He only willing to save those that believe? Those He k own will mot believe He does not want to save them?
Understanding........
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
- Start date
He desires the salvation of all. He will save all who believe.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Not only that, but He makes no effort to get the unbelievers to believe. He's a wimpy god who has no influence over those he "loves".
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Do you have influence over those you love?
Men desire what they can not have. God isn't wimpy because He refuses to overpower all opposition. Such nonsense comes from your own desires.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Makers perfect sense. You're deflecting.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Adam knew God. So did Adam's children. Even Caan spoke directly with God. How many in this forum can say the same...
Caan knew God. Many of his descendents did not. The same with Abel. However, God has repeatedly sent others to declare God to their own brothers in Adam.
Those that possessed such power were rejected and murdered. Anyone can chose to live a life regardless of clear evidence to the contrary.
The problem was easy to see on TV in the '80s with all the self-proclaimed faith Healers. I believe that's pretty much died out.
But I still have a few boxes but miracle prayer cloths in my garage that I'll let go cheap.
I've always wanted to say that.
Jesus said.....Many shall come in my name....... Do not believe them....
God is ambiguous for a reason. He seeks "such" to worship him.......
So you don't understand it either
Exactly. God has done all He is going to do. He has made His provision the rest is up to you. It's not necessary to pray to God for your unsaved neighbor because He has done all He intends to do.
So Christ's death is only effectual for some, for those to whom it was intended.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
For the chosen. Because it doesn't say "many are called but few choose".
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
So which is it. Are many called or not?
You've been insisting that God doesn't call anyone but the Elect.
Which is it? If you were a seasoned Calvinist. You would already know this argument fails.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Quote me on that. Don't pull things out of your posterior.
Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Let me help. Omniscience. God knows all there is to logically know. He knows the past, present and future exhaustively.
HE wants many things:
- a Bride
- a holy family
- a heavenly home free of evil
To achieve these things in truth HE had to give us a free will because only by our free will can we truly be a Bride, holy, and free from evil in our hearts since a stone with no capacity to sin is not considered sinless, only a person who chooses to never sin can ever be truly called sinless.
So by the very nature of HIS wants HE had to allow that which HE did not want or HE could not achieve what he wanted...
I think HE obviously had a good long look at the possible cost of no one accepting HIM and HIS gospel by faith as the worst against losing those who decided to reject putting their faith in HIM in favour of those who did want to live with HIM in HIS heaven as HIS bride... I'm pretty sure that if only ONE PERSON chose to have faith in HIM and HIS gospel, that HE would have thought it was worth it.
HE is not impotent: HE has created both a Family for HIMself of all who have chosen to enter that family by their own free will because they looked over HIS plans and found them to be good for them personally
AND
HE instituted a method to keep HIS heavenly family free from the predations of those who rejected HIS eternal purpose so we could live in heavenly peace.
When He says HE wants all people to be saved HE is saying two things:
1. that HE did not create anyone evi or unable to fulfill HIS desire for a Bride
2. that their ending in hell was by their own choice to think that HIS warnings of rejecting HIM as their God and saviour would bring them happiness
3. and that their free will decisions to rebuke HIM as a liar and a false god are sacrosanct, unable to be change by HIM for any reason or how can it be true that they chose by their free will?
Giving us the choice by our free will is not impotence, since HE empowered everyone to choose their own fate free from any coercion from HIM.
On what basis do you think most of HIS creation is going to hell? Because you think our creation is restricted to men and most men are going to hell??
Earth is a prison planet for Satanic demons and the sinful elect, Rev 12:4-49. ONLY sinners are SOWN, not created, in the world, Matt 13:36-39, so yes most sinners are reprobate because the few elect are sown into the world a few at any time which skews the numbers.
He had to give you a free will? Who says?
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."
"For many are called but few are chosen."
NOT if this means that HE knew who would end in hell before HE created them but created them anyway... Until a definition of omniscience can deal with this, it is man made, not from GOD.
The understanding of reality: a forced marriage, love, holiness or sinfulness is not a true marriage, true love, true holiness nor a true sinfulness.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
God wouldn't do it because when man does it it usually doesn't work. Now that's a solid argument. /s
