So then according to your theology God determined man to sin
Understanding........
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
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Yup, hence the term "determinist".
What would be your alternative? Sin is a creative opps? God had no idea? He created the conditions for sin but it was a 50/50 proposition?
You hint at not having proof...yet when I do quote scripture when applicable, you deny my interpretation and scorn my pov.
I have no proof but I have faith, an unproven hope, that the Spirit who brought me to Christ was the HOLY SPIRIT.
I have no proof but I have faith, an unproven hope, that the same Holy Spirit has led me to the PCE interpretation of the scriptures as truth.
I have no proof but I have faith, an unproven hope, that while I may be misunderstanding what I am being taught, that pce theology is a far far better explanation of our creation and fall, fitting better with scripture and with HIS attributes of being perfectly loving, righteous and just.
The flim flam of exegesis is that for anyone to get the meaning of a verse from the verse without any input from their mindset and unfiltered by existing ideas is on the order of Paul's conversion as a bright light and hearing GOD's voice. Every interpretation of a verse is eisegesis, the fitting of the verse into previously accepted definitions. My eisegesis has been led by the Person I have put my faith in as the Holy Spirit.
I have no faith in a GOD who must work by doublethink delusions...
So you modify the definition of free will to make your theology fit and I modify the accepted pagan definition of omniscience to make a fit...so it goes.
I did not give a definition of free will. How do you know I modified it?
There is a pagan definition of omniscience and a Greek definition of omniscience and there different?
Okay. LOL Whatever you say. This conversation is clearly above your pay grade.
Rockson
Well-known member
Sorry P, but to accept that one has to twist their mind around backwards where such a way of thinking cannot be recognized as neither reasonable nor rational in the slightest. I trust and hope someday you'll give up what I'd call your meaningless gibberish and save yourself from your lunacy and absurdity. Honestly and sincerely this is something you need to consider to do.
To readers I'd this this reflects pretty well what FREE, or freedom would have to mean....."not determined by anything beyond its own nature or being : choosing or capable of choosing for itself"
Now bring me to any court of law and an unbiased judge and jury would agree with me that's what freedom or FREE would mean. It would mean that for it would have to mean that. I'm sorry and not meaning to offend but our Calvinist friends here would be laughed out of court for even trying to put forth that it would mean anything else . When some things have to be they have to be. Ordaining the actions and decisions of another screams out that it certainly must be the opposite of what free will or freedom means.
No offence P, but fortunately God's wisdom is big enough to know that it goes against his character to even think about pulling off what you'd like him to do.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
"Free will" in the libertarian sense doesn't exist. If it did, then you could choose to obey the law perfectly in thought and deed. But nobody can do that except Jesus. Alternatively, a person may be free to decide to murder his best friend for jollies, but he's not going to do it, because he's not so inclined. We choose according to our strongest inclination at any given time.
I have no issue with that definition. Yet God ordained whatever comes to pass including your free choices.
What I would like Him to do? That's the best reply you have?
Sure it is. I can determine you Feely act in a certain way. If I can then why can't God?
Rockson
Well-known member
Sorry but there is no such things as YET God if you agree with the definition I provided. You either believe it or you don't. You either believe you have free will or you don't. It's much like when Jesus said I wish you were either hot or cold. You can't be hot and cold and have God say that makes sense.
Rockson
Well-known member
How? Give me an example.
I just said I agree with it. You simply wish to argue?
I believe I have free will yet my choices are determined. That are neither forced nor coerced.
Sure. Let's say I have determined you to take your shoes off. You refuse. I yell hey your shoes are on fire and you quickly take them off. Did you freely take them off? You certainly did not have to right?
If you determine me I am not freely doing it
but God does not determine all things
James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.
Jer. 32:35 They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
Is. 30:1 “Ah, stubborn children,” declares the LORD,
“who carry out a plan, but not mine,
and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit,
that they may add sin to sin;
Gal. 5:7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you.
1Cor. 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
1Cor. 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
Rom. 11:23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
