning, any work man has an active part in in order to be accepted before God and for that person to inherit eternal life ~ this is basically the summary of what constitutes another gospel, which truly is not another, since there is one true gospel sent down from heaven recorded for us in the word of God, that believers are to trust in, preach, and defend with God's working through them to do so.

True believers cannot be removed from the everlasting and unchangeable love of God to them in Christ, of which their calling and faith is a fruit, effect, and evidence; nor from their covenant interest in him, which is immovable and inviolable; nor from a state of justification, in which they openly are, who in the effectual calling have passed from death to life, and so shall never enter into condemnation; nor from the family and household of God, in which they are; no, nor from the grace of calling with which they are called by God, and which has eternal salvation inseparably connected with it; but this must be understood doctrinally of their removal from the Gospel of Christ, though not of a total and final one. It is observed by some men of old, that the word used is in the present tense, and shows that they were not gone off from the Gospel, but were upon going, so that the apostle had some hopes, yea, confidence of their being restored, Galatians 5:10. And besides, though such as are truly called by grace cannot be finally and totally deceived by false prophets and false teachers, yet they may be greatly unhinged by them, and may fall from some degree of steadfastness in the doctrine of faith, which was the case of these Galatians: but what increased the apostle's surprise, and aggravated their sin and weakness, was, that they were "so soon" removed from the simplicity of the Gospel; he having been with them but a few years before, and preached the Gospel to them, which the means of their conversion.

He did not even encounter the Pharisee believers addressed in Acts 15.

What he did encountered were children who were part of the generation of vipers, same father, different children, but the same generation of vipers, who had never been generated, and never would, Paul prayed that they would be cut off.

Galatians 5:12​

“I would they were even cut off which trouble you.”

But even they seemed okay with the resolution that Peter and James shared.

They had no choice in this matter once the apostles agreed among themselves, they were not even allow to speak at the first council of the church to decide the truth of the scriptures...... what was to be believed and preached among them.

Due to this limitation of Galatians 1, we do not have a generalized rejection or assessment of what Christians were preaching.

Galatians 2-5:4 reveals it all to us. I'm sure these three plus chapters will be considered later.

 

[Red Baker]

This is not true Scripture would not claim this.

Then you immediately added:

we are dead due to the wage of sin, which means as long as the wage of sin is applied. we are dead.

The removal or the forgiveness of sin is called justification.

which means justification MUST precede regeneration.

This is a very confused two statements by you. I said:

It is the scriptures that puts regeneration before man's ability to hear, see, and understand truth. Jesus Christ taught this very truth.

Correct me if I'm not following you correctly. I made the statement above and then you came back and said "this is not true the scriptures would not claim this," then you seemly agree with what I said verbatim. So, which is it? Moving on.....

But you can not stop here. When nicodemus asked us HOW one is born again.

Jesus makes it clear. Just as moses lifted the serpent. he must be lifted up so that all who believe will never perish, but have live (regeneration) this life being eternal

Jesus did explain the new birth but totally different than the way you think. Verses 15,16 of John 3, is not how one is born again, not even close. Those scriptures are "a declaration of a bible truth," that the person that believes shall not perish, but have everlasting life ~ believing not being the means but the evidence of one that possess eternal life. The new birth is explained in verses 5-8. I would be more than happy to go into details of John 3:1-8 at your request, no problem to prove the new birth is one by the Spirit of God alone, coming and leaving without even knowing whence He came, nor when He left, leaving only the evidences that it did take place.

This is kind of boastful here..

You have a right to your opinion, but God knows I labor to put pride far from me, though at more times that I care to admit, I do see it working in my members which makes me ashamed of myself.

 

[Jim]

We are not made righteous by believing, but our believing proves that we have passed from death unto life through our Lord Jesus Christ. Agreeing with such scriptures as John 5:24; 1st John 5:1, etc.

You are almost right on this. We are not made righteous at all. We are imputed the righteousness of God. We are declared righteous. Paul later in Chapter 4 says that our belief in God, our faith in God, is counted to us as righteousness. Our faith is credited to us as righteousness. It is by our believing in God that we have passed from death unto life. It is by and through our faith in Christ that we are born again, that we, who were once dead in trespasses and sins are made alive together with Christ.

 

[Red Baker]

You are almost right on this. We are not made righteous at all. We are imputed the righteousness of God. We are declared righteous.

Jim, you know that I know justification does not make us righteous...yes, God's righteousness is without question imputed and that without works on our part in which we have an active part in. God's righteousness was secured for his elect by Jesus Christ our surety. This is the sum of the pure gospel of the grace of God revealed in the scriptures through the gospel when it is preached in it purest form. Which in our day, we very seldom hear.

Regeneration is what makes us truly righteous by God created a new man within us during/at the new birth, which man, alone has the power to see, hear, and believe.

Paul later in Chapter 4 says that our belief in God, our faith in God, is counted to us as righteousness. Our faith is credited to us as righteousness.

Jim, you are prompting another gospel. Our faith is a work that even at our most faithful time of trusting God has sin mixed with it, which makes it unacceptable for Justification in a legal sense. The law demands perfection in thought, word, and deed from conception to death in order to make it a perfect offering to God for him to pass over us in His judgement against sin. Jesus Christ alone was a Lamb without spot, or blemish.

I have address Romans 4:3,5,6,9,22, and 24 several times for you, but will do so for other who may have never heard. Looking at Galatians 3:6, which reads:

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.​

This is the most popular Bible quotation (Gen 15:6; Rom 4:3,5,6,9,22,24; Gal 3:6; Jas 2:23).

Paul declared New Testament worship of Christ to be comparable to Abraham’s worship. The adverbial phrase, even as, means that there is a very strong comparison to be seen. Paul has been mentioning faith over and over, and Abraham is the greatest example of it. The Galatians stood by faith (2:16; 3:1-5); God approved Abraham by faith (Gen 15:6).

Why is Abraham so important? For very good reasons in opposing the legalism of Judaizers. All the Jews recognized Abraham as the great friend of God, inheritor of promises, and father of the nation, in whom they took great confidence (Matt 3:9; John 8:33; Ex 3:6). For those trusting Abraham, he was a man approved and commended by God for faith. For those trusting circumcision, Abraham was declared righteous before it (Rom 4:9-12). For those trusting Law, Abram was righteous 430 years before (Rom 4:13-16; Gal 3:17). What did Abraham believe? God promised him a son and a multitudinous seed (Gen 15:6).

Question: Did Abraham call forth faith in order to be justified and made righteous by God at this time?

Jim, is where we greatly differ from those who preach another gospel and even from those who are just confused:

Many hold conditional justification ~ faith is the human condition for righteousness.

Some good, sincere folks hold instrumental justification ~ faith is the instrument receiving righteousness. We deny both as being heretical notions, for our faith does not affect legal justification.

The text says God accepted Abraham’s faith and counted it as evidence for righteousness, which is how we understand it: our faith is the spiritual evidence and fruit of salvation.

The difference is significant – is legal justification conditional, or is it unconditional? Is faith the means of righteousness before God, or is it only the evidence of righteousness?

Consider: Abraham had believed God and his promises and trusted Him obediently long before this minor event (Gen 12:1-4; Heb 11:8; Gen 12:7,8; 13:4,14-18; 14:17-24).

If this event was the conditional or instrumental cause of Abraham’s justification, then he was a condemned pagan in his previous acts of worship, which God joyfully accepted!

Jim, did Melchizedek bless Abram as a condemned sinner on his way to the lake of fire (Gen 14:18-20)? Before Abraham could get started believing, God had already accepted him (Gen 15:1)!

Jim, if this event was the conditional or instrumental cause of Abraham’s justification, then the shish-ka-bob javelin act of Phinehas was his condition or instrument (Ps 106:30-31)!

Is it an act of faith that justifies? A life of faith? Or only while you have faith? Or what?

It is by and through our faith in Christ that we are born again, that we, who were once dead in trespasses and sins are made alive together with Christ.

I may address this in a separate post.

 

[Jim]

Jim, you know that I know justification does not make us righteous...yes, God's righteousness is without question imputed and that without works on our part in which we have an active part in. God's righteousness was secured for his elect by Jesus Christ our surety. This is the sum of the pure gospel of the grace of God revealed in the scriptures through the gospel when it is preached in it purest form. Which in our day, we very seldom hear.

Regeneration is what makes us truly righteous by God created a new man within us during/at the new birth, which man, alone has the power to see, hear, and believe.

Jim, you are prompting another gospel. Our faith is a work that even at our most faithful time of trusting God has sin mixed with it, which makes it unacceptable for Justification in a legal sense. The law demands perfection in thought, word, and deed from conception to death in order to make it a perfect offering to God for him to pass over us in His judgement against sin. Jesus Christ alone was a Lamb without spot, or blemish.

I have address Romans 4:3,5,6,9,22, and 24 several times for you, but will do so for other who may have never heard. Looking at Galatians 3:6, which reads:

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.​

This is the most popular Bible quotation (Gen 15:6; Rom 4:3,5,6,9,22,24; Gal 3:6; Jas 2:23).

Paul declared New Testament worship of Christ to be comparable to Abraham’s worship. The adverbial phrase, even as, means that there is a very strong comparison to be seen. Paul has been mentioning faith over and over, and Abraham is the greatest example of it. The Galatians stood by faith (2:16; 3:1-5); God approved Abraham by faith (Gen 15:6).

Why is Abraham so important? For very good reasons in opposing the legalism of Judaizers. All the Jews recognized Abraham as the great friend of God, inheritor of promises, and father of the nation, in whom they took great confidence (Matt 3:9; John 8:33; Ex 3:6). For those trusting Abraham, he was a man approved and commended by God for faith. For those trusting circumcision, Abraham was declared righteous before it (Rom 4:9-12). For those trusting Law, Abram was righteous 430 years before (Rom 4:13-16; Gal 3:17). What did Abraham believe? God promised him a son and a multitudinous seed (Gen 15:6).

Question: Did Abraham call forth faith in order to be justified and made righteous by God at this time?

Jim, is where we greatly differ from those who preach another gospel and even from those who are just confused:

Many hold conditional justification ~ faith is the human condition for righteousness.

Some good, sincere folks hold instrumental justification ~ faith is the instrument receiving righteousness. We deny both as being heretical notions, for our faith does not affect legal justification.

The text says God accepted Abraham’s faith and counted it as evidence for righteousness, which is how we understand it: our faith is the spiritual evidence and fruit of salvation.

The difference is significant – is legal justification conditional, or is it unconditional? Is faith the means of righteousness before God, or is it only the evidence of righteousness?

Consider: Abraham had believed God and his promises and trusted Him obediently long before this minor event (Gen 12:1-4; Heb 11:8; Gen 12:7,8; 13:4,14-18; 14:17-24).

If this event was the conditional or instrumental cause of Abraham’s justification, then he was a condemned pagan in his previous acts of worship, which God joyfully accepted!

Jim, did Melchizedek bless Abram as a condemned sinner on his way to the lake of fire (Gen 14:18-20)? Before Abraham could get started believing, God had already accepted him (Gen 15:1)!

Jim, if this event was the conditional or instrumental cause of Abraham’s justification, then the shish-ka-bob javelin act of Phinehas was his condition or instrument (Ps 106:30-31)!

Is it an act of faith that justifies? A life of faith? Or only while you have faith? Or what?

I may address this in a separate post.

Red, you haven't shown that a single thing I posted in reply #37 is not the truth. The fact of Abraham's faith being credited to him as righteousness is absolutely true. Nothing that you have said in the above post can change that.

And verse 5 in Romans 4 shows that you are misguided in your view of works. "his faith is counted as righteousness"

 

[Red Baker]

Red, you haven't shown that a single thing I posted in reply #37 is not the truth. The fact of Abraham's faith being credited to him as righteousness is absolutely true. Nothing that you have said in the above post can change that.

And verse 5 in Romans 4 shows that you are misguided in your view of works. "his faith is counted as righteousness"

Jim, Once again..............

"His faith is counted for righteousness"

As I said above, the identical language used of Abraham (Gen 15:6) and Phinehas (Ps 106:31) is used here for those who show their righteousness by faith in God and His Son Jesus Christ (Romans 4:23-25).

Faith is the first evidence of righteousness granted by God for numerous reasons.

1. Faith is the consequence of bestowed righteousness through Jesus Christ (2nd Peter 1:1).
2. Faith in God from men without understanding by nature is evidence indeed (Romans 3:11).
3. Faith in God from men that never sought God by nature is evidence indeed (Romans 3:11).
4. Faith in God from men that had no fear of God before their eyes is evidence (Romans 3:18).