Understanding God Plurality as one Person
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101G
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GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply. second read post #209 and post #167 which hold the keys to understanding God's Plurality. God is a Plurality of, of, of, HIMSELF. and the Hebrew term H259 ECHAD, and the Greek term G343 ALLOS explain this as you say, logically.
here is the LOGIC of both the Hebrew term H259 ECHAD, and the Greek term G343 ALLOS... EQUALLY SHARED vs SEPARATION and the DISTINCTION of Person(s). AND THIS logic IS RIGH IN THE SCRIPTURES THEMSELVES. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." God's OWN ARM is he himself. .... and no one's else. and the proof is in Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not." Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted." Isaiah 53:5 "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." Isaiah 53:6 "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."
if one read the chapter, one will understand this is speaking of the Christ/the Messiah....... WHO IS GOD'S "OWN ARM". in Isaiah 63:5 spoken of. God's OWN ARM is he God himself SHARED EQUALLY in flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') MAKE EMPTY state.
there is the LOGIC in daylight. he is the EQUAL SHARE of himself in flesh. his OWN IMAGE according to Genesis 1:26 & 27.
if you have any further question, just ask.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
"The issue here is both are stated to be the first and the last" if this is true, the bible said this, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." if .... "BOTH" are God, (the first and the last), as you said, then you have two GODS, and that's Polytheism by definition.
101G
Nope Jesus is not another God but he is the same God/being
But have you forgotten your own claims
"Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort"
that along with your statement of equal shares of God shows you cannot consistently claim God is but one person
That barn door has been closed
civic
Well-known member
yes indeed the door was slammed permanently closed, locked and sealed.
Yep he has two equal shares of God.yes indeed the door was slammed permanently closed, locked and sealed.
e v e
Well-known member
you lept to a conclusion that His arm / hand is He... so... just no.
It was Christ
and quite clearly more than one person was involved
Isaiah 53:2–6 (KJV 1900) — 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, And as a root out of a dry ground: He hath no form nor comeliness; And when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; A man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: And we hid as it were our faces from him; He was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, And carried our sorrows: Yet we did esteem him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: The chastisement of our peace was upon him; And with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
e v e
Well-known member
not God tortured Him... that there is simply not .
Never said it was and that was not the subject
It was Christ
and quite clearly more than one person was involved
Isaiah 53:2–6 (KJV 1900) — 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, And as a root out of a dry ground: He hath no form nor comeliness; And when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; A man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: And we hid as it were our faces from him; He was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, And carried our sorrows: Yet we did esteem him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: The chastisement of our peace was upon him; And with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.
Who said the Lord Jesus is "ANOTHER" God beside you? what you need to do is learn what G243 Allos means, as well as H259 ECHAD means, and you want make an IGNORANT statement, "Nope Jesus is not another God but he is the same God/being" LEARN WHAT "ANOTHER" IN GREEK MEANS... OK.
now 101G will teach you again. using the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, LISTEN CAREFULLY, [ 1,,G243 G2087 ,allos heteros ] have a difference in meaning, which despite a tendency to be lost, is to be observed in numerous passages. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort;" heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort." SEE THE DIFFERENCE NOW? not "another" that is separate, and distinct from him... (Oh my), no, but the EQUAL SHARE of, of, of, HIMSELF .... (same person).
Christ promised to send "another Comforter" (allos, "another like Himself," not heteros), see John 14:16.
see, you have no clue that the COMFORTER CAME TWICE......did you? no. you might want to STUDY up on the COMFORTER. and who he REALLY IS.
101G.
101G
101G
Well-known member
EVE, do you KNOW what the ARM or HAND of God is? no Leap, nor Jump to any conclusion, don't need to. READ the SCRIPTURES, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." his "OWN ARM?" yes, he HIMSELF in flesh. eve, READ please.
101G
101G
Well-known member
@TomL, @civic, @eve, @Fred
all of you cannot grasp the foundation of the Godhead in simplicity. NOT two Gods, not two or three persons.
one said, "But have you forgotten your own claims, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort"
NO, that's FACT. a numerical difference is First and Last, or Beginning and End, Root and Offspring.... or LORD and Lord. now the clear understanding of "THE ARM OF GOD". anthropomorphism. meaning the attribution of human form or behavior given to a deity to understand its actions, here it means in Power, (the "authority” and the “ability”, or “might”, to do something). and God demonstrated this as his "OWN ARM IN FLESH". Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." his "OWN ARM?" yes, he HIMSELF in flesh.
let's see this ARM of FLESH in the bible clearly. in 2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: 8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah"
did anyone get it? an ARM OF FLESH was the invading king POWER, or his ARMY. arm means POWER, king Sennacherib king of Assyria his POWER was in his "ARM", meaning his fighting men/Army. God's POWER was in his "OWN ARM", the Christ an army of ONE. why you think the Christ was EMPOWER at his Baptism? to give him the POWER. the scripture is correct, God was in, In, in, Christ. his own ARM. not some separate and distinct person. THAT WAS GOD HIMSELF IN THAT FLESH.
now to eliminate these three person mistake again. was not there a "spirit" in that flesh and blood body before the Spirit descended upon him? was not God the spirit was not in that body before the Holy Spirit descended and empower him? so, question time, who was that spirit in that body at birth? 101G sure hope you say God, and if you say the person Son, 101G's next question, "How much of the ONE Spirit was in that body before God the Spirit descended on him?"
next time, eliminating the titles Father, and Son as persons.
101G.
all of you cannot grasp the foundation of the Godhead in simplicity. NOT two Gods, not two or three persons.
THE HAND or the ARM of God.
Let's get the basic down.one said, "But have you forgotten your own claims, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort"
NO, that's FACT. a numerical difference is First and Last, or Beginning and End, Root and Offspring.... or LORD and Lord. now the clear understanding of "THE ARM OF GOD". anthropomorphism. meaning the attribution of human form or behavior given to a deity to understand its actions, here it means in Power, (the "authority” and the “ability”, or “might”, to do something). and God demonstrated this as his "OWN ARM IN FLESH". Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." his "OWN ARM?" yes, he HIMSELF in flesh.
let's see this ARM of FLESH in the bible clearly. in 2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: 8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah"
did anyone get it? an ARM OF FLESH was the invading king POWER, or his ARMY. arm means POWER, king Sennacherib king of Assyria his POWER was in his "ARM", meaning his fighting men/Army. God's POWER was in his "OWN ARM", the Christ an army of ONE. why you think the Christ was EMPOWER at his Baptism? to give him the POWER. the scripture is correct, God was in, In, in, Christ. his own ARM. not some separate and distinct person. THAT WAS GOD HIMSELF IN THAT FLESH.
now to eliminate these three person mistake again. was not there a "spirit" in that flesh and blood body before the Spirit descended upon him? was not God the spirit was not in that body before the Holy Spirit descended and empower him? so, question time, who was that spirit in that body at birth? 101G sure hope you say God, and if you say the person Son, 101G's next question, "How much of the ONE Spirit was in that body before God the Spirit descended on him?"
next time, eliminating the titles Father, and Son as persons.
101G.
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You are refuted by your own words
Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort"
that is two the same
Your claim of two equal shares of God gives the same results
e v e
Well-known member
So you believe in a multiplicity of Gods and/or deny historic Christian doctrine?
e v e
Well-known member
God is one being and our only God. And no other god comes before Him correct? So do not include me in your correction. I'm not 'vatican-trinitarian'.
God has with Him as His core:
His feminine counterpart who is His Spirit,
and Christ His Son . His Spirit and son are
in Him and with Him, and since having
his same nature , are deity. Yet Beings.
and soon He will have again :
all His sons in His image represented by Christ,
and all His daughters in the image of His spirit
- all who fell at eden (what God said to adam
would be death*) who will return to Him
and be restored to our land eden paradise
which is His nature = life.
and after these 144k with Christ restore
eden paradise (needing to be
because it was left desolated*)
they will return to this current earth with Christ
and witness as the two witnesses to
left behind Jacob which
is most of modern Christianity
regardless evangelical or
any other sect.
* man was the purpose and caretaker
of eden and it was our home...
even starting simply with
now man was no longer
there = desolation.
* death = where we are now cosmologically..
the current 'nature' ...
it is not God's ...
e v e
Well-known member
All that matters is the first commandment so you are mistaken and barking up a vatican tree.
As for historic christian doctrine= tradition. True i do not follow tradition. I listen to God.
Is that an affirmation you are not a Christian?
and it is not just the Vatican the Eastern Orthodox hold the same
